Mmm... I'm sad to hear that he did not respond well to your efforts in that area. Glad to hear that you tried.

Two final comments on the subject:
1. cellphone "pics" do not compare to the hi-res stuff he's looking at on the internet. It was a nice guesture on your part, but it just doesnt "work".

2. unfortunately, if he's on his OWN "control" trip
("I'm entitled, I can do what I want for myself"), then yeah, it's not going to help. The addict has to WANT to quit, before the methodone is going to be a useful effective tool for them.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

sorry

Maybe if you let things cool off for a while, you could try the "thoughful request" approach for that again. dunno.
but if he's not willing to go full NC with the OW, he's not likely to go "NC" with pornography either, I'd suppose.

Rinder, if AS is not enjoyable for you and he still considers it as necessary to meet his need for SF, then his requests for AS might be another facet of his abusive personality.

SF is Sexual Fulfillment. Usually for guys that means sex with a willing partner, sex with someone who wants to and looks forward to experiencing sex with us, and is very satisfied with the experience. For me, and I hope for most other guys, if my partner doesn't really want to be with me, or feels forced to do the things I want to do, or is not satisfied with the experience, then it's not SF.

I understand the point in Techie's post though - it's possible that his addiction to porn might be fuelling his requests for AS, even though you've told him that you are no longer willing to do so. But I suspect that it's another facet of his abusive personality.

I don't get it.

You were happy surrendering to win and now this. He will has exhibited a consistent pattern of behavior that is abusive and disrespectful.

You say you are afraid of a D etc.

I think that we can say anything we want here but is it going to fall on deaf ears when the H decides to give you crumbs again.

It seems as though you have decided to stay with your H no matter what he does.

Nobody here can make the decesion for you.

I am not going to give you a full 2x4 maybe a 1x2 because based on following your thread I knew this was coming.

So lets just go with worse case scenario. Your H burning down the house. Not to be crass about it but as long as you and the kids aren't in it let him do it.

Then he will suffer the consequences and go to jail. If he is violent with you have him arrested then get a protection order and keep him away.

One day you sound as though you are fine with his abusive behaviour and BTW I consider him being emotionally abusive by CHOSING contact with the OW.

That is mental abuse having that hang over your head. And yes I know you have contact with OM but that is not by choice so there is a difference.

So what do YOU want to do? Where do you want to be. Do you actually believe you don't diserve better? This decesion is yours.

We have established your H doesnt' treat you right. What are you prepared to do about it?

He requests things from you that aren't reasonable. If I were you with the ASF I would go buy a strap on and say I go first with you then you go with me. I don't mean to be graphic about it but there you go.

Say I don't want it all the time just every once in a while.

This is just an abusive way to belittle you and get you to do something you don't want to. If you let him he is in control he wins.

IMVHO it is more about getting you to do it now then it is about the pleasure he derives physically.

Techie- H has told me that he will talk to anyone he likes, do anything, and look at anything he wants...once again, regardless of how I feel or how it effects me...

MIM, thank you for posting...I agree with you on:


I can't even imagine doing this on top of the way I feel about it knowing that he did this with OW too...

I believe that this is behind my control...I'm leaning more toward cutting my loses...talking to a different Attoney b/c the other one when we talked about a RO...he said that it was really just a piece of paper and that if H did voilate it that the damage would be done before the police got there...the one I'm thinking about was the EX DA...

I'm even to the point that I don't want to live at my house b/c HN will have her eye on me, reporting everything that I do...

I think I'm stuck b/t a rock and a hard place on this...

Frog-


H wants no part of it...been there, done that...

I think that no matter how scare I am that I HAVE to do something about this...I was talking to my boss and filling her in...if he comes here she will get her own RO...she has seen him in actions and believes that i have lived with this entirely to long...

Like I said no sense in rehashing the ...I should have followed through the last time...

Well then aint that too bad. I would just say I will let you if you let me!!!!!! Every stinking time. He is waging mental warfare on you.

The threat of adultry if you don't bow to him.

I agree you have lived with it far too long. You cannot love while you are in fear.

I agree with Frog.

Where is the LOVE in his RELATIONSHIP with you?

Rinder,

I am sending you my prayers. I don't have much advice for your sitch. It sure is a doozy. I will give you my observations from following your story and please take this as nothing more than my observations.

I do notice it seems like you are actively trying to change him. You know that's never going to work. You are also letting your emotions dictate your life. That's not good either.

It appears you gave him the doormat Plan A and it has failed. Maybe a true Plan A is in order. Work on yourself, stop letting him get to you. His words have to bounce off, they will still hurt, but don't let them penetrate. Make your boundaries and enforce them, but do it compassionately.

It probably won't change much, but you need to do this and follow up with Plan B. It is starting to sound like you aren't considering Plan B. Your talk is of Plan D. You are getting deeper into your own fog. You are staring to want the pain to stop more than you want to save your marriage. I know your sitch has been going on for awhile, but if you don't feel like you've ran a succesful Plan A and B then you will walk away with regrets. Also know that success is based on how you feel about how you lived your plans, not the affectiveness of them with WS. How did they affect you.

My Plan A is getting very strong, and even though my WW hasn't really responded, I feel very good and have been for a few weeks. My rollercoast is all but gone. I know that I'm going to be just fine regardless of the outcome. I am not scared any more. You need a very strong Plan A to feel like this.

My session with SH helped tramendously as well. That guy will lift you up and give you peace. If you can find $185 make an appt. and have a notepad ready. He will blow you away. The Harley's truly care about you and your M. I can't say enough nice things about them.

Now, if your H is really a threat (you said he has never touched you) then find a way to protect yourself. Don't become that statistic.

Once again. These are just some of my observations. I am praying for you.

My only real advice is to call SH.

Good Luck

Hi, I went to lunch with my boss...didn't see any point on going home...I'm tired but don't want to sleep...he's there sleeping...my dog is fine...

So, we talked other some things and helped me get over some fears of the future about his behavior and the things that he COULD DO...

heck, I'm even fearful that he will read here...TBH...

Frog- no deaf ears...I promise! I have to follow through and don't succumb to him and his charm...

I have to go...

Hi, Cajun...I honestly feel that I have done everything that I can...I feel like I have run the best race and will have no regrets...

I was going to do this back in Oct. but H said that he would do whatever it took, blah, blah, blah...then, doesn't follow through...it's all lip service...

Sad, at Thanksgiving, H agree to have NC with OW and her S, and agreed not to go to "the store"...C continued...blah, blah, blah, nothing have changes...it's getting worse...

there's no LSA in LA, and since Jan. you have to wait a yr now for the D to be final...if I would have followed through in OCt., it would have been six months...

I have reached my limit...d-day was for the PA...the EA I knew about before the PA, and have been fighting alot longer...

It's time to face the music...I don't need someone who looks at me as an object... who is and has been emotional unavailable to me...who refuses to give me what I need but sucks up all of his needs...

Rin,

Hi there...been reading this thread...look at this love...oh, my. Great posts, posters...

What could I add?

I want you to recognize and state that you're in a spiral...a downward spiral.

There has been no real action taken differently to spiral...this is past stuff, not dealt with, which spirals you.

Good to know. I'm in a spiral really helps you...and it's what I heard you saying about your reactivity being way up.

When we let things lie...that's us lying to ourselves.

Good to know.

These issues are all one and not all one...contact, porn and AS...things your WH chooses to do from his wayward perspective...which is that he sees nothing wrong with creating and building resentment, into entitlement through a lack of respect.

Know his choices. He does this because he fears being controlled, feel like he's being treated like a child...and a child doesn't own his choices.

We don't, as children. Our siblings make us hit them, just like we make our parents disappointed.

Reasonable then. Not reasonable now.

In AS, MIM really nailed that SF is an emotional need...to not lose sight of that...you were working through that in yourself, finding your symbols, how to view SF as an intimate experience of connecting emotionally as well as physically.

How are you doing on that?

What is the symbol AS has for you? Demanding, earning, being taken from, made to do? Get to the symbol and then understand it for what it is...respect yourself and your desire to not do it. Reasonable choice made from reason...it disconnects, not connects. So it goes against your SF need, doesn't it?

And he doesn't like it, won't allow it, done to him. I'd say you're even.

Say, "I respect you don't want it done to you. I don't either. I want to figure out how we can make SF really rock together."

Same for porn and contact. Yes, out of your control...not out of your boundaries. You no longer allow yourself to view porn...that's your standard for you. Nor contact. So you can enforce those boundaries...

Not SD's...

And you're limiting your plan of action to either go or stay...which I don't understand why you'd want to tie yourself to two extremes...

There's staying in the same way...extreme one...there's staying not in the same way...more to the middle; there's staying in a new way with new tools (smack dab in the middle); there's not staying for two weeks...two months...forever...which is leaving, really.

You were at a juncture of tool acquisition...counseling, MC, Alanon, practicing your stuff, staying present...

