PS,

Nixon ended up losing.

Strange, didn't WH think about that part?

I think next time he should pick a quote from a

WINNER

doncha think?


Duh.
SB

I would be glad to do it!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />




Pep <~~~~~~ who somehow knows that RS is stuck on LilSis's thread (and others) like a fat tick on a mangy ol' dawg. lol!


I've just been busy, although I've been reading and keeping up. I was feeling a bit guilty because your writing (LilSis) is so beautiful and flowing that I totally missed how close to breaking you actually were!

Your Plan B is magnificient so far. Your BF...WOW! Good job!

Now, I know you're not suppose to be thinking 'what if he' this or 'what if he' that, but I have a feeling this little trip of his is not going to end up with his desired result. Since he's now in Nixon (HA) mode, I would suspect that this trip has a purpose, and I would further ruminate that the purpose is to ask Mom and Dad if he can remain at their house because money is tight. <everybody say oh-poor-WH> He's still in lala land thinking that (somehow) his financial situation will get better when his D just magically happens in April. Another HA! MIL and FIL will no doubt be very helpful in disabusing him of this notion (unbeknownst to you, as you are doing such a wonderful Plan B).

Apologies for playing the 'what if' game!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Runcible Spoon,

Short threadjack (sorry LilSis)

I tried to eat with you, but that pokey thing hurts.

SB

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!

I'll have to remember that in the future!

<laughing>

RS,

See, your tagline quote is from a winner.

And, you know what a runcible spoon is.

I like people who read!

Threadjack over!

SB

Lil'Sis....

Never posted to your thread before, but have been following your story...

I, too am in a very dark Plan B.

Shoot me an email when you get a chance....

marriedforever2006@yahoo.com

Hope you're hanging in there!!!

~MF

MarriedForever,

I too, had to go BACK to plan B, NC never achieved. We'll see what a good dark Plan B can do. I actually believe that I MAY be ready for divorce. I'm looking at financials and may work to gain the house in proceedings, but I may file myself. I'm giving myself until the summer to think on it, and to get back to the fun I was having.

Lilsis, I'm really okay right now. I'm happy to know what I DON'T want. When your H does break through the intermediary barrier (and he will) don't EVER look on him as your H, he is a WAYWARD boob, until he proves, and I mean really proves (dropping the OW, going through withdrawal, showing you that you are what he wants, in whatever way you need).

My WH was just the same in his emails about STUFF. He would be cold, and would say just a small thing here or there. Nothing big. He did apologize to my GF when she was intermediary, saying that it's a pity she has to be the go between.

The night that he left this time, he told me that he believed I was UNREASONABLE, IRRATIONAL, and IMMATURE. I proceeded to debunk his crapola thinking by enumerating his A's and why I had to cut him off. By the end of the conversation, he was WAY fogged out, but agreeing that it was ALL HIM.

I am finally ANGRY with him. I was still waiting for him to come home, and when he wrote that letter and cut off contact, I believed him. The best thing for me now, if he EVER comes back, is the tell him to come back when he is ready for M, ready to PUT US FIRST, ABOVE ALL, and then to take the time to PROVE IT BEFORE STEPPING FOOT IN MY LIFE...

schoolbus:
About the shot regarding saying hi to FWH...I never even really gave that one a second look. I sort of took it as brown-nosing, trying to cozy up to GF. ??? So I never would have taken that from it.

About the Nixon thing...sadly, it sounds exactly right. That's exactly how he's been acting..."Yes, I know you don't like this nor approve of it, but I'm doing it anyway because it is the right thing for me to do, and I'm not going to apologize for doing the right thing. I am going to stand up for what I believe even if it is unpopular." That is his response, in a nutshell...and he comes across as so convincing, so sincere, so consistent...taking advantage of my H's good name and the goodwill that people have toward H. I feel so angry when WH does that, because that quality is one that so attracted me to him in the first place.

RS: Welcome back.

SL: Glad you are feeling a little more up today. And I thank you for your very clear and sound advice. You are an inspiration in so many ways.

MF: email sent.

Schoolbus, that was an amazing breakdown of the true communication.

If you have time, and wouldn't mind, could you email me? I have a question, mostly curiosity, and not at all urgent. Thanks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

you_neak@yahoo.com

I CAN spell intermediary .... if I want to

(awaiting schoolbus analysis)

Pep

I know I'm not supposed to be thinking about WH, but having slept on this...a couple of questions...

I wonder if what he does not like is the fact that someone else is dictating the TERMS of communication...not so much that he doesn't like being told that he can't talk to ME in particular...??? Could you clarify?

That's what frightens me, that THAT man may truly be gone. This is really the CRUX of this...what I'm doing...my Plan A and now B. Is it possible to lose one's SELF? Can one so completely alter his "core," his lifelong values that they no longer connect with them at all?

I asked my IC that over and over, and I've never gotten an answer. He says he doesn't know; essentially there's no knowing if the walls that have been built up around his self will ever be breached.

It seems obvious that the walls WILL NEVER be breached if there is NO conflict going on between the self and the WH...if the SELF is dead and gone, or has been assimilated by WH.

So if there is NO CONFLICT, then there is NO HOPE for recovery, because the self will never emerge again.

So SB, do you "read" conflict in any of that communication? I don't...I really don't see any conflict in terms of his behavior, don't even hear it in his words. He has been very, very consistent in his message: I am gone, our marriage is over, there is no hope. Even saying that he's my husband in the eyes of the law only. That's pretty cut and dry.

I know I'm not supposed to dwell on this...but it really does speak to the heart of the matter, and somehow I need some objective opinion on it so I have a realistic view of where I stand.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Sis,

His statement about saying hi to the FWH was a shot at you, because it was meant to say that he did not like being told not to talk to you.

He doesn't like not talking to you, and also not being told how NOT to talk to you. Both. He doesn't like having to conform to the idea that he can't communicate with you or see you, nor that there are strict rules about it.

So his approach is basically, "Well, I will show LilSis. I will follow her stupid rules. I won't communicate with her and will use her intermediary. And I won't say anything to her, nanny-nanny-boo-boo." But in the end, he ends up saying lots of stuff.

Like, LilSis, Nanny-nanny-boo-boo... I am right and you are wrong about the attic and the electric bill.... And I actually am NOT so engrossed about it and this situation about not being able to talk to you about it that I have NOT spent a bunch of time NOT doing the calculations in order to NOT communicate them to you and NOT prove my point... Please pay some attention here and respond about this electric bill thing LS and argue with WH please I'm sticking my tongue out and trying to get you to respond please....

I mean, please. He is transparent.

And for what it's worth, I think RT knows about the PBL. I'm not convinced she read it, though. It talks of love, and somehow his "style" doesn't seem like the type to open that up to her. Just something about his cognitive style here that tells me that, and I'm just going on some things you have told us over time. Also his protective instincts.

As for the questin about whether or not people can change the basic self. Yes, I believe they can. Usually, however, it is in the other direction - from bad to good - in the sense that people are moved (usually in a religious experience) away from evil or criminal lives into a better life. I have seen some people move the other way, but the sense of self has not been destroyed, and under most circumstances they cave to the ultimate right. These were good people who committed crimes, ended up in jail, but never really turned to the recidivist types we usually consider hardened.

The conflict, yes, I've seen it all along.

For what it's worth:

I just got a call from my ex-son-in-law yesterday. He divorced my daughter, divorce was final two weeks ago. They "drifted apart", fell out of love, etc. DD did not necessarily want the divorce, but let him go after trying for two years (no kids). They separated back in September. He has lived the single life since, and she has dated a little.

He called yesterday, and said he had asked her to consider dating him again. He said she was really pi$$ed off, but said, "Don't call me for awhile." But she was considering it.

He told me he made the biggest mistake of his life, he had pulled his head out of his a$$, he was an idiot, he would do anything to get her back, he would give up anything, and admit any error to anyone and I was the first one in line to call. He asked my support, and asked my forgiveness.

I'm on board. I directed him to MB.

