I had to jump in to this Louisiana Exchange briefly to comment on how much I love the fact you always title your post "Surprising Update!" Very eye-catching, I'm always looking forward to the upbeat news that comes outta this thread. You've done very well in this, it's a fun thread.

Back to your regularly scheduled Louisiana Exchange program...(What? No love for Texas?)

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

LMAO...Jayban...you are awesome man!

Yes, I love the BIG state of TX! My parents live there...south of San ANtonio...

Feel free to add a commercial if you'd like...always up for a good laugh!

"Be careful with the plastic eggs too. They may not offend your S, but they hurt like HE11!! comin out."

Oh, my ..... this made the tea come out my nose!!
Very funny!!!


You're doing great, Rin. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Sounds like a fabulous weekend!


-AmI.

(((Rin)))

Just wanted to let you know that I think you are doing great. Stay strong.

HI, AmI...good to see you around even if is with tea out of your NOSE! LMAO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lizzie, thank you that means alot coming from you and all your experience! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'll have to catch up of you!

Do you know that I am a MAJOR MARIAH CAREY FAN? I went to her concert in September. Don't get me started!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

gO mimi! Well, I think that her song fits like a glove right now...

I bet the concert was amazing!

I've been thinking about adding some more songs to my sig line! Yep! Gotta do it!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I was thinking at lunch..."What if I run into STBX?"

You know at the store or something like that...

I'm not comfortable talking or seeing him yet...

I mean if it's about the kids that's fine...but I know if he starts talking to me about us, I'm going to get upset or at least I think I will...

He use to tell me that I was running away from my problems...I believe that I have faced my problems and have tried to DO something about them...

I guess I need to know if this is normal to feel this way...

I was reading that this could be a part of unexpressed anger...I really don't know...very seldom to I feel mad at him anymore...

I just don't think that there's anything left to tlak about...

I was thinking about this b/c I was running errands on this side of town...it would be really easy to run into him...

And I still have the Restaining order in effect...

It's interesting how different people, can view the same situation, very differently.
You've made your choice. It's your choice to make.
I am making no statement here about whether that choice was good or bad.
My view of it, however, is that the choice you have made, is to "run away, and live at the place where you stop running."
Well, ok, maybe "walk away", rather than "run", is a more accurate statement <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I don't see how you can describe what you have done as "facing" your problems... when the embodiment of your problems is your husband, and you literally are avoiding "facing him". In your very same post, you are describing your thoughts in how much you are trying to avoid seeing him face to face.
(you are even avoiding a non-physical "face-off")

You've made a choice, to "handle" your problems, in a particular way. That's your choice to make. I don't see how your choice could be accurately described as "facing" your problems, though.

Hey, Rin.

With that RO in effect, you need to be pretty careful. If you happen to bump into him, then you leave right away. Don't stop to have a conversation or confront him. If you see his car in the grocery store parking lot, then you just keep driving.

Obviously the RO applies to him -- it says he has to stay away from you -- but judges don't look kindly on women who get RO's and then only want them enforced when it's convenient.

FWIW, I disagree with Techie. I think that standing up and saying "This is abuse and I will do what I have to do to stop it" definitely qualifies as facing your problems. You don't have to go toe-to-toe with an abuser, or sign up for more abuse, or become your own vigilante committee in order to "face" a problem.

IMO, not facing the problem would be staying there, pretending it's ok for him to carry on his A, search for new A partners, destroy things when he gets angry, etc.

I guess I view the sitch very differently than techie.

-AmI.

Well, that's a different way of not facing it.

When a problem's coming at you from the North.. you can face it... or face East... or face West... or South... or South-West... or...

Ami,

I concur with you.

IMVHO Rin faced her problems with the WH. That didn't work. She was presented with a choice run away from her problems and stay M'd to him.

Or Face her problems and leave.

Once Rin decided to face her problems and leave her lawyer can talk for her.

She gave the Man a chance. He wasted his chance now it is over.

Where does it say you have to ever speak with the WS again, other then custody issues, after a D?

I can tell you if the FWW and I ever got a D, I wouldn't want to talk to her or see her other then when we are exchanging the kids or information about the kids.

So Rin I think you are facing your problems. Good for you.

Is it so difficult, to say that She "dealt" with her problems, yet didnt "face" them?
I don't understand the sudden difficulty people seem to be having, with the definition of "face".


You can stay in a marriage, and still not "face" the problems in it.
You can leave a marriage, and still not "face" the problems in it.

OR.. people can ALSO face the problems in the marriage, confront them.. and if the problems seem to be too great, then leave after all.

Rin chose not to face the problems after D-day, but just "accept" them.
Then more recently, Rin chose not to face the problems, but just "leave" them. She decided that facing them would be more of an effort than it was worth to her, and so she didnt do so.

Ok. her choice. fine. I can see how people would want to support her in that choice. fine, too.

But why call her choice something that it isnt? It's not "facing" the problems. She chose not to do that. She chose to walk away.

If you mean "deal with", or "handle", then why not write that, instead of a word that doesn't apply, such as "face" ?

"supporting" someone's actions, doesnt mean you have to say "yes yes that's absolutely true" of everything they say. It is possible to support her choices, while at the same time, saying that she didnt do what she said, of "facing" her problems.

Techie,

I say splitting hairs on your part to be honest.

If you read her thread from beginning to end you will see that Rin waffled for a while when she renamed her thread "surrendering to win" I think it was.

Before that brief period of time she tried plan A. She insisted on NC. There were blow ups where she faced off with the WH on many occasions

She faced the problem of adultry and caved for awhile then came back and said no this won't work.

I cannot surrender to win.

So for a brief side track you are saying she didn't face her problem after D Day.

Go back and read her entire threads. From start to finish.

See she demanded NC. See she wanted MB principles. See she read every book. See she tried to save her M but her H actually wanted an open M.

She faced that and unfortunately her WH decided to keep calling OW and acting like he had an open M>

So what didn't she face there Techie????? Read it and tell me?

Next she is Facing the fact her M is over. She does not have to stand in front of her STXH and say I want a D.

If you followed her thread you would know he is prone to angry outbursts. Burning her stuff breaking glass in entertaniment centers.

So she is FACING an ugly D with an unrepentent, unremorseful WH. Not looking him in the face and doing it but Facing the fact that is where her life is.

If your definition of facing your fears and problems are different so be it.

I do support rin Trust me over the last year I have 2x4 her plenty but in this case I agree. No 2x4 needed from me.

I am not agreeing because I support her. So please don't tell me I am.

If you have a fear of great white sharks Jumping into the water without a cage with great white sharks isn't facing your fears. It is stupid.

ok, frog, you asked, so I'll say <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Apologies to Rin... Not meant to be a 2x4. Not meant to lecture you, "this is what you should do/should have done". I'm just explaining why I wrote what I did.

I think that one of the most important things on these boards, is to be straight up and accurate about *everything* that is talked about. 'Cause a whooole lot of problems people write about here, are about one or more people getting "fogged", and not seeing reality clearly. So, when I see someone's words not matching with reality... I feel like, when they're on here, they should get in better touch with it. Whether that be to clear up "fog", or whether it's just a matter of using accurate words.

So anyway.. Yeah, frog, you're right, in that .. she DID, early on, "ask" for NC, MB principles, etc.
Unfortunately, she didn't get what she asked for. So... she backed down.
She gave in to what he wanted. She closed her eyes, and "accepted". Or to put it another way... she turned her face away so she wouldn't have to look at what her husband was doing any more.

Yeah, she read the book.. but she didnt follow the book to the finish (which is the most important part of it, usually!).
She didn't go to plan B. Nor did she say "ok, this is my line in the sand, do this this and this, or I'll divorce you".

instead, she chose to walk away. to "turn her back", rather than her face, to her broken marriage.


Now that, is an accurate statement. She's "facing" a divorce.
She aint facing her husband, or the problems in her marriage, though.
She doesnt even have to "face him" for final divorce settlements... she can go through her lawyer for that.

"If your definition of facing your fears and problems are different so be it."

'my' definition?
If I say, "I'm afraid of flying on america west airlines. I had a horrible experience with them. So I'm going to never fly them again, and use a different airline any time I have to fly"... Do you have a definition of "facing my fears" that that somehow fits into?
I've 'dealt' with them, sure. In the sense that I can still do what I want to do, and not feel fear about that area again. But I sure haven't "faced" them in any way. I've chosen to avoid them, instead. And that would be a choice I'm free to make, and I'd be fine with making it.
But I'd never claim that I'd "faced my fears of flying america west" by doing so.



To muddy the definition of an important phrase such as "facing ones fears", is not a good thing to allow lightly.

No Techie not just early on. For MOST of the TIME she did. There was a short period she decided to go against that. Then she came back and said in your terms I guess.
She was turning her face to it.


I don't know that in every case a plan B is necessary. That is a choice. It also says that every BS has the right to a D at anytime.

I was in an M that a plan B was impossible. She wouldn't leave and I wouldn' leave so then what, If I don't plan B then I didn't face something.

I would say if flying America West is unsafe then it would be foolish to try to Face the fear of flying America West.

Again I think you are splitting hairs on a definition.

IF her fear is facing her stbxh and it is unsafe to do that then no she didn't.

If her fear is facing life without her stbxh then she is facing that fear.

So in the first one you could be right that she isn't in the second she is.


When did you become the protector of the phrase "facing ones fears" ??????

Then to suppose you know what someones fears are to say they aren't facing them takes some hudspah!!!!!!!!!!!

So this is Rin's quote. What problems do you suppose she was talking about. What problems do you suppose her stbxh was talkign about?

You don't know but you split the hair anyway and give her a 2x4.

I don't know either but I would suppose that just to name one she Faced her step dad.

HMMMMM!!!!

Rin I would appologize for the TJ but I think you will agree with me anyway.

Edit Alert.

The finally one thing that really irks me is you are supposing you know what her fear was.

Where did you read what fear Rin was talking about?????

Again you supposed you knew then went off on a tangent about facing fears.

Maybe clarify what her fear was before telling her she didn't face them!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree. But foolish to do so or not, it would be untrue to say i faced my fears, in that case.



definitions are important. People here see and deal with problems, that are sometimes due almost solely to people being sloppy about definitions.



I believe, from reading her threads for a long time, that her husband was referring to her general "conflict avoidance" tendancies overall.

You're right, though, in that I dont "know" what problems she was referring to specifically, when she wrote that. Thank you for pointing that out.
Sure seems like she was referring to "her husband, and her marriage", given the thread context though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

ok, i'm done, if you're done. On with the S4B saga.
"We apologise for the inconvenience"
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


PS: frog, you said you were "irked" about me going off about fears. I got curious about how that happened, so did a page search.
you were the first one to reference "facing fears". I followed you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Do you know how many definitions there are for definition.

So I guess istead of saying splitting hairs about a definition I will rephrase and say using diffrent definitions of the same term.

Therefore the definition that you use in your life may be correct and the definition rin uses is also correct.

Same word different definition.


My quote "The finally one thing that really irks me is you are supposing you know what her fear was."

I wasn't irked that you went off about fears I was irked you supposed you knew what fear she was talking about.

I don't know what you think my motive is but that is what irked me.

Like I said before you went off about facing fears. You assumed it was referring to "her husband, and her Marriage". I assumed it was facing the fear of living without her husband given the context of the thread.

Different people different views. I don't know who is right but I don't think being the Definition police is helpful. LOL.

sigh. i regret extending this, but I hate lose ends...


Actually, she only referenced "problems". you were the first one to bring up the word "fear".
So I dont see how she could have been referencing "facing the fear of living without her husband" in that post.
That most likely is a concern of hers, and I think I remember her posting about it in the past. But that wasnt in the posting I replied to.


[snipping extra stuff I was going to say, and trying to give the 'floor' back to S4B]

Techie - why is it you gravitate to battered women and encourage the "one more chance - face him" rhetoric?

Do you not know that Jesus is more appalled by a husband who burns his wife's books, threatens her children and her physically, mentally, emotionally and financially (try to tell me threatening to burn down the house is not financial abuse as well as a bunch of other abuses). Where have you read anywhere that Jesus says she should put her life and the life of her child in danger just one more time to "face" him??

Please - do what I asked you to do before. Volunteer for a season at a domestic violence crisis line. Watch the women go back and do exactly what you have advised L2S and S4B to do. And watch them die. Do it. Please. Before you give any more "Jesus hates divorce" 2x4s here to women who also hate divorce but the alternative is to leave their children motherless.

S4B - please consider a mental health break from personalizing the advice from anyone who says you didn't do enough to save your marriage. I remember your 4 month long thread that came after your husband went off the creep-factor-skin-crawling scale for this reader who also happens to be a former-reporter and both published and unpublished author on the subject of domestic violence.