Seeing your symbols...knowing if they were for old beliefs or new ones...

You wanted to stop believing love is earned...that we meet ENs from our own choice to act on our love and feel filled up from our own acts, spilling over...

How are you now with all you were doing?

"I must be naive..."

Only you define you...and if you choose to think that others prove to you that you are...then you're not defining YOU.

Yes, you've learned the other half of the abuse dance all your life...not just from WH...long before. You know this...and if you choose to be you're in Alanon for your FOO, not your marriage, your kids, your heart, your life...that's your choice. It's all one. You are all one, right now.

"I must really be naive like my H said b/c things can be great on the surface but if we talk about R/M...I cn point out the things I like about himand the things that bother me and all he hears is that I'm critizing him"

What did you just say here? That you can't control his perception? That he perceives, as you do, from a lifetime of not knowing you CHOSE how you perceive? You stopped...you realized you choose everything about you...your beliefs, thoughts, perspective...even your own perception. Doesn't mean he stopped choosing the same one. Not in your control. He has his own filter...focus on your own...are you coming from respect when you share good stuff about him...are you siding it to only be "good" not honest sharing? Do you keep to "I" statements or have you fallen back into "You" stuff...

And do you admire, appreciate and acknowledge as you go...not only in R/M talks...daily, are you staying aware of what you're really appreciating, admiring around you, about him, yourself, your kids, others? That's your awareness...your stuff...and you share it. You have that in your code. YOU know it's not criticism...and yes, we can hear the opposite of what's being said when we only hear stuff said to get us to feel admired or appreciated. If we're not hearing entire truth, we throw out the truth being heard, too.

We doubt. We do so as protection. We hear "you're not good enough" because in our heads, we are saying that to ourselves. In fact, half of the abuse dance is for YOU, Rin, to hear that in your head and your WH to confirm it aloud to you...makes you feel known, understood...okay, so you're not good enough...but you're alive!

Your focus, as AmI and others pointed out, is being swallowed up on HIM...recenter, breathe, state your spiral (which instantly makes you an observer instead of a blind participant)...

"and everythings about me right now, and I'm just looking for things to get a D..."

What is your boundary around abuse? Stating what another person's thoughts, beliefs, goals, feelings, perspective or perception is...defining others...is abusive. He stated your perspective for you...OUCH. He is stating his opinion as fact. OUCH.

Now...are you doing this, Rin? Are you defining him or others in your mind, your words...falling into assumption and mindreading...which is where we spiral...because if you are, and you're not checking yourself...then you CANNOT enforce your boundaries. That's the major power leak of the abuser's dance...if you choose the same steps, the dance continues.

Do that courageous inventory...realign through your focus, purge your intent...know where it was...what was leading it (like acting from your emotions instead of your intent, which IS reacting)...breathe. Breathe more.

Okay...so when you are defined, what is your first predetermined boundary enforcement which you do with everyone who defines you...not just WH? (Which is why it helps to have these set in general, and then make them specific, so they are within reach when our temperatures rise.)

If you won't hold yourself to boundary enforcements, you won't hold yourself to amends.

Those are all the steps inbetween staying and going...and you're not doing them.

Tell me something...you are recalling all his times of abuse...when AT the time (which is what I heard other posters say) you didn't enforce your boundaries. You chose not to. You were aware and you chose. Now you are using them to spiral yourself...further and further...where's the permission coming to use them against you, your marriage (they aren't happening right now) when you chose not to before? Imbalance in our permissions, our beliefs, our standards and boundaries, kick in a lot of pain signals, anger, frustration, reactions...all from fear...from the imbalance.

Within your control, your own balance.

Just like what Techie said...when you choose not to do something, your feelings drop, also...same for doing...first, there's awareness, then intent, then doing...letting the outcome go.

So, flip stuff over here...what is it you're seeing in WH? Him doing what hurts you...hurts your marriage...emotional and verbal abuse...first thing I do is see where I'm doing that same stuff...as if I'm getting a signal by recognizing it in WH...that's right, your villagers on parade...great check-up, no bash or judgment.

Because if they were aligned, you would have no spiral, pure clarity and enforce your boundaries.

You continue to stop yourself from doing just this...why not get to the crux of your choice...freedom through ownership?

"HE said then when I repeated what he said he said that's not what he said but he told me that if I refused to have anal SF with him, then he was going to continue to view porn on the net...that it wasn't like he was asking for it all the time that he just wanted it occasional..."

"Thank you for clarifying your choices. I know that your choice to use porn is yours alone. I know that nothing I do or don't determines your choice, only you do."

Flip this over...does it seem to be the same struggle you're having? If he makes contact, you let go...because of your past contact...he didn't enforce NC around you, you won't around him...seems win/win...and it isn't, 'cuz that's just tit for tat, giving to get...all that same spiraling stuff from before, back again, for an encore.

And I perceive you are rat-sick of encore performances.

Stop your own.

"I said that I refuse to do it and I believed that he would never understand how it hurt and was humiliating to me..."

Why did you abuse him this way? Determine his non-understanding...feeling YOUR hurt and humiliation? How does it serve you to define him, Rin?

Your accurate truth would be: "I am not choosing to do that now and I believe right now, you do not understand my pain, feeling humiliated>"

"I told him that I thought it was wrong of him to ask something of me that he knew I didn't like..."

Does he ask you to take out the trash? Do you ask him to clean out his vehicle after the kids have munched their way through stuff and left it a mess?

Like Techie said...he's asking. He cannot demand, make or threaten you...unless you choose to hear it that way. He can't make you take responsibility for his porn use unless YOU choose to take it...and you heard everybody, Don't!

Spiraling does this, btw. Takes everything and makes it old...so I may sound repetitive...I'm asking you to reorient...I only know one way...to keep restating...so when you need and want to hear it, it will be there.

"I have been fighting for this M but the same pattern repeats itself and I must be naive to think that things are going to change..."

There's that naive...when we're in our inner children, we are naive again...we are reactive, fearful, angry and spiraling...another signal of where you are thinking, perceiving from. You have the same power you've had all your life...to choose your HALF of the relationship...and you are refusing to do that...which is a signal you're into his stuff, feeling out of control because you're not in control of him, his choices...he may not believe he owns any part, no responsibility, all about you ('cuz his focus is all on you, which is why he can say stuff like "like this is all about you" 'cuz that's where he's dwelling)...says not one thing about The Truth of being human...remains his...unless you steal it from him in your head.

And if you do...it's still his.

LOL

KNOW YOUR OWN.

Look at this love here for you...feel ripe and full with it...it's real. Your half of abuse is critical to your personal and marital recovery...stop choosing the same steps, giving you the same reactions of old...'cuz that's old.

"I must really be stupid to keep thinking that we are working as a team..."

OUCHOUCHOUCH...see your own abuse? OUCH. Dang it, Rin...until you revoke your permission to abuse yourself, everyone else will have license to do so without boundary enforcements.

OUCH.

I physically, emotionally and mentally hurt...yes, you have the only power to define yourself..."stupid" is not within that power...judgment is not...OUCH. Dang it...I get tired of you doing this...your SELF, your sweet, innocent, completely made self is HURTING...and you're choosing to do it.

Does that finally sound familiar to ya, Rin? You're doing to self what WH does to you...and he's the problem??????

"H said that he gives me everything I want..."

"You're saying you give me everything you think I want."

"I agree and said yeah, material wise..."

Oh, what was I thinking...forget clarifying for his truth, just assume, agree (blindly) and then REFUTE him blindly.

Yeah, that's sarcasm...I'm raising my hand. I'm being reactive to your pain, your own abuse and his and watching you lie...well, I chose to abuse. Now, I can back up, edit...you can't. You had a conversation. I have a post. I'm leaving it in for honesty.

Clarity.

When you use others abusing you or themselves as an excuse to abuse...that's your signal to where your permissions are set at...I've removed mine for a lot of lower level stuff...takes time, repeats and what I perceive as a lot to get me there...not what you're doing right now, Rin...cumulatively, to date...all stacked up reached my permission to abuse. Good to know I still have it and it points me to where I need to work on...'cuz others' abusive choices are not mine. I got my own.

"He asked me what I wanted and I said a kiss on the nape of the neck while I'm cooking, hugs, kisses and not just pecks, a connection, intimacy..."

He asked...he heard...there's your appreciation and admiration on the fly, in time, in response...which makes it your response.

"We have these talks and he goes to the defensive and starts telling me that I'm only doing things for him right not b/c he's working nights...that I'm jealous of HN...then, when I repeat he says that's not what he said..."

If he clarifies instead of confirms, that's progress...this is the second time you've said this...can you own that you're repeating back, he's clarifying, and that's it good to know that's not what he intended to say? Half is your filter, half is his...hearing his words handed back gives opportunity for connection instead of disconnection.

So, he asks, he shares...and he's willing to clarify...get that part. He's sharing that he doesn't trust your love, feels like control...that you succor the downtrodden, not really love. That's his perspective and perception. That his belief you do this 'cuz it's you...like a magic fairy person...beyond your choice or control...drains the love deposit right out of it for him.

And he's doing that, not you.

Now...you can stop taking his dinner, connecting 'cuz he's working nights and that's a huge stressor on the marriage, all relationships, including parenting...and you choose to stop from RH...

"I won't be bringing you your dinner, calling you on the job, or _______ because I wasn't choosing to do them as my own acts of love, which filled me up...I was still doing them to get you to love me, want me, not OW. I was betraying myself. I want to get to where I was before...so when I brought your dinner, you'd know it wasn't 'cuz I'm that kind of person...you'd know I'm acting authentically from my love for you...my enjoyment, deep pleasure I have with you as my husband...my love."

Yeah...get honest, toots.

"How am I suppose to make progress when I am viewed as the enemy...and I told him that I think he sees me as the enemt sometimes and not as his W..."

You have never had, nor ever will have the power to make him progress...you're lying to yourself. Your power for progress within yourself remains total...under your control. Do you view yourself as the enemy when you call yourself names, abuse yourself? Are you making your own feelings, thoughts the enemy? Your focus sure is...all on him...focus as your enemy...rein it in, know your power...you choose to make your H your partner, your friend, an ally in your own mind...not the enemy. He chooses, as well. You can't make him choose to not see you as his enemy controller, annihilator, parent not partner.

You can, however, choose to share your journey at how often you choose to think of marriage as a battling, getting him to see, think, believe, realize, perceive...your way.

Tiring.

Exhausting what we do to ourselves, eh?

Until we know it's all us...inside...doing this and we stop.

Like breathing after great fear..."Oh, was I not breathing?" That simple. Your awareness drops and you spiral...that is the crucial difference between last week and today...and when you reached for awareness, you picked up judgment...put it down.

You will not judge a person into not abusing you.

You will not abuse a person into not abusing you.

When you stop abusing yourself and others, you stop taking abuse.

"I'm really the enemy b/c I'm not giving in and I'm taking a stand for myself..."

I see you taking a stand against yourself, your marriage and another human being.

"I really don't see how I can do this...stay Med..."

Choose to be really married, connected, separate, equal and whole...side by side? Have you really ever truly chosen that?

"and yet the I can't figure out how to go about getting a D...how do you figure out when to jump to save your life?"

You know when the threat is no longer in your head, but is surrounding you...like him throwing the bottle, breaking the glass...you didn't call for help. For documentation. You didn't enforce your boundaries then...and you're looking to do so now. It's not happening now. Predetermined means you walk through your levels, set your real permissions and THEN YOU HAVE TO DO THEM. WHETHER YOU WANT TO AT THE TIME OR NOT. YOU DO THEM BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU PROMISED YOURSELF, AHEAD OF TIME, WHEN YOU WEREN"T TRAPPED BY YOUR OWN FEAR AND SHOCK.

You looking out for you.

Choose that, Rin. You looking for you, inside and out, will also be you looking out for your kids, your marriage...your partner.

You really don't look out for him hurting himself...he does it, too...abuses himself inside...like you do...and then does it to others. No imbalance there. Lots and lots of pain, suffering, feeling inadequate, spiraling going on...and I don't here you relating any of that. Hearing and knowing it...

Acknowledging it.

"Then If I do file for D, will he burn the house down like he's said he would?"

Will that make it your responsibility, or his? You can only file for D when you know you are making that decision, your goal to divorce, without influence...solely your own. Harley says even divorces should be POJA'd.

"I'm unhappy, balling my eyes out and am so scared...I don't know what to do..."

Now, separate those two...you are crying, feeling pain, mighty fear...has nothing to do with doing...it's part of being. Trace the pain and the fear...know what it's signalling inside of you...get to your core truth, your beliefs, Rin. Look at them, find out if they are valid...if they come from your adult experience or your childhood...know before doing...two separate things.

"no, he didn't threat to burn the house down tonight...

I did ask him what happens when porns not good enough...when it doesn't do the trick anymore...of course, I didn't get an answer..."

Is there an answer to a DJ? Porn is a symbol...it's a distraction...like a drug...to change something in ourselves, usually a feeling. How can you know when you don't even know what he's distracting from?

"I've been watching his useage...sometimes everyday, sometimes every other day...for at least an hour...usually more..."

You know I've walked this road, too. I'm not telling you anything you don't already really know...and when I KNEW, inside and out, I had no control...changed myself...that's when things changed. Not me doing it. My DH couldn't have stopped without his counselor, his own choice...getting underneath the porn to the feelings...

Why only we can find our own freedom and live in it.

"I strongly believe that he has an addiction...I haven't said anything about it in months to him and today I mentioned it b/c I had to take care of something that he would have had time to do had he used his time appropriately..."

Judgment...from where? Benefits YOU how?

"no I didn't say it like that...I said that I was angry that he asked me to strap the ramp down that had to be delivered to our friend b/c he said that he didn't have time when he used his time to look at T&A."

And you chose to do it...know your choice. You could have chosen not to...see where your acts can appear to be of you, as if you have no control, aren't choosing? No had to be delivered to it...get set on your have to's...know them for the choices they are...and not letting go the outcomes they are, as well.

"It was crazy and I can't even remember what all was said b/c I let myself get so upset"

Again, not letting...letting yourself react to your upset emotions. To act or speak from them, not from love.

Clarity. No bashing.

"and I told him Good night and not more than a minute later he was calling me back and telling me if I wanted a D then to just go ahead and do it and stop looking for things to b)tch at him about. I remember talking about how I thought that M was suppose to be two people talking about what bothers them, working it out, coming to a compromise..."

So he gave you permission to D? He feels you are criticizing him, bitching at him, tearing him down? Good to know. Doesn't mean you're doing it...is worth a doublecheck inside...afterall, you do that yourself.

Why would you even say what you thought about marriage as if it was a belief based on his actions? You do believe marriage is about partnering, side by side...you are committed to sharing all of yourself...not just what bothers you...your journey. There is no compromise required when you OWN your stuff, Rin. It's yours.

"MY honest to GOD belief that he wanted me to file for D so that he doesn't look like the bad guy..."

That is an honest to God DJ...and I'm going to flip that back onto you and ask...is that part of what is stopping you, to look to others like a possible bad guy?

"that I'm the one who doesn't take care of him, and I'm the one who won't give him ASF, the reasons why our friends don't come around more often..."

Here is where I blow another gasket...why did you ask others for their reasons, opinions, taking what he said as the truth instead of his perception? Why would you do that? What others choose, they choose...why are YOU choosing to take his stuff over your own again? What have you been doing to yourself which is so bad you gotta beat yourself down with that choice? OUCH!

"I hear what he says...I can't even count the times that I told him that he was assuming that I was doing or saying something to whatever...he even agreed with me at one point that he was..."

Which doesn't change anything. He does. You do. Your control is to choose to not DJ, not strike or harm yourself or your family...your choice. His remains his own...sounds like he could see it at one point.

"He told me that he would give me what I wanted if he got what he wanted to F me the a..."

"Good to know you believe in trading love, not acting from love. Thank you for sharing."

"I am not respected,"

Do you respect yourself, your partner, other people...are you seeing him as the capable, equal person you are? If you respect yourself, you will feel respected.

Lesson 101...are you loving yourself?

"I am expected to cater to his needs without getting what I need and I know that is so wrong..."

I call you on this major BS statement...that DJ creates and builds resentment, poisoning you into spirals and blaming him for what you created, nurtured, nourished and grew. Stop it.

Your responsibility is to know what you need, what you want, and to check FIRST if you are giving all those things to yourself...including respect, love, ownership, appreciation, admiration, attention, acknowledgment...

"I know that I deserve so much more..."

There's your WW mindset in plain view.

"and I keep thinking that if I change enough become the best person that I can that it will amke a difference and it's not...I'm lieing to myself..."

You already are a best person...you were born that way. Your responsibility is to get back to that person, that self, and stop abusing, commanding, demanding and harming yourself. Your choice. Taking poison harms self. Not respecting because you don't feel respected harms self. Not loving because you don't feel loved...take everything you feel and see if you're predicating on getting...giving to get...and know where your spiral began...and see where it is paralleled in what your WH is saying...trading love, not living it.

Your choice.

"He has no reason to want better and there's nothing wrong with him..."

He's correct...there is nothing wrong with him...he is whole, complete and marvelously made. His essence is fine. His actions are deplorable. Until you can be clean on your side, you can't point out his stuff...

"I realized, WH, that I'm doing what I perceive you are doing...trading for love. Earning love and punishment. I'm astonished because I knew this and when I stopped practicing it, I reverted back to not acting from it so I lost it. Wow. I think I've been making your actions about you, as a person. I didn't respect you are not what you choose to do...you are my equal. I can feel you control me when I don't see my choices. I know, though, you cannot. Nor I, you."

Sharing is the act of acknowledgment and freedom. I don't think you've been sharing your authentic self...I believe what got you here was your self-image...trundling along, happy to be back in charge of your own treason.

"No time for should of huh? Like I should have followed through with the D when I had the money and the appt...

I need to calm down, so I can stop blowning my nose, and go to sleep...I can figure out what to do next tomorrow...and I think it's time to keep my mouth shut..."

How's that plan working for you?

"He'll start been nice in a few days and he fills my LB so fast...we have a b-day party to go to Sat. and a poker run for Sun..."

You fill your love bank so fast by your interpretation of his actions...maybe a lot more high honesty in yourself won't have you choosing crumbs...may be this time was necessary, again, until you choose highest truth, instead.

You have strength...you've grown huge muscles working yourself over...less strength, more clarity. It's weightless...may not feel kind...will feel secure from truth.

You aren't bad or wrong...you're harming yourself and feeling harmed...living from your feelings will get you here every time...instead of living in truth, acting from love.

Not trading it.

You can do this, Rin...you can stop your spiral by taking one step to your left and feeling your legs on the ground...your arms hugging yourself...making amends to the person you've harmed most...you. Great choice from a great person. One step. You can up your awareness through that same choice...awareness on high...to see clearly...to know...not to judge. When your awareness drops, so do you...into a spiral.

You know the cause, now, choose the cure. You do this for yourself...you're human. This IS growing through knowing. You are signalling yourself mightily...take notice...listen...learn...know and trace those signals.

That's how we get clear of all the debris we're spinning in...and own it.

LA

Rin,

You are getting some wonderful guidance here. You are a very important person, to many, so move swiftly, quietly, and use calculation with every move.

My best girlfriend was in a very abusive R with a man that used IV drugs and was emotionally and physically abusive. Things were going swimingly between the two of them (no abuse, great times together, no drug use) until she became pregnant. He THEN became controlling and abusive, while she was in a VULNERABLE state. I convinced her to move in with me, and get a restraining order against him. He did not know me well, didn't know my last name, and had no idea where I lived. I was, basically, her shelter for a little over 8 months in 2006.

She is fighting him for FULL custody of their son (he's been in and out of jail) and is working to keep the restraining order current.

I have to tell you, I, personally, cringe when I think of AS. I'm no prude, but it is a VULNERABLE position to be in, painful, and vulnerable. I have never considered such a sex act intimate. I think of it more as a control issue, and somewhat of a sadistic thing----However, this is only MY opinion of that particular sexual act. I look at it as DOMINANCE, not a loving act. In many ways, I think that SEX PLAY is great, it's a good time to express yourselves together, collectively, but I think AS is outside of that realm, as it is PAINFUL, and can be crude.

I have also heard you speak of your H bashing things in the house (that table we heard about, what else haven't we heard about?). Threats are NOT loving, NEVER EVER! You are telling yourself all of these things. You ARE NOT WRONG to think of his actions as abusive. Attempting to strike fear in you by fortelling what his actions may be if you do leave (burning down the house) EVEN IN JEST is cruel.

You deserve to feel good inside and to be happy. You are VALUABLE, beautiful, human and good. I'm sorry that I have not posted to you this week; please know that I have been reading and keeping up, but I was so angry at what I was reading, that I needed to calm myself.

You see, I have NEVER been abused by a man, but I have seen it waged upon my mother and sister, and I become a bit enraged when I hear about someone that I care about being hurt. It hurts me, in that way. I've seen my sister bruised and battered and heard some dastardly things spewed in her direction. Seeing this helped me to make decisions about the people in my life, and how I wanted to be treated, AND how I would treat others. Luckily for me, I had decided on the higher, sometimes tougher ground, but many who witness this behavior choose to emulate it later in life, rather than deflect it. That is why it is of the utmost importance that your children learn how dangerous abusive behavior is, AND WHAT may constitute ABUSE.

Rinder

this is the first time, in 2 years of my being on this site, that i can't and won't, advise or support your staying in a marriage with this man.

everyone has a right to feel safe

safety is NOT going to be found with this man

LA- That's alot to chew on and think about...I will say that it is not often that I critize myself like that it's not in my nature to think of myself as stupid...

I KNOW that I am not...I know that I am intellect and that's something that I have in my favor...

It's like Frog was saying when his W would DJ him so many times that he would DJ back...not a good choice but I moved my buttons andwas going great using the glass wall and then I just moved them back and let my guard down...

SL- The table...he swiped everything off the table and it fell across the room, something from it broke the glass in the entertainment center...

Most of what I am dealing with is intimidation from my POV...if I stay I'm happy until I complain that something it bothering me, which is really enforcing my boundaries...

I was talking with my boss today and I said that she has seen my grown up being with the company for six years...she has seen me aquire new tools and grow...and perhaps my fears are child based...I really don't think go...I don't trust him even thought he has not put his hands on me...I believe that out of despair he could do anything...

I'm not going to put anything passed him...

I am attending a meeting tonight...the kids are coming with me and my S is going to watch the kids in the back room and play with them...there will be a lady there and her H is a lawyer...I'm going to ask her advise on who to use...instead of calling my parents and asking for the money this time...I learned that my cousin is paying his lawyer monthly, so I would like to do this...

That way, if I reneg then it's on me, and I will feel better that I have handled my problems by myself...

I only believe that he will go crazy if I leave and have him serviced...

Oh, I have to go pick F up and get to my meeting...

Eav- Thank you for your thoughts on the sitch...I appreciate it...I think that it's overdue to take some actions...

((Rin))

Times like this I hide in my music and listen to God speak.

Wish I had more to offer - looks like LA covered a lot!

Rin,

I don't understand your reply. I hear you're making the choice to divorce. So you do know what you are doing.

I perceive you're no longer spiraling...am I close?

LA

WEll, I've made a decision and have to make a very important call tomorrow...then I will call my sponsor back and keep her updated...

I have a good meeting, I feel strong and believe my head is screwed back on straight...I have a plan to find the information I need and that will help me determine my next step...

This is what's right for me, what I need, and I feel that I have done the best that I can...I need to care for me and my kids...

I have to detach, heal, and move forward...

As the day as gone along, I have recentered and gaining clarity...thinking straight...

I don't want to say to much b/c I feel that I have to cover my tracks...heck, I've been covering my tracks for a while...deleting MB history, I have felt the need to hide my books...

There's a pattern here that has got worse and I don't want to find out what's next...

I'm even thinking about changing my screen name sometime soon...

E-I have been listening to y-radio for two days at work...it's the inspiration...I plan to lean on his shoulder, walk with my hand in his, b/c I know that the valley may look horible deep right now, but once I get to the other side it won't look so deep...and I'll be just fine...

MIMI, I think I had something doable...and it's making me feel better...if I go this route I think I'll be safer than the one I was thinking, given his past history of tracking me down and stuff, I felt trapped...

I heard LA say in my head "We can feel something and know that it's not true!"

I'm really going to have to work on identifying what my choices are in any given sitch...I've talked to F about that several times here lately with his behavior with L...I'm not sure that it's a matter of opening your mind and seeing them...

LA- Truth of the matter, I was bring H lunch b/c I wanted to...I got to see him and talk to him for a few minutes...I enjoyed that...All in all this is NOT the type of M that I want to be in and it's already been stated that H has no intentions of changing, that he is fine with himself...H, I can not change what I can change is my sitch...

I'm gathering my tools world look out...

Hi, LA...yeap, I got the hopper on...you heard me...some of what I said may change about the lawyer and such...but I feel safer this way and I'm setting up my support group...I have all the documention that I need...

UH, H came home to get his truck, rode his bike to work, and it's getting really foggy outside...

He acted like nothing's wrong...kisses me, grabbed some stuff to read...HD hogtales magazine...

Then, reminded me that we have that poker run this weekend and I needed to decide what to do...I said about what...he asked if I was coming and I said that I have schedule a babysitter last night for Sat. (we have a B-day party for one of our friends) and Sun. for the poker run...

He said he didn't remember me telling him that and that's cool...

It's in my best interest if I go with the flow right now...until I get my ducks in a row...so there is no confrontations...better safe than sorry right?

The pattern is that he is getting more aggressive...this is not okay with me...

Rinder,

I'm casser'd again, but still managed to check up on you. If you have done all you can do and you think it is time to move on then I support you. I have a timeline in my head that is subject to change, but I don't know if I can last as long as you did so take that for what it's worth. I know you will continue to use this forum for support and I'm sure everybody wants you to. We're all rooting for you.

Good Luck and Be Safe

Thank you, I couldn't find the website I was looking for but found some great info on RO and the types...LA law and what to expect...

Are you at the workboat show? My company attended that ne year...had a fabulous time...but oh, man did my feet hurt?