Thanks Aphelion. DJ or AO? Sorry is there somehere i can check up on the terminology on the site.

Hi all. Need to pop out now for a few hours but will be back later on, so please please please keep the wisdom flowing! Am going out with a good friend who was seperated from his longterm girlfriend (12yrs)for 6 months. They are now back together and happier than ever. Am going to talk to him about their situ and mine. See if i can use any of his info in my plan. Will report back later.

DJ = Disrespectful Judgement.

AO = Angry Outburst.

These Love Busters (LBs), especially DJs, are possibly the most destructive acts one can do inside a marriage. IMO, they are worse than a missing EN or three. Missing ENs sets a stage for adultery. LBs actively push spouses apart.

LBs are horrible. They cause the recipient to act other than in the best interest of the M. They also create lowered expectations which is insidious all by itself.

Read the MB main site articles.

A BS is especially prone to AOs for a long time after DDay. It's natural. But remember, anger is a secondary emotion. It is based on fear, embarrassment, betrayal, broken heart, resentment... Spend your energy working on yourself and meeting her ENs (both are Plan A). Repair these emotions and the anger will be easier to control.

Keep your goal in sight at all times.

With prayers,

Hi guys. Just had a terrible moment of weakness and regret it. My wife asked me if she could have the car for the weekend to see relatives that live down south (still 200 miles from OM). I agreed and said the break will do her good. Trying to appease her. Only thing is i wonder if OM will meet her there. 200 miles prob seems nothing to you folks but in UK that is ****** of a journey! I am worried now, after all i said i still doubt my feelings. I have text her asking if there is still NC with OM but as its 00:30 here not expecting a reply. Just so bloody annoyed at myself for doing it. What if the answer is yes, i feel like a fool. If it's no do i give up? I don't want to but if she is still in contact what can i do when her heart is full of him? PLEASE REPLY GUYS I NEED YOU RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!

put a UPS on your vehicle

Pep means a GPS I think.

DO NOT TRUST HER

DUH

Don’t despair. You are not a fool. You may be fooled by a WW, but you are definitely not a fool. I have never met a BH who was a fool on MB. We just felt that way at times.

You would not believe the number of times I was fooled by FWW. Some so blatant and transparent I now wonder what planet I was on at the time.

Feelings are only feelings. Feelings are neither right nor wrong. They just are. So feel whatever you feel. Write them down in a journal if you want. Helps dissipate them. A journal also gives you a series of benchmarks you can read back through to detect progress. This crap gets so overwhelming it is difficult to gauge our own progress.


So, the question is what next?

Stay in Plan A. Do not LB.

I think it is acceptable for you to tell her this makes you very uncomfortable. You can certainly tell her your concerns and your feelings about it.

You can ask for the truth. But, give her a safe place to tell it. Do not make it scary for her to tell you the truth.

Maybe you can call her relatives later and see if she got there OK. Demonstrate you care about her safety. And again right before she is to come back (so she does not have time to get lost and wander 200 km out of the way).


Stay on plan, evo. There are many hands on your shoulder.

ed: Expose to these relatives, asap. Ask for help in saving your marriage. Ask them to keep OM away or tell you if he shows up. Can't hurt. Well, it will make WW mad, of course, but the benefits of such exposure far outweigh any WW anger.


With prayers,

LOl, Pep, I'm tempted to change my sigline to this.

ups? do you mean some kind of tracking device? If so i don't know where i can get one from in such a short space of time. i could check net and go get one tomorrow. Thats ok but if she goes to planned destination how do i know if OM meets her there????

GPS

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaa

No, Pep really meant a trustworthy and efficient guy in a brown suit. Put him in your car. He delivers the goods.

That's what I heard.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

LA

Morning update. Spoke to wife today and she said he sent an occasinal text to see how she was but she replied OK thanks and left it at that. She never initiated the first text it always came from him. Not had one for 2 to 3 weeks tho. As no way of checking i am going to have to believe her. She also has to transfer 3/4 of her monthly salary to my account today to cover her half of household bills so this is going to be a great shock to her! Might work in my favour a little.
This is going to seem strange and i probably need some help here guys as i have a cunning plan! Before we seperated i used to go on holiday to the Alps with some friends snowboarding. I had decided that this year i was going to give it a miss and have a holiday with the wife as we needed to spend some time together alone and we always took seperate holidays, i like the snow, she likes the sun. Thought this would show her that i was not a total selfish pig. However when we seperated she made it clear that it was over. Feeling hurt and rejected i could see no point in trying to change her mind (till i started reading lots and lots of posts and advice on here). An opportunity arose to go on a trip with some friends, so i took it as i needed to get away and take my mind off things. Going on the holiday is me, my best mate and his wife (also a good friend to the wife), another friend and his girlfriend, a friends son and a disabled friend who we help "buddy" for on the slopes. So to cut out the details i asked the wife the other day if she could move back home for this week to look after our dog and 3 cats save kennel charges etc. She instantly agreed. I feel this is my opportunity to lever her to stay when i return. She has got a foot back in the door i just need to keep her here so i can really get to work on plan A.
So question time
1. While on holiday shall i go for no contact or call daily and tell her what a great time we're all having and check up on how she and the animals and the home is?
2. When i get back what the best tactics to make her feel like staying??
3. As it's a tough day for her today shall i send some flowers to work or will she feel i am rubing her face in it after she has paid me a lot of money for me to spend some on some flowers?

God i love this girl and it really breaks my heart being apart yet seemingly so close.

All answers would be most apprreciated

Thanking you in advance

OK, I'm gonna jump in for a bit...

EVO, have you given any more thought on how to prove/disprove the NC issue? It seems to me that there are still steps you can take to figure out what's going on. First off, getting a GPS (not UPS...I never trust a man dressed in poop brown) installed in your car, if you still feel you should let her borrow it. Additionally, go ahead and install a digital voice activated recorder in it as well, so that you can hear any conversations that take place in it during her trip. See if she calls OM, talks about meeting him, or actually meets with him in the car.

On her cell phone bill...I don't know about Europe, but in the US most companies ALSO provide online invoice access. Is the account still in her/your name, but the paper bills going to her current address? If so, can you access them online instead?

I know you'd mentioned she'd used the cell to text with him...and don't recall much about computer use. Does she have access to one where she's at? If so, could you GUESS at what her login/passwords might be, and what IM/email accounts she has/might have? I was able to do this with my wife's accounts during HER EA.

Do you have someone who could 'spy' for you when she's at her relative's town this weekend? Someone you can trust, that could see if she's spending time with someone who's NOT family?

Have you exposed her EA to her family? Do they know about the WHOLE situation? Would THEY be willing to assist you in ensuring that she's just visiting them while she's there?

I know this is tough, but the bottom line is that you HAVE to take some kind of steps to save your marriage. Right now, your wife continues to sound like she's still wayward...like she's still emotionally invested in someone other than you. First thing to do is to PROVE that this is the case (or isn't the case) so that you know what next steps to take. Continue with the plan A action...including verifying NC.

Make sense?

Hello Owl and thanks for your kind advice. Nice of you to check in and offer words of wisdom.
It will be very hard for me to prove NC. I was toying with the idea of a recorder, will look in to that one.
Her family here are aware of the situ and are all hoping we sort it out and are not taking sides. I never really had much to do with her distant family that she is visiting tho, and have no contact numbers for them but will get on the case and ask her F if he can help me out with numbers etc. I do believe she is going down to get away from here for a break not anything else tho, but it does play with your mind.
She has no e mail accounts and has no pc so that isn't a problem. She doesn't even know how to e-mail!
Her phone bill goes direct to her new address so impossible to get access to that and she doesn't have itemised billing so can't check records.
I will continue with plan A and do you think i should contact her at weekend and this way i can snoop thru innocent conversation about who's she seen and check it out??
Again Owl thanks for checking in and keep all the good advice coming. Sounds like you were in the same boat. Did you get sorted out?

EVO- First off...I am NOT wise! LOL...ask around...they'll tell you the truth!

I was in a similar situation...my wife met OM online, and was set to go live with him when confronted on D-day, even though they'd never met in person. And yes, we're coming up on three years of recovery since d-day this spring. So we got our situation sorted out.

Make sure you explain to her family WHY you're asking for help...that you love her, and you're not trying to hurt her...that what you're working towards is fixing your marriage with her. That might help them 'choose sides' as needed.

I'd say that if you think you can pull off that snooping call, you might consider it. Be careful not to be too overbearing about it tho. Keep up the plan A. That means keep working on making improvements in yourself, keep working on meeting what emotional needs you can for your wife...it pays off. Often your WW will see the changes, even when she doesn't realize it.

My other word of caution would be to protect yourself and your assets as best you can in this. I don't know anything about divorce laws in the UK, so on that you'll have to work with a lawyer to make sure that you're protected if she files on you.

Last thought...the impression that your plan A efforts should leave your wife with is pretty straightforward. What she should see from all of this is that you're still someone that she would want to be with (by meeting her EN's and working to improve yourself), that you're willing to fight for your marriage (by exposure and pushing hard for NC to be enforced), and that your marriage can be recovered...but that you're not willing to be a doormat to get to that point. Women don't love someone they don't respect...so if you let her walk all over you and your feelings, you're actually HURTING your chances for recovery more than if you take a stand when you need to. Set up boundaries for yourself and your marriage...and enforce them when she crosses them.

Make sense to you?

Evo,
I want you to know that I am still around and am reading your posts.... I just fear saying the wrong thing, thus have been keeping quiet.... But I want you to know I am praying for both you and your wife. Read your questions and answer them the way you are thinking about proceeding at this point... maybe that way these guys can help correct any wrong thinkings you are having as to what you are considering.....

1. While on holiday shall i go for no contact or call daily and tell her what a great time we're all having and check up on how she and the animals and the home is?
2. When i get back what the best tactics to make her feel like staying??
3. As it's a tough day for her today shall i send some flowers to work or will she feel i am rubing her face in it after she has paid me a lot of money for me to spend some on some flowers?

THIS IS SO ON TARGET CANT EVEN EXPLAIN!!!! LISTEN TO HIM... HE IS A VERY VERY WISE OWL!!!!!!

I did the following in similar situations while FWW and I lived apart after D-Day 2:

1. While on holiday shall I go for no contact or call daily and tell her what a great time we're all having and check up on how she and the animals and the home is?

IMO, call every other day or so. You do not want to appear clingy. But you do want to let her know she could be there too, if she chose to come home. But, don’t rub her nose in how much fun you are having (or not). Just say it’s great and wish you were here kind of thing. How much more fun it would be if she were there.

2. When I get back what the best tactic to make her feel like staying??

Plan A like there IS a tomorrow. No LBs. Keep relationship talks to a minimum, until she is ready to work on recovery. If you or she absolutely must dialogue on something relationship wise, schedule a time (half hr at most), have one topic at a time and stick to it.

3. As it's a tough day for her today shall I send some flowers to work or will she feel I am rubbing her face in it after she has paid me a lot of money for me to spend some on some flowers?

Hard one to call. Depends on her. Sending flowers looks clingy, under the circumstances. But, if it’s the kind of gesture she loves then maybe. Maybe just a note or a card saying something appropriate? I defer to the FWWs who read this thread on this one. What say you, LITW?

4: Is she still in contact?

Yes. TMs are contact. They maintain a long distance EA very efficiently. She is not withdrawing yet. And, she is minimizing.

5. Do you think I should contact her at weekend and this way I can snoop thru innocent conversation about who's she seen and check it out?

Yes, sort of. Be careful. Make the conversations about her and her relatives as much as possible.


“I have a cunning plan!” Hah, one of my favorite lines from Black Adder! Wait, as I recall, none of those cunning plans work out. I know, use the Harley MB plans instead. Less cunning, more reliable.

So, please read the articles on the main MB site. Get Surviving An Affair (SAA) and His Needs Her Needs (HNHN) and study. Also read, as if you have any spare time, After the Affair, Private Lies, Torn Asunder and Not Just Friends. Final exams are approaching fast!

Evo, a certain amount of loving detachment is required in this stage of affair busting. Do not waste much time running around trying to catch her up. Yes, it would be better to know the whole truth. Yes, it would be best to know the degree of contact to 3 decimal places. Just assume there is lots of contact. Assume she is still in an affair to whatever depth. Whatever the truth is, you still need to meet her ENs. You still need to entice her back home. Spend your limited resources on learning how to communicate effectively within your marriage.

Ask her to complete the ENQ. Do yours and send it to her first if need be.

With prayers,

PS: I wish I was skiing in the Alps. But then, it’s not bad at all here right now. 3 ft new at midway as of this morning.

okay Evo... The flower thing... i didnt want to answer, but since Aphelion asked too.... this is my opinion...

Flowers have different meaning.... Im not sure if they are the same in the UK, but if they are I would suggest you send a yellow rose.... 1 or 3... no more... you can tell the florist you want something extremely simple, maybe just the rose/roses with some filler and greens.

The reason for yellow is because yellow represents:Joy, Gladness, Friendship, Delight, Promise of a new beginning, Welcome Back, Remember Me, Jealousy,and "I care"

By you choosing something extremely simple you are showing that you are thinking of her without making it something huge.... also on the card... keep it simple.... Just want you to know im here, Just want you to know im thinking about you, you are still special to me... something to those lines.... keep the "love" word out of it... she may feel that you are pushing too hard.....

Again, this is just my opinion.... Good Luck and I pray that whatever you decide God will open her heart to receive.
LITW

jeez, LITW, who knew flowers could be so complicated.

Must be why I am a guy:

"Hey, a flower. Purdy. Smells nice. Here, you want it?"

lol