So you see, even if it goes the distance, they can still pull their heads out.

SB

Pep,


"I CAN spell intermediary .... if I want to"

translation:

"Puedo deletrear a intermediario....si yo quiero"


SB

Sis -- the man who you have been seeing lately is NOT your husband, this you know --

he is a nutso - coo coo - wacko crazy drug addict

they ALL do it honey...

praying for you and your boys - car

SB:

This doesn't say the same thing backwards:

"Puedo deletrear a intermediario....si yo quiero"

????

reflog ysoul

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thank you so much, SB. I appreciate the clarification on all points.

I'm so happy to hear of your ex-SIL's "enlightenment!" What a lucky guy to have you on his side.

I agree that RT knows about the PBL. I'm sure she's jumping for joy, having been handed WH on a silver platter. She will no longer have to fret over him coming over, helping me with tires, taking out the garbage, etc. She no longer has any competition. He's all hers now. Let's hope her confidence allows her true colors to show.

I have to keep telling myself that she is welcome to WH.

I just fear for my H, being subjected to all that evilness day in and day out, eating away at him. That man is so good and so worthy...it is such a loss that he is no longer part of our world.

I also tend to agree that WH would not have allowed her to read the PBL. It was very, very personal, and I think his protective instincts would kick in before he revealed that intimate communication from me. Nonetheless, he would have shared the gist of it: I do not want any contact with him.

I'm actually a little surprised that he read it carefully enough that he is now abiding by the rules so diligently. Although he was 20 minutes late dropping the kids off on Wednesday...maybe a little snub to me...you can't push ME around, LS.

Okay, so I'll take your word for the conflict...and attribute my skepticism to the fact that I'm too close to the trees to see the forest. Again, I do fear that my H has been so descimated (sp?) by this that he lacks the ability to recover from it.

Only God will be able to make that happen for him...I just hope God has a royal flush, and WH a cr*p hand. (I loved that card-playing analogy!)

Back to faith. It keeps coming back to faith. God will do his work, for me and WH...and his plan is greater than I know. I must trust in Him with all my heart. He is testing me on this, I think. He wants me to understand and BELIEVE that his plan will work for good...even if MY idea of what is good is different from His.

Okay...now that all that is off my chest, it is a beautiful, sunny day! The temp is 40!!! The boys are outside building a snow "ghost" in my neighbor's front yard (at her request). I need to get in the shower and get those boys outside for a walk to the park. I've got some bread for the ducks.

I want to soak in God's creation and rejoice in the beauty around me!

Another supporter checking in and helping to lift you up.

The line in WH's email about saying hi to your BF's FWS "if it's appropriate" so strongly triggered a memory of something my H said once, that I wanted to ask about this...

I once mentioned that I thought your WH had passive-agressive tendencies. Try reading this and see if it strikes a cord with you:

http://www.angriesout.com/couples8.htm

The first time I read it I had stop to get a box of Kleenex as I fluctuated between hysterically crying and laughing. If it describes your relationship at all, I suspect you would have a similar reaction.

Prayers, SHOL

LS,


Good G side fightin distractions happin here. B-plan. All apart of the De-escalation stages.


Your building a healthy neutrality structure here. New boundries. A bit of a shock for him. It spins him. He seems entrenched & locked in the pain/ anger cycle;


a) Stonewalling, b) Contempt, c) Criticizing, d) Defensive,.


No one can have a relationship with a wall. Remember he too is going life shaking sorrow. He is human. He it torn. He is scarred/depressed big time. He is sick.


From your earlier posts you mentioned prior depression. Possibly in full blown complex (PTSD) Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. He may not be aware himself.



Happy Day.


Goal: Calm/Respective.

LilSis,

The Turd may be jumping for joy NOW, but she will begin to unravel when it gets to the point that all your WH wants to do is complain about not being able to see or talk to you. Even if he doesn't talk about it to her, he will likely be fuming to himself about it. She will figure his bad mood out, and she will NOT like it that you are on his mind so much!

So, let the Turd's lovebusting commence! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />