agree

but if you must reply
be SURE to cc a copy to YOUR probation officer !!!!!!!

AND

a cc to MIL

yes...keep the probation officer in the loop.

Do you want to work your PLAN or make a POINT?

IMO, you should IGNORE...

I think that the RT wants a response from you..she wants to know that she got to you and I would not give her that PLEASURE...

Things are not going well with them...

HE IS NOT HAPPY...

SHE IS NOT MEETING ALL OF HIS NEEDS...

She wants you to do something like this to JUSTIFY her calling you the B word...

She does not want him to remember you as the PLAN A SIS....

I think mimi is right.
she is eagerly waiting a reaction.
sit tight!
atleast for a bit longer....maybe she will send another email...or do something else.

Don't respomd to this too soon....that is what she wants and expects!
Do Not give her what she wants.

I vote IGNORE

I vote COPY to probation officer .... then a follow-up call to ask for PO's advice how to handle this harasssment....

you won't be able to prove the email was not sent by a child ... but PO may have some words-to-the-wise for you about any future such bullchit

Pep

Sorry...I typed that out without reading any previous posts because I was on the fly.

My IC didn't suggest doing anything TODAY. His point was that if I simply delete the email without saying anything, that somehow it would inevitably come out, i.e.; "Did you get an email from RTS?" ...and all eyes would go to me. I'd be the bad guy.

IC is all about being honest AND firm...keeping at the forefront what is best for the boys. In this instance, it was as clear to him as it is to us that this was "not good." That WH made a VERY poor choice in intentionally or unintentionally facilitating communication between the kids.

His thinking is that this needs to be nipped in the bud. Set a firm boundary with WH...this kind of thing CANNOT happen. This was a potential bombshell. It could be deeply damaging to the boys. If WH fails to recognize that (as he apparently did), then it is my obligation to protect the boys by pointing it out to him and SET THAT BOUNDARY, whether or no he "hears" it, believes it, or understands it.

We talked about how WH and I are seemingly on two different planets, speaking an entirely different language with regard to everything...including what's best for the boys. IC acknowledged that WH may not hear, believe, or understand, but felt that I should set that boundary NOW, to protect the kids.

Mulan...I like your changes. I wrote it really quickly, off the top of my head.

I'm still thinking it through, though. I would like to discuss it with MIL.

One thing I want to be careful about...this is about the boys. Even though recovery is ultimately the best thing for them, my response to this cannot be about Plan A/Plan B or what plays to my "advantage" in recovering my marriage. I am willing to gamble myself and my feelings to try to save it, but I will not allow my kids to be used as pawns.

???

ok then...i still say sit tight for atleast another day.

no one know IF you read the email yet or not....i feel pretty sure that RT either outright TOLD your WH to send pictures so son would go to the email OR he is in on ALL of it.

i agee w/ the IC's Honest and Firm position...it is about the boys best interest.

still....SHE is expecting you to react....let her wait a little longer.

LilSis:

I understand about the kids I really do. I have four. My fwh used to send pics of him while overseas with other females. Used to send these for my kids to see. He knew my feelings about the one in particular, he didn't see it has hurting the kids. The kids wanted pics of him and his friends however the pics he sent were not appropriate.

The kids saw the first couple pics, after that I monitored what they saw. It killed me what he was doing to our kids, he barely contacted them in the two years he was overseas. I did not care if I became the bad guy to my kids, in protecting them from seeing the things their dad was doing. During that time I prayed and the message I got was to "do nothing" I was not the type to do nothing however after much trial and error I did. I turned my fwh over to God and I turned myself and my children over to God. Because HE could protect them much better than I could. It doesn't mean that your kids will not get hurt by their dad or this OP, however it does mean the God will bring you and them through it.

You wh does not care about boundaries right now. You set the boundaries he/ or the ow are going to push those boundaries. The ow does not care at all about your kids, your wh at this point has pushed his feelings about his kids far from the front of his mind because it doesn't feel good. He isn't going to protect your kids either, not until he makes changes. He will only protect the OW and her feelings. He denies so much already, she denies, they will use however you react against you and may even use it to come between you and your son.

You could be very honest with your son and tell him that yes he did receive an email from him and that you know it hurts him that his dad spends time with him and you don't want to see him hurt any further by this. You can turn this around to a learning/growing time for him. It's hard. The op used to email my daughter and tell her how much her dad missed them, though my kids did not know what was going on.

You are not putting your child in the middle if you do not respond to this. You are sending a clear message to whoever sent that email that their games will not be tolerated, and that you are no longer available to play their games. You can protect your children.

I may be totally wrong in this and there are many more experienced people here. Pray, ask for guidance, leave it for awhile. I don't believe your wh is going to hear anything you have to say at this point. It just lets them know that the way to get to you is now through your children. They have no other avenue to get to you. So if you respond to this they may just come that much harder at your kids. What better way for the ow to get things back on track than to have you come back at her.

You can protect your kids, not responding may well take your kids out of the middle of this because they will know that they can't get at you this way.

Yes, your sons are being or trying to be used as pawns -- if you ignore this - at least for now - you are not playing into their hand...

Don't lower your standards to their's.... stay silent for awhile....


Remember ~ you have all of MB in your corner

And, we know who WH has..... yuck

I also vote ignore. You got triggered. You want to respond and set things right, but what do you hope to accomplish, realistically? You want them to know that what they did was wrong, but is there any chance they will hear you? You're talking to fogged-out zombies. They *want* you to respond. Don't give them the satisfaction.

Dark Plan B.

But if you really have to respond, it should come from your lawyer.

I don't agree with your counselor. SORRY. There is no way that you can turn out to be a BAD GUY in this AT ALL...



AGAIN...I DISAGREE..What is best for the kids is for their parents to RECONCILE and for you not to be part of RT'S schemes...SHE WANTS YOU TO RESPOND..and if you do SHE WINS THIS BATTLE...SHE WANTS YOU BACK IN THE TRIANGLE SO THAT THE FOCUS WILL BE OFF OF HER AND HOW SHE IS FAILING!!!



DO YOU WANT THIS NIPPED IN THE BUD OR THE AFFAIR NIPPED IN THE BUD???

You will be coming out of the DARKNESS....



SO WHAT'S THE USE?? If he is not seeing or hearing YOU? He will listen to HER...RT: "SEE, I TOLD YOU HOW SHE IS?..YOU WANT TO GO BACK TO THAT?"....



You said it yourself..RECOVERY IS ULTIMATELY THE BEST THING FOR THEM...So your response needs to BE PLAN B..YOUR PLAN FOR RECOVERY...

YOU CAN PROTECT YOUR KIDS FROM THIS BY STAYING DARK..Limit and monitor your son's exposure to E-MAILS...

I hate it that RT has provoked you into this furor...

The OW in my case never understood how she could not get to me..She did but I never let her see it...

I NEVER WENT TO HER GUTTER LEVEL....and fougnt with her..she's trying to bring you back out into the ring...

I urge you to stay out of it....

LisSis,
Right from the beginning of all this, RT has been after the POWER. She obviously feels she has lost some of that power and is trying to regain it. Do NOT let her bait you.

By all means, protect your sons. You can do that by screening the emails.

But do not give her the response she wants from this.

In Plan B, YOU HAVE THE POWER.

yes!!
totally agree....i am grateful explained how i feel very well.

very well said. wanted to repost it.

DO NOT give her the power and don't worry about looking like the bad guy just now.
nobody even knows IF you or your son saw the email.
DO NOT feel like you need to cover your tracks just now.

IF WH asks about the email from RTs son....so what?

YOU had every right to intercede that email.... for all the reasons you stated... DO NOT feel defensive and don't worry about being the bad guy.
YOU are the HONEST one.


you DO NOT need to PROVE you are HONEST and FIRM...just BE IT!!

you DO NOT need to PROVE anything here.
and you DO NOT need to CYA!

Taking in all this advice...

What about the type of communication I mentioned through my intermediary...??

You are right, I don't want to go "un-dark."

Still no?

LilSis,

A's thrive on drama. With you in plan B, there is no drama. RT, WH or both (doesn't matter) are creating drama. DO NOT BE SUCKED IN.

I often use this image, which is a small excerpt from a Bill Moyers "On Faith and Reason" show:

"PEMA CHÖDRÖN: ...And at that level, notice that you're hooked and work with not escalating it--

BILL MOYERS: You're hooked?

PEMA CHÖDRÖN: Yeah. That I'm hooked. Hooked is an interesting quality to me.

BILL MOYERS: What do you mean by it?

PEMA CHÖDRÖN: I mean, not only has something, evoked a response in me but it's going to be difficult for me to let go. Anger is like that for sure. Prejudice is like that. Critical mindedness is like that. You don't want to let go. There's something delicious about finding fault with something. And that can be including finding fault with one's self, you know? So that's what I mean by hooked. You're sort of - because of the image of a fish and the hook and it has this juicy worm on it and you know the consequences aren't going to be good. But you cannot resist. And one of the main things we're addicted to is escalating aggression.

BILL MOYERS: So you escalate the anger.

PEMA CHÖDRÖN: So I escalate the anger, you know? My teacher Dzigar Kongtrul Rinpoche, he calls it pouring kerosene on the fire, you know? In an attempt to put it out, you pour kerosene on the fire.

BILL MOYERS: I like that. I like the idea of being hooked. It's a new metaphor for me..."

(If you want to watch the video, it is here: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/faithandreason/watch_chodron.html
Pema Chodron was once a BS herself)

This is one way I have grown tremendously. I now often say I am "dodging the hook". I don't let myself get tempted by the bait to escalate a situation. It isn't easy to do.

Does this make any sense to you?

Step back for a minute and look at this objectively. You have already protected your son by deleting a hurtful email. Anything else at this time, and you have allowed yourself to "get hooked" by their bait.

no. nothing....especially not thru your intermediary.
IF anything....have your attorney do it and i still
say....wait! what's the hurry?

think about it...what do you have to gain by responding right away?
I can't think of a thing!

mimi: I've already been to the gutter...remember? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Everybody...
thanks for talking me through this. It is so much to process. Yes, sd is right...I was totally triggered and the emotions are on high. Mama Bear was snarling with claws bared....beginning to settle down now.

Talk to me about this...I still think there's some validity in establishing a clearer boundary. Right now the agreement is "no contact between the kids and RT." They have effectively circumvented that on a technicality.

I don't appreciate that (grrrrr...watch mama bear snap her jaws). Shouldn't I (through my intermediary) call him on that? HEY! GET THAT TOE BACK OVER THE LINE, MISTER!

I feel like giving them a pass gives THEM the power...allowing them to think that they can do whatever they please, to keep going right up to the line, ultimately crossing it altogether, and no one will say anything. After all, they are entitled.

But I do not want to come out of the darkness, and I do not want to be emotional.

BTW...I see WH as EQUALLY as culpable as RT on this one, for sure. Maybe more so. Call her evil...he's just as bad for opening the door in the first place; allowing evil to get close to his own son, his own flesh and blood. Insidiously, sneakily, through an unlocked window...

bjs: Thank you for sharing your experience. I WILL pray and ask for guidance. My IC said something similar to what you said...that I cannot protect them from hurt, but I can be there for them, let them know that those feelings are natural, and give them the skills, the tools and the resources to know how to deal with the hurt when they experience it.

Is TURD (or a TURD by proxy) allowed to contact you or yours?

ASK your parol officer.

Pep

They (or perhaps just RT) are trying to get a response out of you.

DO NOTHING ON THIS ONE.

Continue to monitor DS11's email account and protect him as a mama bear should.

They (she) will be compelled to try something else and will escalate this until she gets you to react WHICH IS HER ENTIRE GOAL. DO NOT SATISFY HER!

Stay dark. Give copies of all future correspondence and evidence of harrassment to your attorney.