I'm out of the house!

Court date April 27th...the judge will be granting me and the kids use of the house from there...

The joke was that he could think that Surviving an affair and his needs, her needs were man hating books...

I don't think that burning the books was anything to laugh about....that was very damaging to ME...

S4B... you asked for my advice... this man needs to be a distant memeory in your life and you NEED physical barriers (distance and restraining orders) to keep him away. He is very dangerour in my opinion.
He said some unbelievable things. He needs serious psychological help. I can tell you that he is one lucky man that you are not family to me.
Let me say this plainly so that I get my point across... he will eventually kill you if you go back to him. Somewhere, somehow a screw came loose in that boys head and it needs to be tightened.
Go rent the movie "Enough" if you haven't seen it.
If there is anything I can do to help you please let me know.
I am sorry you must live in fear of this man right now. Take every step that you can to protect you and the kids (and I can tell you that he would NEVER get close to those kids again in a perfect world... see what you can do to make that happen).

MEDC

Oh, and I really don't think he will have the "courage" to do anything right now. What will drive him is this obsession to control you and the more you slip away, the more he will struggle to get a hold. It's called breakthrough behavior. Whatever grip he had before, if you were to ever go back... he would eventually tighten even further since he (in his warped way of thinking) came close to losing you will think he needs to be more controlling.

He may one day learn to love with an open palm... but that is not your problem.

MEDC

MEDC-

Thanks you very much for the validation...I HAVE NO intentions of ever returning...I'm out and I will stay out...

I'm just trying to get an idea of what I'm dealing with...

I see him for who he is now...and I feel that I can't kick myself to hard for not seeing it sooner because I have to believ that God allows us to see what we can handle when we can handle it...

I have MB to thank for my growth and strenght!

I totally understand what you meant about the book thing.

Honey, you have already done the hardest thing -- you left. That is a huge step and you did it !!!

Aren't we soooo lucky to be here with all these wise people guiding us ?? I thank God every day for drawing me to this place.

Bless you and your children

Thanks Carnation! I am blessed to be her...

I remember the first person that talked to me here...Longhorn...and LovingAnyway has been a great blessing...I learned so much from her...then, I have a long list from there...

Mimi, has helped me too...when I was ready to face my true fears about STBXH...and all of my teachings has been reinforced through my Al-anon group...

I also agree that it was really hard to take that step and talk to someone at the shelter, work out a plan, and then follow through with it...

I was telling a friend the other day that the valley looked so deep when it was right in front of me and when I was in it, but now that I've gotten to the other side and look back, it doesn't look so deep...

With all the pain and suffering that I have gone through finding out about his A, I wouldn't change it for nothing in the world in my case...it was the beginning of the tunnel for me...

MEDC- Can you explain more about breakthrough behavior or offer somewhere I can read more about it? I'm having trouble finding anything.

THank you all for ALL of your support, the influence that you have all made in my life is an awesome thing for me!

Oh, I wanted to say that the thought has been playing on my mind about getting my A to have STBXH get a psychologial evaluation...

I understand that it will drive the cost of the D up but feel that it's worth it in the long run!

Hi, I have something else that is bothering today, well, actually bothering me for awhile.

I would like to maintain my relationship with my FIL and MIL. I have thought about emailing her. Tomorrow, F will be getting his report card and I think it's a good opportunity to fax that to her...

I have thought about emailing her a link to VA and letting her read it for herself. SHe had a horrible time with her XH, STBXH's father, he did some trash to her...

It's really important to me that I explain to her why I'm making the decision that I am. Tell her what has been going on...

ANy ideas on how I should handle this, what I should say...perhaps my FIL would be more understanding, he's actually STBXH's stepfather...his parents Ded after 25 yrs. of M, MIL left in fear also...I think that they would understand...

http://www.amie.org/abuse/abuser.shtml




The terminology is something we used on the police department. It most likely has no connection to any medical term. I have attached a link that decribes behaviors very well.

http://au.geocities.com/tigrispoet/whatisdv.htm

Hey Strivn,

May I suggest re-reading Medc post at least 5 more times. Real slowly. There's REALITY in those words.

Getting the evaluation is a very good idea. Quality/Expertise of who does the evaulation is a critical factor.Worth the cost in the long run.

I posted this link to Stressed Wife.(Who wouldn't be!)


Dr. Harely Sr. radio audio broadcast on the subject DV/abuse.


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

Thank you guys very much...

MEDC...I like the first link better, I can go throught with yes and no's...

Sky- I'm going to listen to that as soon as I can...I'm in the middle of the office, LOL, which makes it a little difficult...

Any suggestions on MIL, and stepFIL?

