LITW,

If you were evo's W in this situation what would it take for you to move back home?

Ask evo whatever you need to be able to put yourself in her shoes.

Well Evo,
You mentioned that she did fill out the EN questions.... if you are willing to share those answers so that i can understand maybe a little better where she feels her EN are not being met and which ones are hers... I may be able to have a better understanding.... I know you mentioned that she feels that you were controlling and sometimes treated her like a child, but i think the answers on the ENQ may put some puzzle pieces together.

I know for me it is really difficult when i feel my H is treating me like a kid.... it drives me nuts... i know he doesnt mean to, but it really hurts me... but honestly i had to come to grasps and realize it was not how he was treating me, but how I was choosing to internalize what he was saying. you see for me growing up i could never do anything right and nothing was ever good enough for my dad so as an adult now when someone trys to offer me ANY advice (good or bad) i go back into that little girl feeling that regardless of how hard she tried was never good enough....
If you want to share more about your wife, i can try to help but i do need a couple more puzzle pieces in order to try to figure out what it would take to get her home.

LITW

OK LITW heres the ENQ answers. One question first, is it possible to change my login name. Its while looking at ENQ web site address is at bottom of each sheet. If she checks up on the site (i don't think she would) but if she did she would know it was me by my login name and that would be disasterous. Ok ENQ results
Affection
No 4 on need for affection.
2/3 times a day for affection
Neither happy or unhappy if doesn't recieve this amount.
Evaulaution No 1
Sexual Fulfillmet.
3 on need for SF
One time per week
Neither happy or unhappy if doesn't receive
Evaulation No 0
H gives me all the sex i need but is not the way i like it.
Explanation : I have a lot lower sex drive than you. When we had sex sometimes i enjoyed it, sometimes i didn't.
Conversation
5 on need for conversation
3/4 times per day
Somewhat unhappy if doesn't receive conversational needs
Minus 1 evaluation
Not enough but like it when he does
Explaination : Not now but before if i was to talk about what i had been doing at work for example you wouldn't really listen and say to me that it would be like me talking about machinery (my job). Also when out with friends/family you would always talk about snowboarding and golf where i had no idea what you were talking about and couldn't join in.
Recreational Companionship
Need No 4
1/2 times per week
Somewhat unhappy
Evaluation minus 2
Not enough recreational companionship and when hhe tries its not the way i like it
Explaination : We have no similat interests at all and spend no time together than in the pub.
Honesty and Openness
Need = 4
All areas of honesty and openness circled
Somewhat unhappy
Evaluation : Minus 1
My spouse is not honest and open enough with me, but when he does its the way i like it.
Explanation : Haven't been honest in past which possibly makes me question alot of things said now.
Attractive spouse
Need = 3
Need physical fitness and normal weight, attractive choice of clothes, good physical hygiene.
Neither happy or unhappy if don't get above.
Evaluation = 1
Not attractive to me but when he was i like the way he achieved it.
Explaination : I don't want any Brad Pitt but i think things that have happened over time have nade you less attractive to me.
Financial Support
Need = 1
Happy not have my spouse provide support
Evaluation = 1
Explaination = Don;t expect him to support me as oth have good jobs and although he does earn good money he has liked to spend it on himself in the past
Domestic Support
Need = 0
Happy noy to have domestic support
Evaluation = 2
Explanation : Share domestic support
Family commitment
Not applicable
Admiration
Need = 5
All the time
Somewhat unhappy if don't receive it
Evaluation = minus 2
Not enough admiration but when he does it the way i like it
Ranking
1 = Admiration
2 = Affection
3 = Conversation
4 = Rec Comp
5 = Honesty

Will pop and get a copy of my ENQ, this will also help you get an insight in to me.

My comments re wifes ENQ
Affection : I always showed by W lots of affection, with hugs and kisses all day long, trouble is this was when i was at home which as we've spoke about before that wasn't as much as it should have been.
SF : As my sex drive is alot higher than W i used to pester her for sex more than i should. Like most men i would like it every day but once or twice a week would satisfy me now. Sometimes when we had sex i would not make love if you know what i mean and would be a little porn starish (hope that makes sense). Last SF New Years Eve 2006.
Conversation : I have never been very good at conversation and neither is W. We would turn on TV and that was it. When used to chat on dog walks about all sorts of things and also when went out for meals together. When in pub i would chat to guys about football, golf, snowboarding etc and she would chat to girls about girls stuff. Like she said, not now but before. When we're together now we chat about all sorts of things and i listen and take an interest when she talks about work, too little too late!
Rec Comp
She is right we have no hobbies in common. I play golf she won't even try. I snowboard, she won't try even though her best friend (my best friends W) has recently take it up so she can spend more time with her husband. I think if this had happened two or three years ago she would have tried but not sure. She used to horse ride and sometimes i would go down with her and bicycle at her side but would often get bored after a short while and cycle home.
Honesty
I haven't been honest in the past which really bugged her. I have spent money on stupid things that i or we didn't really need. I would play cards till late in the morning losing large amounts of money (up to £400) and lie to her ssaying i'd only lost say £50. On top of things she thought i was a flirt during our early years of marriage but assured me show knows i never comitted any PA or one nighters. I didn't
Attractive spouse. I must admit i am not the best catch but also not ugly. When we first met i had long blond hair and was well toned as i used to weight train 3 times a week and play sports. After being together a short while the training stopped, you know you just seem to want to spend every minute together. At that time i was 240lb and well toned. At split up time i was 228 but a little flabby round the middle. At current i am 203 and well toned again. Seperation diet sucks! I have always had good hygiene I have always liked my choice of clothes but i guess it wasn't trendy enough for W. My hair is thinning and i wear it short now bit like most 35's. I also smoke. I didn't start till i was 28 and this was a release during a previous episode in our maariage that we overcame but the smoking carried on. Big regret but do enjoy one (sad i know). She never said smoking was an issue though and didn't mind snogging an ashtray (joking)
Financial Support
AS in bit about honesty
Domestic support
We always shared domestic duties. I always nearly cooked and tended gardens and lawns, washed car.
W used to hoover, iron and clean house
Familt commitment , not applicable unfortunately as i believe if we would heve had kids i wouldn't be on here now. They would have been a great source of combined love, a conversation helper, a financial burden keeping my spending and our time apart to a minimum. We did speak about it ealry in marriage and she was ready then but i was not. For the last two years i have been asking for us to try but she did not want to (Got a feeling i am going to get ripped on this part)
Admiration.
I didn't appreciate her as much as i should have done. I would say thankyou when she did something for me or us but i would never congratulate on solving an issue at work or for accomplishing something that was a big goal of hers.

Phew, thats a long one. Have been as honest as i can be but any questions no matter how probing please feel free to ask

As promised my ENQ
Affection
Need 6
If not met very unhappy
Evaluation minus 1
Not enough but when met good
Sex
Need 4 twice per week
Somewhat unhappy when unmet
Evaluation 1
Not enough but when it was good
Conversation
4 twice per day
Neither happy or unhappy if not met
Evaluation 0
Not enough but when it was good
Rec Comp
Need 6, all the time
Somewhat unhappy if not met
Eval minus 2
Honesty
Need 6, like to share pos and neg emotional reactions to significant apsects of life. Sharing info about her daily routines, sharing info about her future schedule and plans
Very unhappy if needs not met
Eval minus 2
Attraction
Need 3.physical fitness, hygiene, nice hair and make up
If not met neither happy or unhappy
Evaluation 3.
She is very attractive to me be it first thing in morning or dressed up to go out for dinner
Financial Support
Need 1
Eval 3
Domestic Support
As hers
Admiration
Need 4. 5 times per week
Somewhat unhappy if not received
Eval minus 1
Not enough but good when she does it

Ranking
1 Affection
2 Admiration
3 Conversation
4 Honesty
5 Rec Companionship

Strange really quite close to her results

okay havent read the whole message yet, but to change your profile name.. you will want to go to MY HOME and then towards the bottom there is an area to edit name and password stuff.....

i will read the answers and see what i get from it... talk to you soon!

So what does she do NOW for her recreational time? And why can't you join her in those things, even if you have no interest in them? You might be surprised at what you learn to enjoy! My hobbies are reading, martial arts, ren fair, etc... My wife's are crafting (anything, crocheting, knitting, can make anything), watching TV, a little reading. Solution for me: We both took up walking as a new hobby. When she watches TV, I read and we snuggle in a big chair. I learned to crochet! (and I'm getting pretty good! LOL) Tonite, she's walking up to the dojo that my sons and I are going to, going to watch us work out while she knits.

See where you might apply this too?

On the SF...tie this into communication. TALK about what she likes/dislikes. Maybe set up times when you do everything for her, another time she does for you. You get the idea I'm sure.

Conversation...less talking, more listening. I had to learn this myself. You'd be amazed at how much more effective you can be in this area if you let her talk about what she wants to, and you actively stay engaged. Just takes practice.

Appearance: Well, no reason you can't start working out again is there? This isn't one of the areas my wife had issues with, but I'm trying to take care of this myself FOR myself. Any benifit she gets from that is just icing for me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That's the beauty of this...now you have specific areas you can work on! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hello again Owl. I am starting to work out again next week ready for the snowboard trip and have been wanting to for a while. Just needed a kick in the [censored]. I think she would enjoy going to the gym too.
At the minute she doesn't do any hobbies whatsoever. She used to like swimming so i might suggest we go swimming together once a week. I'm not keen but more than happy to partake and it will also help with my fitness program and show off the body a bit so she can see whats she missing?! lol
SF front is a non starter at the moment buddy, how i wish it was but some good memories if you know what i mean. When we were together she didn't like talking about and i can remember only once in our marriage did she initiate a session, only once but it was the best one ever.
Conversation is easier now as i take a real interest in anything she has to say and instead of butting in with typical fatherly or male advice i listen, agree and offer support not solution. Troube is i tend to float back to our M and R hoping for her to say ok lets try and that always adds a bit of tension. I am trying hard to stop this but it is so hard. PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE!!!!!!!!!!
I am just afraid that all this has happened too late!

okay... so this is going to be just a little long so bare with me.... first off after reading both of your answers i dont think that i would have put your top 5's the same as what you selected.... let me explain

HER:
1 admiration
2 conversation
3 RC
4 HO
5 Affection

here is my reasoning... admiration is huge for her if she doesnt feel appreciated then she is her worst critic and gets down on her self (this i my number one too and if you read my posts... maybe some more insight...)

she had 2 as affection.. i dont think that that really is what she needs.. you see, if she feel admired she will feel the affection... does that make sense?

her number 3 was conversation but she indicated that it is really important for her... that really if i was looking i would move up to #2.... she is a female.... we like to talk... but it needs to be sincere.. no tv in the background... you being attentive to her...

#4 was RC.... i think that it is important to her, but due to not having activites that both of you find mutual interest in doing.. it is a bit difficult to realize how much it is needed.

#5 she had as HO but really i would put that as a 4... she needs the truth and she circled all the different types of honesty options... obviously a little bigger that what she is making it....

again... these are just my opinions and I by far am not an expert!

now you.... i would have put different too...

YOU:
1 Affection
2 Admiration
3 C
4 HO
5 RA

for your #1... i agree... this is your main EN no questions asked

#2 i would have put as HO.... you put this as a 6 and gaver her a minus 2 and said you are VERY unhappy when not met... so imagine how much more this is going to be true now?!?! Complete and brutal honesty is what you will need thus point forward.

#3 i would have said RA....again the 6 and minus 2 thing... but not only that but you have expressed how many times you have tried to get her involved with different things that you enjoy and the rejection from her.... i really dont think that this is a 5...

#4.... admiration.... basically the opposite of the wife and what i explained there.... yeah you need a boost periodically, but if she were doing the other things in the top 5... you probably would feel pretty admired.

