I must be naive...I must really be naive like my H said b/c things can be great on the surface but if we talk about R/M...I cn point out the things I like about himand the things that bother me and all he hears is that I'm critizing him and everythings about me right now, and I'm just looking for things to get a D...

HE said then when I repeated what he said he said that's not what he said but he told me that if I refused to have anal SF with him, then he was going to continue to view porn on the net...that it wasn't like he was asking for it all the time that he just wanted it occasional...

I said that I refuse to do it and I believed that he would never understand how it hurt and was humiliating to me... I told him that I thought it was wrong of him to ask something of me that he knew I didn't like...

I have been fighting for this M but the same pattern repeats itself and I must be naive to think that things are going to change...

I must really be stupid to keep thinking that we are working as a team...H said that he gives me everything I want...I agree and said yeah, material wise...He asked me what I wanted and I said a kiss on the nape of the neck while I'm cooking, hugs, kisses and not just pecks, a connection, intimacy...

We have these talks and he goes to the defensive and starts telling me that I'm only doing things for him right not b/c he's working nights...that I'm jealous of HN...then, when I repeat he says that's not what he said...

How am I suppose to make progress when I am viewed as the enemy...and I told him that I think he sees me as the enemt sometimes and not as his W...

I'm really the enemy b/c I'm not giving in and I'm taking a stand for myself...I really don't see how I can do this...stay Med...and yet the I can't figure out how to go about getting a D...how do you figure out when to jump to save your life?

Then If I do file for D, will he burn the house down like he's said he would? I'm unhappy, balling my eyes out and am so scared...I don't know what to do...no, he didn't threat to burn the house down tonight...

I did ask him what happens when porns not good enough...when it doesn't do the trick anymore...of course, I didn't get an answer...I've been watching his useage...sometimes everyday, sometimes every other day...for at least an hour...usually more...

I strongly believe that he has an addiction...I haven't said anything about it in months to him and today I mentioned it b/c I had to take care of something that he would have had time to do had he used his time appropriately...no I didn't say it like that...I said that I was angry that he asked me to strap the ramp down that had to be delivered to our friend b/c he said that he didn't have time when he used his time to look at T&A.

At one point he asked me, what happen to think before you speak? This was in regards to the other day when I said that he didn't miss anything at the parade, which I apologized for saying and admitted that he was the only one that could decide that...I said that I was not perfect and when I figure out that I am wrong in a sitch that I feel that it's right to make amends...I said that I believed that what people do when they are wrong...

It was crazy and I can't even remember what all was said b/c I let myself get so upset and I told him Good night and not more than a minute later he was calling me back and telling me if I wanted a D then to just go ahead and do it and stop looking for things to b)tch at him about. I remember talking about how I thought that M was suppose to be two people talking about what bothers them, working it out, coming to a compromise...

MY honest to GOD belief that he wanted me to file for D so that he doesn't look like the bad guy...that I'm the one who doesn't take care of him, and I'm the one who won't give him ASF, the reasons why our friends don't come around more often...

I hear what he says...I can't even count the times that I told him that he was assuming that I was doing or saying something to whatever...he even agreed with me at one point that he was...

He told me that he would give me what I wanted if he got what he wanted to F me the a...

I am not respected, I am expected to cater to his needs without getting what I need and I know that is so wrong...I know that I deserve so much more...and I keep thinking that if I change enough become the best person that I can that it will amke a difference and it's not...I'm lieing to myself...

He has no reason to want better and there's nothing wrong with him...

No time for should of huh? Like I should have followed through with the D when I had the money and the appt...

I need to calm down, so I can stop blowning my nose, and go to sleep...I can figure out what to do next tomorrow...and I think it's time to keep my mouth shut...

He'll start been nice in a few days and he fills my LB so fast...we have a b-day party to go to Sat. and a poker run for Sun...

I am so confused and I need to calm down...I don't know what to do...I need help...and the strenght...

I can relate to your post to the point that it is almost scary.

Here's what I did..... I stopped telling him. I asked him and if he didn't answer, I went away and did something else.


He is mad because the Ws in him is losing control. Realize this and know that his frustration is the WS fighting to stay and your H fighting to kick the WS out.

This will continue for a while. All interaction with you may empower the Ws. Suffocate that by limiting your interaction with him. Make your H miss you so that he fights to find you.

Pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. Can you do that?

JMHO,
L.

regardless of anything else

your H is making a very selfish demand

in fact, you have told him that ASF "hurts and humiliates you" and he doesn't care.

to be constantly harassed about this is emotional abuse.

I am all about saving marraiges. However, this IS emotionally abusive behavior.

to demand that you allow him to have ANY kind of SF with you or he will......watch porn, D you, whatever....that is a threat

and if you do submit to his demand, allowing yourself to be hurt and humiliated only because you are threatened, it WILL have escalate from emotional abuse to sexual abuse.

There IS NO excuse for this.

There is NO reason to tolerate this.

I'm sorry, i believe this is just unacceptabe from a "WS" or "FWS" or anyone

(((Rind))

I really don't have much in the advice arena... I just want you to know I sending many hugs and prayers.

Still

O-
((((O))))
I'm trying very hard, I didn't sleep hardly any last night...not that I didn't want to, but my mind kept reeling...thank you for posting to me...I want to have hope that things will improve...

I finally started sleeping good after I hit snooze on my alarm the first time this morning...WH came in an said it's almost 7 wake up...I went straight to the bathroom and got dressed...I came out of the bathroom, grabbed my shoes, and told L to come on...and left without a word to him, kissed F goodbye...

I can try to do what you are asking...but all I can think of is trying to find the meanest lawyer in town and moving on as scary as it is...I don't trust him to save my life, especially if I tried to leave...I am scared that if I leave that he will track me down and if I get him to leave that he will follow through with his threats...

Eav-
I will not back down, I will not give in...I am tired of backing down and not standing my ground...when I say that it's from years of deciding that things would be smooth if I just did what he wanted...well, I'm tired...I do believe that H is EA/VA, and has been...during "talks" about NC, his A, and our M, things have esculated...

I mentioned that he burned some of my books...this included SAA, HNHN, THe PA man, and Dr. Phil's Self...b/c they were a threat to him...man hating books...I have the remains in a zip lock here at work...I have a picture of the glass...just in case...

He broke the glass in the entertainment center, threw a coke bottle in my direction, and has punched walls. The glass was last...

I have left for the night and he has rode around looking for me at all of our freind's houses saying that when he found me that he was going to make a scene, so it was best that I just came on home...I was fearful that he would carry through with what he said, so I agreed to come home if he would leave me alone. I slept in the spare room with the door locked and he did what he said...he left me alone...

I have a lot of concerns and I can't figure out what's founded and not...

H doesn't constantly talk about it (ASF)...probably a DJ, but if it were coming from him...I would be throwing the ASF in his face...I mean if I thought like he thinks...

I WILL STAND MY GROUND, this is my body and he doesn't have the right to ask me to do something I don't like...

I am grateful for your post in more ways than one...Thank you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Still-

Sweetie, thank you for just being here...it means a lot to me...I was so upset that I called a friend last night at midnight, just to talk, I was trying to calm down and I did a little...I was so glad that I didn't wake her up...she couldn't really talk much b/c her H was there...I thanked her for just listening and said that I knew she would understand how things get turned around and it's all our fault...she said if I needed to call back that I could...

So, you just being here means the world to me...

oh, ((((RIN))))

I'm sorry. Wish I could say something that would help, but don't know what that would be.

Can you take a day or two to calm down? You've been on this rollercoaster before, gotten to this before, and then once you could calm down, decided that things weren't really as bad as you had been seeing them.

Right now, you seem frantic, grabbing at everything. Maybe you need to take the time to calmly and thoroughly explore what you are trying to get to, what your boundaries are, what the enforcements will be, what your choices are, what actions you will take, etc. Bring it back to your control, your choices & your actions, instead of being so reactionary to his.

You can do it. You've learned so much recently, time to put it to use.

-AmI.

What concerns me is not the ASF per se. I'm concerned for you that he is being DEMANDING and THREATENING about his request..NOT AT ALL LOVING AND CONCERNED ABOUT YOU OR YOUR FEELINGS...He is saying that you do not MAKE LOVE..that your SF is JUST THAT..despite all the energy that you have been putting into the FEELING ASPECTS of your RELATIONSHIP. He does seem to be NARCISSISTIC and TYRANNICAL...



Well said and reasonable..A LOVING HUSBAND WOULD AND SHOULD LISTEN TO AND RESPECT THIS...



Yes, this is what I'm NOT hearing..There definitely seems to be a LACK OF...INTIMACY..EMOTIONAL CLOSENESS AND CONNECTION...OPENNESS and HONESTY..in your relationship...



Who is your HUSBAND, Rin? Who is he REALLY? Facing reality is sooo difficult but I REALLY BELIEVE that is best for us in order to deal and solve our problems. If he is a DANGEROUS and SCARY person, then we need to help you act to get yourself to a SAFE PLACE..we need to help you to be diplomatic in your dealings with him...until your SAFETY can be arranged and accomplished...



Do you think that maybe you have been enabling this? This is not at all meant to kick you. This is what YOU CAN CONTROL. You cannot CURE HIS ADDICTION but YOU CAN STOP ENABLING it...



HOW DISRESPECTFUL OF HIM..and wanting you to be ACCEPTING OF THIS... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />..and what about your children..isn't there a danger that they walk in on this..would he care?

The thing is I don't think TALKING with him about anything is the ANSWER right now..you know my thing..ACTIONS...he is USING your BELIEF SYSTEMS as AMMUNITION against you..YOU ARE NOT AN ENEMY TO HIM..but HE IS ACTING LIKE AN ENEMY TO YOU RIGHT NOW...



But his NICENESS is an ACT, Rin..GENUINE NICENESS, KINDNESS, LOVE OF YOUR WIFE... CONTINUES AND DOES NOT STOP....AND TURN INTO THE SORDIDNESS, MEANNESS AN UGLINESS THAT YOU ARE EXPERIENCING...



I recommend talking OPENLY to your SPONSOR about ALL OF THIS...

thank you...this thought did cross my mind last night as I tried to calm myself...I was thinking that I have been reacting my whole life and it's action that I need to take...

I'm so scared that I'll make the wrong choice...I don't want to be around him, I don't want to talk to him, I don't want to bring him lunch, I don't want to do anything for him...

He wants to believe that I'm doing things for him b/c he's working nights...I have it in mind not to do anything for him...then, I think I need to take the higher ground, I could make him lunch, drop it off and leave before I see him...



I really wonder if I'm living in a world of denial...being naive...living in denial that things are really okay...in a few days he'll be kissing @$$, and I will blow things off until it happens again...

You know what started the whole thing...I asked if he didn't wonder why the coke crates where in the living room and he said that he didn't question everything that I do like I do him...

BTW, the coke crates are in the living b/c I'm using them to step...the first night I did it for 15 minutes and was sweating my behind off...my calms were sore and last night I did 20 minutes with my calf hurting...I've gained about 30 lbs, I guess, in the past year...with the meds and the rollercoaster...

Well, H didn't want me to purchase a tread mill saying that no one used those things...so I'm being creative...I'll get back to where I want to be again...weighting 120 lbs at 4'11"...

I want to try to do 25 minutes tonight...I would love to have a treadmill...so I can run...I would love to borrow one from someone...

I'm trying, I think the execise will be good for me right now...I actually was watching Fit TV last night...

Oh, H made reference to me not calling about his dentist appt. last night too...one of his point that it's all about me right now...I believe that he IS triying to bend me and I believe that now more than anything is the time to stand my ground...

Thanks, AmI...I do feel like I'm crazy right now, doubting myself...wondering if I am the bad person...I brought up the comment about him teling me that I'm the reason why our friends don't stop by and I told him that I had to ask them where this was true and that I was told that it wasn't...

H laughed at me, and said the same thing Techie said about them telling me the truth and I said that I beleived that was what a true friend is someone who will tell you the truth...He said that if I believed that then I was more naive then he thought...

It's crazy...I'll sit tight for the time being...

((((((Mimi))))))

I don't know...I thought about talking to my S...she said once that she would help be find the resources that I need...I've thought about contacting the shelter here and that's scary...I have a notized letter that he can't pick up the kids from the sitter but I haven't enforced it...one, he rarely picks them up...I thought about getting one to the school...I've thought about so many things but I'm scared of what he will do...

Use the kids against me...Mimi...you know me sitch...I can't figure out if this is all in my head, if I'm overreacting...

I do agree that he uses the things I tell him against me...

I have a good job...if I go to a shelter what about my job...do I continue to come here...I have a great job...he's left work in the middle of the day to come here and "talk" to me...my boss has heard the things that he's said...she's was very concerned for me at the time...MOF, he's come to my work of many occasions...

TBH, I'm scared that I'll end up one of those S you hear about on TV or in the paper where the OS walks in an shots the other...Of course, If I were to say that to H, he would say have I ever hurt you, put me hands on you, and the answer would be NO...so, I'm crazy right?


I will, I'm not strong enought to do something on my own...especially right now...I made sure to delete the history in my laptop and I even thought about hiding my books...I thought about would he kill my dog to make a point? Fact of the matter, I don't know what he will do and what he won't...I don't trust him...

I'm trying so hard to come to grips with what's fact and fiction...

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...I said that I was angry that he asked me to strap the ramp down that had to be delivered to our friend b/c he said that he didn't have time, I believe that he didn't have time b/c he used it to look at T&A.

this comment was edited for clarity

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HOW DISRESPECTFUL OF HIM..and wanting you to be ACCEPTING OF THIS... ..and what about your children..isn't there a danger that they walk in on this..would he care?


I don't think that I was clear on this...from my POV, he didn't have time to add the strap b/c he was looking at porn...it was clear...I saw the times on the laptop...I was the one being disrespectful...

H looks at porn when we are not home...when he had his own CPU in the dining room, when the kids would come around, he would close it...that was a few yrs. back...or a yr. I've had the laptop...I got rid of his b/c it was acting up...


I understand and I am grateful for you posting Mimi...he does it when I'm not around...I don't know or can't think how I would be doing this...I thought about doing that parental control on my laptop...or putting a password on it but I know that this will enrage him and I wouldn't be surprised if he broke it...

:shrugging my shoulders: I don't know mimi, I don't know where I need to go next, or what to do...but I know that I have to DO something...this isn't right...it's like I'm an object to him and that's imhumane IMP. It's gathering the courage to say "I've had enough!"

I can say this whatever I do it will have to be quiet IMO. Keeping my mouth shut is probably the best thing to do right now...if I push it will get worse...I feel it...

Good thing...he's working nights...

you are not confused

confused is when you don't understand something
you have understanding of this situation

you are sad <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> and angry <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

you are facing a 2-choice dilemma ... this means no matter which of the 2 you choose, you are not getting what you want/need/desire/expect

both doors hold disappointment for you

your dilemma is to make a choice that does NOT diminish YOU ... your character, your values, your dignity ....

Can this be POJA'ed?
Think about it ... without a knee-jerk response ... CAN THIS BE POJA'ED?

If I decide I will not live with a man who drinks ( Mr Pep is in AA) ... I POJA this way ... "It is your decision to drink, it is my decision to live with a sober man. The only way we can both have what we want is to separate. Let's work this sepparation agreement out so we both are getting something."

Pep

Not an option, I can pack my [censored] and leave the kids...take only my clothes...if I remember this correctly which he has said several times...

Options...I can stay and live with this...or I can leave...and hope and pray that everything is fine and that my HP will take care of me...

thank you for sharing...but I'm in Al-anon b/c of FOO...

are you saying you have no intention of getting a legal separation agreement if you leave

or

are you saying you have no rights if you leave?

What are you saying?

Pep

EXACTLY..KEEP THIS IN MIND AND DON'T FORGET IT..I TELL MYSELF THIS A ZILLION TIMES A DAY, RIN..I TEND TO OVERREACT, TOO...



What would LA say? Don't put these two concepts together. Yes, you are SCARED..That is your FEELING..OWN IT..but at the same time..There is no WRONG choice. You are free to make the choices that you want to make AND as PEP says YOU ARE NOT CONFUSED because you are THINKING AND NOT OVERREACTING....



DON'T DO ANYTHING..while you are DECIDING ON YOUR PLAN!!!

BE STILL..... Stay focused..don't go off on the EXERCISE TANGENT..stay focused on THIS....



YES...STOP FOCUSING ON HIM and WHAT HE HAS SAID...

The key is to MAINTAIN CONFIDENCE IN YOURSELF...

I think he really is abusive..maybe talk to someone at a SHELTER there...or someone who specializes in this...

This is a situation when I THINK IT'S GOOD TO TRUST YOUR GUT....

hi there.. mr. picky here, coming to hopefully point out some things you may be glossing over <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Umm.. waitaminit... he has every right to ask.

MarriageBuilder basics. ENs. Meeting your spouses needs, may require doing things that you "dont like". For the "vanilla SF" question.. some people "dont like" sex more than once a month, and their spouse wants it twice a week. What is the harley recommendation?
Have sex as much as the person with the higher drive wants it.

that isnt to say, "he's asking for xyz type of sex, you MUST give it to him". but it does suggest you should consider doing it for him, even though you "dont like it".



I see a few things going on here:

1. you're getting freaked about "control of your own body". you dont want to give up "control" of yourself.

2. your husband is using porn, and it may be warping his sexual practices.
I think I told you about this before. you claimed he was "just" looking at "boob" sites, I think?
Trouble is, porn can lead someone to get turned on by what they see, then expect that same thing in real life. A lot of porn has anal sex in it, so he probably is associating anal, with his sexual drive now.

painful truth: i got the same way.
Once I cut porn out, the curiosity/urge for that, diminished drastically.

There's also an intimacy thing going on. Sometimes, a husband wants to feel like his wife is totally committed to him, and will not withhold herself from him. Showing him there are "no holes barred" so to speak, could be something he feels he needs, for you to "show him", that you are completely open and intimate with him.
How often does he ask? once a week? once a month?

is him asking for anal, REALLY worth getting a divorce over?

If it's only a few times a year, I humbly suggest that you give it to him... while at the same time, making it as comfortable for you as possible.

eg:

"As a sign of my love for you, i'm willing to give myself to you in this way. To make it more comfortable for me, though, I need you to do it extra-carefully, like [this]..."

but also, i suggest that you work something in there, to ask him to give up porn completely for you.
Maybe, "I am giving myself completely to you. I wish for you to give yourself completely to me and only me, in return"

I've suggested this to others, but not to you, i think. So I'll suggest it to you as well:

You might consider, with his cooperation, replacing his pictures of other women, with pictures of you.
Yes, I mean "naughty" ones, not just regular pictures.
First see if he is open to the idea, then offer him the opportunity to take really "dirty" pictures of you, for him to look at when you are not available for him.
Sounds like he has lots of time at home with you not around. get him all steamed up over pictures of you, rather than other women.

Right now, he's addicted to "looking at pictures of naked women". There's no reason that the naked woman in question couldnt be you. If he can transition to that, it will make it much much easier for him to transition off looking at other women.
I speak from personal experience on this.

Right now, the porn is like a drug he's hooked on. What you want to do, is be like a clinic, and offer him one of those medical "substitute" drugs, to help him come down off his addiction <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's healthy for your marriage, and it works wonders.

Techie:

Please back off from MBers for awhile.

I don't think it applies to Rin's situation right now AT ALL...

Yes, this is MIMI saying this....

Her H is definitely being ABUSIVE...and is ADDICTED TO PORN..

Pep:

She's scared of her H..and has every reason to be..has threatened to burn the house and has torn up her belongings...mentioned in her post that she's scared she will be a statistic..

I believe that this should be taken VERY SERIOUSLY...

But Rin..needs to develop a PLAN...

Sorry..I've got to go but will be checking back soon...

Morning techie! He has pics of me...I even sent him one late last week on his phone...he even has a video of us from yrs. ago, when we were experiementing with ASF...I use to do it...and last April...I was at the point that you are talking about with giving it to him occasionally...it still did not make me feel any better...

We've done the let's try it this way and trying to make it comfortable for me...we've had a few messes and this is something I can no longer do...I can't even entertain the idea anymore...

I understand the addiction...but doing what you have suggested has no made matters any better in my M, according to him I am treating him like a child and he will do what he wants...regardless of how I feel...

You are right, he can ask all he wants...

I called my S and emailed the link to her...I believe that this is the best way to get she up to speed...

I am going to my meeting tonight with her help...

LA, thanks for recommending Al-anon...

My S is very valuable to me...she's a blessing!

HI, S!