IL's will always be a part of you through your kids. So a healthy R with them is important. As for as explaining your self, maybe that's for the experts. I would think you should at least ask them if they want explanation. Make yourself available to answer any questions they want to ask.

If you've had a good R with them in the past, I don't see them turning on you.

Thanks for the link, MEDC...

"Characteristics That Might Identify A Potential Abuser
FAMILY HISTORY: Has your partner reported being physically or psychologically abused as a child? Was your partner's mother abused? A family history of abuse is a significant predictor for a person to become an abuser as an adult.

JEALOUSY: Is your partner jealous when you spend time with friends and/or family? Does your partner constantly accuse you of flirting with others? Does he call you frequently during the day? An abuser will probably tell you that jealousy is a sign of love and concern. In fact, jealousy has nothing to do with love; it's a sign of possessiveness and lack of trust.

CONTROLLING BEHAVIOR: Does your partner become angry when you don't listen to his advice? Is your partner angry when you are a little late coming home from an appointment or shopping? Does he control all the money? Do you have to ask permission to leave the house? Are you afraid when your partner becomes angry with you? At first, abusers will explain that controlling behavior is motivated by their concern for their partner's safety or the need to make good decisions. Rather than expressing concern for the partner, controlling behavior shows a deep lack of respect for the partner. It fulfills the need of the abuser to dominate, rather than fulfil the needs of the victim.

QUICK INVOLVEMENT: Did your partner "sweep you off your feet?" Did your partner proclaim his or her love for you before the two of you had spent enough time together to get to know each other? Did your partner pressure you to commit to the relationship before you felt ready to do so? Were you made to feel guilty by your partner if you wanted to slow down your involvement with him? Many abused people dated or knew their abusers for less than six months before they were married, engaged, or living together.

ISOLATION: Is being with your family and friends "more trouble than it's worth" because of your partner's jealousy? Does he constantly criticize the people who support you or try to undermine your trust in them? Does he try to keep you from going to work or school? An abusive person will try to cut the victim off from all resources, especially friends and family. An abuser knows that the more contact a victim has with others, the more likely she is to defy the abuser or to leave.

BLAMES OTHERS FOR PROBLEMS: Does your partner blame you for his mistakes? Does your partner feel life is unfair and someone is out to get him? Does your partner find it difficult to take responsibility for his actions? Abusive people do not hold themselves accountable for the abuse they commit, and rarely take responsibility for their actions. After being blamed and criticized for everything she does, the victim will eventually internalize these false messages and begin to believe that she is responsible for ending the abuse that is committed against her.

HYPERSENSITIVITY: Does your partner perceive slight setbacks as personal attacks? Is your partner easily insulted? Does your partner lose his temper frequently and more easily than seems normal? Abusers typically have low self-esteem. Their self-confidence may be so fragile that even constructive criticism is seen as a threat."

Wow...these were all yes's for me...meaning, for my DH...I was the abuser.

"CRUELTY TO ANIMALS OR CHILDREN: Does your partner seem insensitive to the pain and suffering of animals? Does he expect children to do things beyond their ability? Does he tease children until they cry? Insensitivity to children or animals is common in abusers because abusive people are generally not considerate of the feelings of others. 60% of men who beat the women they are with also beat their children."

I never hit my DH...I did hit my children.

"PLAYFUL" USE OF FORCE IN SEX: Does your partner like to throw you down and/or hold you down during sex? Does he want to act out fantasies during sex in which you are helpless? Does he ever try to manipulate you into having sex when you are not in the mood by using sulking or anger? Abusers enjoy having power over their partners, and sex is one way in which they can feel in control. Many abusers find the idea of rape exciting. Rape, like abuse, is about power over another person."

This wasn't true for us...except maybe the sulking part (distancing) and that would have been on my DH's part when I was using SF as a weapon.

"VERBAL ABUSE: Does your partner say things that are cruel and hurtful? Does he degrade you or put you down? Does he tell you that you are stupid, lazy or clumsy?"

I definitely defined DH...didn't call him stupid, lazy or clumsy...there are a thousand other definitions I used to abuse him, through labels.

"The abuser wants his partner to be dependent on him/her."

This was so hard to admit to when I realized I was abusive...all I could detect was my overwhelming fear of abandonment...and HE was the one who was hurting ME...so yes, this one was under the radar for me totally. I do believe it was part of my purpose.

"He will try to undermine his partner's self-confidence by putting her down, making fun of her, demeaning her, embarrassing her in public, and/or calling her names."

Acting like a mother to a grown man in public...that would have been me...and oddly enough, my DH craved self-confidence the most...I said a lot of confidence-building praise, admiration, etc...and it was mine to build and take away. How awful was that?