#5 conversation.... you enjoy it... but you are a guy and can survive with out it... i think part of the reason you had it higher is because you have come to realize the hard way that this is very important to your wife, but im sure that like number 4 if your top 3 were being met and you did have some conversation you would be good....


so what do you think? am I way off track?

okay so now how to get her to move home.... first you have to be prepaired that this may take some time... it is NOT going to happen over night.... but here are some suggestions, ideas, and opinions that you can pick through...

once i shared my ONS with my H... he was really hurt and asked me to go for my moms for awhile... i ended up only being there for a week, but it sure was an inconvinience.....
one night when he couldnt sleep he started writting different reasons he couldnt live with out me.... i was un aware of any of this... N E Ways... well he would wake me up in the morning as he was leaving for work and that is when i would start getting ready and every work day morning he would put a reason on my bathroom mirror.... at first i was like what the heck is he doing and then was like oh.. what a suck up... and blah blah blah... but they kept on coming... anything from my eyes, my smile, to my different habits, my accidents, my scars... anything and everything....
as the days went by my heart started to warm up... i started to look forward to wakeing in the morning to see what he left for me.... there ended up being 100 things! 100!!!! INSANE!!!!!! but you know what... i still have those notes and cherish them.... it didnt cost, it didnt require much of anything but kind words and thoughts.

so that is just an example of something really special that you could do.... and hey if she sticks around for 100 days to get all those notes... thats a pretty good start. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />)

she need to feel that you think she is the most amazing thing in the world with out feeling smuthered.....

the conversation piece... you got it now..... you have got to keep this up.... so important!!!!! LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN... think of this... God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason... hahaha

start inviting her out... okay she liked to swim... so come on! whats stopping you... plus you get to see her in a bathing suit!!!!!!

see if she wants to join a gym with you and you guys can work out together..... take some dance classes... i know you said you are 6 something and she is 5'5" but put some heels on and she can be 5'8".... and what a great way to bond.....

now here is a key.... as you start doing these activites that you may not like that much.... she will start to enjoy her self.... after awhile of this... then you can ask her if she wants to go to a driving range with you... not even 18 holes but "hey you want to go hit a bucket of balls with me?" how is she going to say no?!?

okay before i keep ranting and raving tell me how im doing... this little line is to everyone... i dont want to say anything wrong... so give me an A-O-K if i havent strayed to far.....

Well LITW. I think you have got me spot on. If your top three for me were met the other two would just go with the flow. I would feel admired and having combined interests would also give us extra to talk about. So that is spot on thankyou.
Ok, now to W. Admiration is obviosly as big for a lady as affection is for a man, so i will work alot harder to admire her special qualities that she has in abundance. I kind of agree that admiration takes care of affection but a quick kiss on the neck or a whispered i love you costs nothing and puts a smile on the face. With the RC i will do more things with her but its catch 22. At the minute she really does not want to go out with me or go swimming or anything. In her mind it is over and we should just get on with our lives. She still has no intention of moving home (only been 6 weeks tho - 6 weeks of loneliness and torture tho). Until hopefully she decides to do this i don't see how i can persuade her to do these things together. I know what i need to do and should have done this a year ago. I'm just so scared i will never get the chance to start making those large deposits in her love bank. While we are apart in the brief times i see her i can only deposit very small amounts in her bank, taking along time to get back in the black. And while we are apart i feel she is growing further apart from me which is withdrawing any deposit i make.
Still well confused why she won't come home. I think that if she wanted to she would have done it by now. I also think that now she is out she wouldn't want to go thru all the hassle of moving her geat back in and she would also be a little worried about what people would say. Everyone i have spoken to says it would be great if we got back together but i know most of her friends says its her choice and if it feels right and its best for you then do it. Be honest to yourself i have heard one say.
D'oh all mad again now. Not your fault LITW just get carried away and sad that shes not here. I just want to hold her and tell her i love her and its all going to be ok, with alot of work and compromise we can do this!!!!!