"RIGID SEX ROLES: Does your partner expect you to serve him? Does he say that you must obey him in all things because you are a woman? Does he/she insist that you stay at home and discourage you from working?"

Nope...none of this or the animals/children...however:

"Abusers sometimes see women as inferior to men and unable to function as a whole person without a relationship."

I definitely saw men as weaker, unable to function as whole people without a relationship. And I knew I was awful on my own...didn't know I was WORSE in one.

"They accept this reasoning as an excuse to abuse and dominate their partners."

This, I don't understand...I had a lot of excuses to abuse...most was he made me...punish to protect...if only he'd change...

"DR. JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE: Are you confused by your abuser's "sudden" changes in mood? Is he extremely moody and prone to unexpected explosions of anger? Many women think that their abuser has some special mental problem because one minute he's nice, and the next he's exploding. Moodiness is typical of batterers, and it is related to other characteristics of abusers, such as hypersensitivity."

To a "T"...my LBs were as sudden as a dust storm and so was the weeping (which I blamed DH for)...and yes, we blamed it on hormones, my upbringing, when it was all along my choices...my permissions and perceptions.

"PAST BATTERING: Has your abuser admitted to hitting women in the past? He may say that they "made him do it.""

Naw...mine excuse was "I can't believe I did that! I don't do that!" and said, "Well, that's only four times in my life." What a write-off.

"Have you heard from relatives or an ex-spouse/girlfriend that your partner is abusive? Situational circumstances do not make a person an abuser. A batterer is likely to beat any woman he is with if the relationship lasts long enough for the violence to begin."

I believe I would have gotten there myself...honestly...within the last two years had it not been for MB, counseling and waking up.

"BREAKING OR STRIKING OBJECTS: Does your partner destroy objects you value? Does he beat the table with his fists or throw objects around or near you? The abuser may use this behavior to punish his partner, but it is also intended to frighten the woman into submission. The abuser feels that he has the "right" to punish or frighten his partner."

I learned the huge relief in throwing plastic plates...and shocked myself...that wasn't patterned for me...but I did intimidate through body language...the slamming stuff, violent facial and arm gestures...very dramatic...trying to get my DH to FEEL my pain, not just hear me state it.

"ANY FORCE OR THREAT OF FORCE DURING AN ARGUMENT: Does your partner ever physically restrain you from leaving a room, push you or shove you? Does he ever hold you down or hold you against the wall saying something like "You are going to listen to me"? This is not only a form of control, it is an indication that your partner is willing to use force to maintain control over you. In abusive relationships, violence frequently escalates. It may begin with a push or a slap, but it can become much more violent!"

This wasn't applicable...though my DH experienced not being able to leave a room if I was in it and upset...he felt captive...so I'm sure I verbally manipulated through guilt a lot, my defining him.

"THESE ARE NOT DEFINITE SIGNS THAT YOUR PARTNER IS AN ABUSER, ONLY THAT HE HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BECOME ONE."

Oh, these definitely fit my life...and these actions are abusive.

Source: Surviving Domestic Violence: A Resource Book for Avalon Clients.

Why would I own this on Rin's thread instead of MEDC's DV one? I think because it was important to me to show who I was...not by "nature" a stick-it-through friend...and to show these really are choices...to act abusively or not. And these signs are important...because they were all permitted by me, for me, to myself and others.

Does not excuse being reared this way, re-enacting from fear...because I had several chances to hear what I was doing was harmful and I chose not to listen...until I lost my whole world...and then I heard the pain and it was soul-crushing.

S4B's WH chooses not to hear...and he knows...was stated...plainly...this is abuse...stop it. And says nothing that losing his whole world will be why he chooses to hear...or continue to not hear.

And because my DH didn't have boundaries or boundary enforcements, was permissive and accepting, found it convenient to blame me for his pain (rather obvious) rather than his choice to accept my abuse...we went on like this for 15 years...so healthy boundaries matter...they truly are essential...to love and to be loving...

Oh, my...I was energetic about writing this...not I am terrified to post it...crying at work again...lol...okay. Here's to honesty and sharing, honestly.

LA

Stivn,

I don't know if this is what MEDC means by "breakthrough behavior" but here's what my exH did:

At first he tried to "woo" me back into the old cycle (I called this "The Dance" in my head): hearts and flowers and promises it will never happen again--a period of being okayish, but distant--tension building--explosion of anger and blame--hearts and flowers and promises it will never happen again, etc. That's "The Dance", but what I began to notice is that the "hearts and flowers" part was growing shorter (he was doing less and less) and the time to the explosion was also growing shorter. Furthermore, the explosion was getting bigger and scarier.