The first comment... I completely agree with... will you talk to my H?!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

as far as this second part.... you are going to have to be a persistant little bugger!!!!! you have GOT to figure out something to get her to go out with you... what was your first date? where did you guys go back when she was 16? take her roller skating... i dont know but you have got to figure out some way to spend time with her.....

her mind is her mind!!!! IT IS NOT OVER! IT IS NOT OVER! IT IS NOT OVER! IT IS NOT OVER! you have to fight for what is yours... go to the matresses!!! Have you seen the tv show 24? the season opener had the main character come back to america on a trade agreement from a prision in china... he had been there for a few years and had been horribaly tortured... well the reason for the trade was a new terrorist wanted this guys because he was reposible for something or other... This characters old boss had to hand cuff this guy to a window to wait for this new terrorist to come get him and his boss was apologized.... Jack (the character) said dont be sorry... you dont understand... the only reason i survived in china was because i could die for nothing... at least this way i will die for something....

what im trying to say... you cant give up!!! if you are still willing to fight and know something is still there and worth fighting for you have got to go to the bitter end!!! Screw your "friends" that are telling you what ever hog wash isn't right.... come here talk to people who are going through or have been through the same things you are dealing with....

are you mad enough to do something about it?!?!?!

now every interaction you have with her is depositing or withdrawing for her bank... so those AO can NOT happen... you just have to be making deposits as you see her... bite your tounge and yell here.. scream here, but to her.... you have to make deposits.... it will increase your account... it may be slow but it WILL happen.... the choice is yours... do you want to beleive or are you going to throw the towel in?

I am not ready to throw the towel in. Not until the divorce papers arrive (think its two years in UK after seperation, not totally sure though). I have set a date of 1st August for end of plan A but the days seem like weeks. I will continue to be "me" when shes with me, i can do my crying and moping about behind closed doors. We didn't do alot when she was 16 apart from glare in each others eyes or she would come and sit with me when i was fishing. Her F owned a commercial fishery and we would chat and laugh. We used to go to the cinema and drive around,go for a walk along the beach and eat chips (fries). All these things seem out of reach now. When shes back Sunday i will talk to her and ask her to walk the dog with me, then approach going skating, swimming or to the gym together. Must keep positive. LITW you are my angel from God. Please keep up the good work!!
On a different subject do you believe in spiritualists?? I went for a tarot reading with a reputable person shortly after our problem arose. She told me so much truth about myself i was shocked. Spoke to W about it and she went to but was not quite as impressed. Anyway to cut a long story after main reading she said my guide is telling me something is worrying you. She then offered two more services for free. I agreed and thanked her and she did a reading called Yes/No/Maybe. I had to think of my problem and ask the cards an answer. My question (in my head only) was will i save my marriage. The answer was YES! After this I cast the Rune stones. Some more answers in there. Was such a sureal experience and i was taped. I often listen to it and am still amazed what she knew about me. This still gives me hope. Some say its all rubbish, some believe, i chose to believe as both W and I were always in to spiritualism and mediumship. She also told me i was full of wisdom and had mediumship qualities that i should explore. One day maybe???

LITW. Can i read about your experiences on here? If so please direct me to your thread

first.... i think that seeing if she can walk the dog with you is a great way to get her to do something!.... maybe on your walk you can stop and get a coffee/tea so you both stay warm while walking... be sly.... did she enjoy sitting and fishing with you? maybe that is something you two can do... step by step.. so next week its a walk and maybe tea.. the following week maybe it is two days of walking the dog... maybe the following week will be... poping into her place of work and see if she can get away for lunch.. if that is too long.. what about some more tea or coffee... better yet... you can bring it to her! Oh.. i was thinking of you and just happened to be in the area.... see.... sly..... go get some fish and chips together... go walk on the beach let the dog swim in the water... enjoy GOD's creation!

now as far as spiritualists.... i personally have not had any dealings with tarot readings or casting of stones, but i would warn you to be careful. There are so many different perspectives and beliefs out in the world and people figure it out on their own time and terms... I am a believer in christ i believe that he died for my sins past present and future and that through Gods grace i am saved. That is my belief... i am not a person who pushes down others throats what i believe or tell people that if they dont believe what i believe they will be damned to ******.... that is just not me or what i stand for.. but what i will tell you is that the God I believe in... He performs miracles.... He is a God of love and it hurts Him when His children are hurting. I know that He is even watching you as you go through this whole process.... what i will say is that i do think that some of those people who say they can see things and read the future are getting this power from somewhere... if it be a good or bad power.... that is up to the person who chooses to believe in it...

Regardless of what you are choosing to put your faith in I will tell you that I am praying for you and your wife... that God will keep his hands around each of you and that He will lead you both down the right path.

LITW

i dont know how to get a link here but i will direct you to it.....

it is under infidilety, in recovery, Is is inevitable?

if that doesnt work click on my name in one of the posts and my info comes up and select 'all user posts' you will be able to see all the different posts I have made...

i actually have been having a great conversation with one of the gentleman who got mad at me on your post Mark1952... he is very insightful and you can check that post out too... that is here under general questions and is titled... 'lostintheworld... come hither... please'

share your insights with me....

Thanks again LITW. Totally off track here. Don't take this the wrong way but i do believe in God but choose not to worship. I see alot of people on here are religious with strong beliefs. It seems that the US is a much more religious state than England. Not many people go to church here. We have a wonderful large church in our small town but out of a population of about 4000 i guess there is only 50 at most go to Sunday morning service. Most of these are from older generations. Probably the same to the Catholic Church and less to the Protestant and Methodist churches.
We got married in this church, i am Church of England baptised but the W is not baptised so i guess this was wrong. She is not religious in any way neither are her family. Tonight when i go to bed, won't be too long as its 11:15 here now i am going to pray and talk to Him.

well good i am glad to here it and I do know that God can make himself known at any time to his children..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

as far as the church thing in England... I am aware of that... my sister in law is from Wales and her and I have sat and talked about this more than once.....

I'll say good night and try and get some sleep. At least i will have the dog to cuddle up to! Got usual text from W saying good night and a kiss at the end. Always makes me feel better. I guess i'm a lucky man that we still get on well. It gives me great hope and belief in all i am doing will not be in vain. If it is, at least i can say i tried and not have to live with the regret that i did not do all i could. Love is blind in some, i just need to remove her blinkers! Good night all

This EN analysis is very important. It's how you recover and protect your M from now on. So keep on posting.

But, as LITW remembered, the immediate objective is to get her back home so you can effectively meet her ENs (and get yours met) in real time.

So, prove you are changing to better meet her ENs, and convince her the recovery methods (MB in this case) really work for you and can work for her.

Love is a choice. It is a verb. The feelings will follow. That's the hidden message behind meeting ENs. When you consistently meet your W's ENs she eventually feels it.

Oh, and don't forget pride. She may feel very reluctant to give an inch just yet. How would you want that addressed if you were her, LITW?


OK, I'm out of here. Got a weekend to live.

With prayers,

good point.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> this is actually a tough one.... Pride is a very very very touchy subject especially after she has made such a stand... to get her to back down... maybe something to this extent....

look i know that it took a lot of strength and courage for you to make the decision to leave. I also know that at that time you felt that a step such as that did need to be made. This step that you made allowed my eyes to really open and see what i would be missing. Also, it has allowed me to see that the only person I can change is myself and I am working on that. I know that i am not perfect and I know it would be asking a lot from you, but could you please come back home and allow me one more chance to show you that i have/am working on changing into a person that can be the type of husband you deserve. please?

at this point if she were to sway at all you could say something like.... please? all i am asking for is one last shot? let me prove to you how much I love you.....

again just suggestions... but i personally think that it would be really hard for her to say no..... but the key is to STAY CALM AND COLLECTED... and if she says no you can not AO...NOT EVEN A LITTLE... and if she says yes.... you just put a smile on your face, give her a hug and say thank you... i wont let you down..... dont get over excited about it because if she says yes and does come home... the journey will be just at the begining... you know what I mean?