Soooo...when I first started standing up for myself, he'd just lengthen the "hearts and flowers" part a bit, and I'd have hope that he "really meant it" this time...and I'd get back in "The Dance." Then he'd do it again, and the next time, I wouldn't believe as quickly...but I really WANTED him to mean it, so eventually I'd believe. THEN, he would give me guilt when I didn't believe fast enough...and I'd believe. THEN, he would make promises and even do some actions...and I'd believe. Every time, he got me to re-engage in "The Dance"! The last time, I had a list of things that I wanted him to do, and by golly if he didn't take the first step on every single thing in my list! I took this to be real progress, so I agreed to re-engage, and sure enough...he quit everything and returned to what HE wanted to do and "forgot" what I had on my list!! I was responsible to "remind" him and if he didn't keep a commitment it was because I didn't "remind" him enough!!

Once I got wise to "The Dance" I have to admit I was a little amused to watch him try all his old tricks to get me to re-engage. He tried "hearts and flowers" (like calling me my nicknames and using that voice); when that didn't work, he tried to do a LITTLE of what he knew I wanted to show a sincere change (I was wise to that trick); when that didn't work, he tried saying, "Do I have to be PERFECT? Doesn't progress toward the goal count?" (NO, it doesn't count because you quit)...etc. etc. And when none of those worked, he tried to show he was still in control by closing bank accounts and turning off utilities in his name.

When THAT didn't get me back in line, THAT is when some of the really scary stuff started happening.

He had moved out and was renting a house with a male friend of his. They were two middle-aged men playing "young and single" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, he was living elsewhere of his own volition, so I changed the locks. He came over one night and wanted to be able to walk in whenever he wanted to, and I said no, so he started to freak out. I told him 12 TIMES that if he did not leave I was calling the police, yet as I dialed 9-1-1 in front of him, he continued to carry on. When the police arrived, he was FURIOUS that I had actually called them (I did it in front of him) -AND- he now blamed me for him having a DV record.

A day or two thereafter, I awoke with him sitting beside my bed and saying, "I just wanted you to know that any time I want to get into my Goll Darn house, I will." That scared me silly.

A day or two thereafter, he broke into the house and deleted my desktop hard drive. He claimed it was his and he did not want me using "his stuff" as evidence against him. Luckily I had printed most of the stuff I needed--and had most saved to disk too.

A day or two thereafter, he broke into the house again and said he could steal the kids while I was sleeping and I'd never see them again.

That was the day I got my restraining order.

One day our toilet overflowed while I was at work, and the kids--in a panic--called their dad to help them with the flooding toilet. He brought a sledgehammer over and started hammering the walls all over the house. I had to leave work, call the police, meet them at the house, and calm two FREAKED OUT kids (not to mention deal with destroyed walls).

I'm not sure what he was thinking with the sledgehammer, but I think most of the other behavior was intended to intimidate me back into joining "The Dance"--and when I wouldn't, he applied more and more pressure and intimidation. Thus, I BELIEVE that MEDC is trying to warn you that most likely the heat will go way up before it goes down.

There was one funny thing though. He would threaten and scream and rant...but then in the presence of police or a judge, he would completely knuckle under--as if all the rest was just hot air leading up to "the authorities", but once in the presence of "the authorities" he behaved. OTOH, I was exactly the same person whether in front of him or in front of "the authorities." It was weird.

Hope that's helpful! Praying for your safety today and tonight!

Your faithful friend,


CJ

Because it shows the whole tit for tat...I've owned in the past that I would not do things or do things to punish him...

What we see in others is usually in ourselves!

OH LA! ((((((((((((((((LA)))))))))))))

What an open and honest response!

You brought up one of my favorite pet-peeves too--that not all abusers are men and not all victims are women. OFTEN the W thinks she has the perfect right to hit, punch, or throw things at her H because "he's the man and he's so much bigger than me" but by god, a W can be just as abusive as a H.

Thank you for your post. It's not very often that an abuser opens their eyes and changes, but it is possible. Yes--it is a CHOICE, and they can learn to stop.

~~CJ

I wanted to say that I am proud of you too LA. I meant to say thank you for sharing...

It means alot to me...

Well, i have to go get the kids, I had more to say but don't have the time right now!

((((LA))))

Exactly.

LA... that took a lot of courage to write! Thanks. I know how you must have worked to become the wonderful person and spouse you are today.

MEDC

OMG...CJ...I would have to "remind" him of things...whether it was fixing something, well, anything...

And the sledgehammer...WOW, I dreamed STBXH did that!

ANyway, thanks I really get the picture now...and appreicate it...I don't think he'll give up easily...

Well, I have to go feed the kids...

Wish I could give you all hugs in person! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />