WH dropped the boys off at about 9:20. I stayed upstairs; WH sent DS11 to get his mail. DS11 had to ask me where it was. Apparently WH stayed outside the entire time; not even stepping inside the back door. Abiding by my wish.

See, he's fine with Plan B. Not the slightest interest in breaking it, in seeing me, in communicating with me.

Wow. It's pretty stunning actually. Quite a switch from the guy who asked me to marry him, who held my hand while our children were born, who swore to love and honor me until the day he died. After 14 years together, two children...all the accoutrements of a life together. It means nothing to him anymore.

That guy checked out three years ago; only I didn't find out about it until nine months ago. Maybe that guy never really existed.

The reality of it still stings; that so much of my life has been a lie, and even those things that weren't a lie are tinged now, and will be forever.

But it isn't my fault. I did my best. I kept my vows. And I can't walk away from my life or from what's happened. I can only live it, and continue to do my best, to be true, to not allow the light to be eclipsed by the darkness. Keep slogging through the crap, with the faith that eventually I'll make it out of the muck, and get to some cool, clean grass where I can lay down and feel the sun on my face. Restoreth my soul.

PGA: You lit a candle! Oh... ((((PGA))))

LS, you don't know what's going on inside his head, and to try to figure it out now will make you crazy. Try to put it away and follow your last paragraph. Try not to dwell on what he's doing or saying or thinking--it only hurts and won't get you anywhere. You don't know what is happening on the other side of the Plan B, and part of the advantage of Plan B is that you're protecting yourself from the hurt.

I know that this is hard. If you want to, you can cut and paste this advice and give it back to me on my thread, because I'm struggling with the exact same thing right now.

You're doing really well. You'll do even better if you can get a handle on your thoughts. Your husband is still in there somewhere. The good years you had together aren't a lie. He made a terrible mistake and hasn't been able to recover from it--can't fight off the addiction. Emotionally, he doesn't know which way is up right now. He's a Fogged-Out Zombie. He'll figure it out sooner or later. For your sake, I hope it's sooner.

You know that you have done all you can and more. I'm sure my brother would be honored for you to carry around his words. They certainly apply for you, which is why I posted them to you.

(((LilSis)))

I don't think your H is so fine w/ plan B...I think he is a stubborn A$$.
he wasnts to win a game...."She said not to talk to her, not come in the house, so FINE, i won't.....see how long it takes for HER to come running back to me."
My 17 year old acts that way. Big Baby.

You are bigger than that.
I am sorry for your pain.

Hi nia...I hope you are feeling less anxious today...??

SL: You ARE your son's hero...even he probably recognizes that. You are MY hero, too!

I am determined to be better today.

LilSis ~ just a reminder.

From my "Detachment with Love" thread:

Acceptance - Acceptance is the next key. We need to look at the reality of what has happened in the past and what is happening now. Many of us stumble in the beginning over the incorrect thought that acceptance means approval. Acceptance does not mean that we feel ok about current or past circumstances, it only means that we stop trying to change what we have no power over. We have no power over the past or the wayward spouse.

[color:"purple"]Even with acceptance, we need to grieve the losses caused by infidelity in our families and in our lives. Dreams have faded, bubbles have burst. Acceptance gives us two things - acceptance of our feelings and also acceptance of the fact that we cannot change the other person - healing from our loss and disillusion is an inside job.[/quote]

Wow, BR, according to that, I really am getting to acceptance. I do not feel okay about what's happened to me and the boys and my life, but Plan B is allowing me to stop trying to change WH.

I am definitely grieving my losses. Maybe acceptance is the only time that can happen, because until then, the losses aren't really "real" ???

This makes me feel a little better. I'm moving through the stages. That means I'll get to the end eventually, right? Eventually?

I saved your Detachment thread. I'll go back and read it.

acceptence brings clarity and peace.
it is a nice feeling.

wish i could get it back. LOL

btw...have you heard back from your lawyer about the FOC?

You are doing just fine.

Remember that all of this is temporary and it's ok to live in today.

I totally agree with this. He's trying to give you a taste of your own medicine and is waiting to see how long it takes you to come begging to see him again.

Remember, YOU have the MB plan but HE knows nothing about it.

Heh.
Mulan

yep...the mind of an adolescent. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

SNAP.

(you're wearing that rubber band right?)

How long til Spring Break????

Ok, I have to respond to all these why the Buck's, why not? They haven't gone this far in many years. Just like in life, I like to see success spread around, not the same teams year after year. I didn't expect them to get this far, so GO BUCKEYE's... lol...

Sis, I hope you don't believe that your H never existed.



I hope you don't believe this either.

This is rewriting the past AND making assumptions about your future.

I certainly don't feel that way about my past life with my H. I see the A as a TIME FRAME in our lives..a part of our LIFE STORY..a TRAGIC PART..but it doesn't STAIN the past before that OR our future..I continue to treasure our SPECIAL, UNFORGETTABLE MOMENTS from the past..a zillion of those..that the OW did not share and will never share..the FIRST TIME WE MET..our COLLEGE DATING DAYS...OUR WEDDING DAY..the first time we went to DISNEY WORLD..the BIRTH OF OUR CHILDREN....and on and on..


I maintained my BELIEF in the SPECIALNESS of those times throughout all phases of the MB process..BELIEVE IN YOURSELF..YOUR VALUE..and YOUR POWER...

It will be HIS LOSS if he does not return to the ONE WOMAN in this world who can share such SPECIAL MEMORIES OF HIS PAST...the woman who GOD CHOSE FOR HIM....LET NO MAN PUT ASUNDER....

RT has NO PAST with HIM..you HOLD HIS PAST....that is ONLY STAINED/TAINTED by the A if IN YOUR MIND..you ALLOW that TO HAPPEN..but IN REALITY..those times remain as special as they WERE...

Also, try not to MAKE ASSUMPTIONS about what's going on with your WH..you only REALLY KNOW what's going on with your own life...

My H didn't try to contact me at all either early on in PLAN B..

I had NO IDEA how much he was SUFFERING...

I've been telling myself that it is as if H has died. That allows me to hold on to those memories and keep them safe from the ugliness of WH. BUT the REALITY is that H=WH, so sometimes that encroaches on my little "fantasy" that H is dead, especially when I am feeling particularly down or vulnerable.


In terms of memories not being tinged because of the lies.. I wonder if that has as much to do with the phase of grieving/acceptance that I am in currently.

For you, mimi, did the memories escape the "stain" because you recovered? If you hadn't recovered, do you think that you would look at your past in the same light? If your DH had continued his ugly wayward ways and you moved on, do you think you would look at your early life together in EXACTLY the same way you do now?

Wouldn't the memories seem so much more bittersweet? Wouldn't you remember those times with a real ache in your heart, a regret, a sadness, in addition to the joy?

I'm not asking this as a challenge to you, I'm asking in all honesty. Maybe believer would have a better idea?

So, yes!, it would CERTAINLY be his loss if he didn't return to "reclaim" those memories...but it would be my loss as well.

I'm not so sure I buy the whole "no past with RT" thing...they have had three years now. Three years is one QUARTER of our married life! By the time we had been together three years, we were married and had a house, a dog, a child.

That's a long time to be with someone, to be "in love" with someone. That's a big part of his life now, and will be FOREVER. They have had three years to create memories, to share their deepest thoughts and dreams, to plan their life together, to BOND through their mutual deception and the mutual hurt that they are willing to inflict on others.

Yes, what they have shared is--to us--ugly, hideous, wrong, maladaptive, an abomination. But to them, it's been this great drama, this wonderful testament to the depth of their love for each other.

I USED to hold his past. I don't anymore...I just hold my own past. I can choose to claim it for myself, and keep it special by remembering my H, or I can allow it to be tainted by the reality of WH. I think that will be a process, and I think that only time will tell how it all shakes out.

All that said...you are right, mimi, I shouldn't assume what he's feeling now...it's just HARD to not go there. Grrr...

SNAP! SNAP!! SNAP!!!!

Hi LS,
It can be very difficult to differentiate between assumptions (dj's) and what is menas to be realistic.
i struggle too.

snap snap snap. got me one too...it's pink!

Even if you don’t recover your M, your memories from your M will not always be tinged with lies. As time goes by, you come to realize that what everyone is saying here is really true. That when a WS is in the middle of an A, they make up a completely different past, in order to justify their horrible actions. In fact, when the WS used to be a basically good person, with high moral standards – those are the ones who have to make up even more crap. How else do they justify their actions? When he spent years telling people that M is forever, it is wrong to cheat on your wife, etc, now he is doing the things he used to preach against – so how does he explain that to people who knew him before? He has to make up some pretty tall tales. Think about a child who steals a candy bar and gets caught. They stole the candy because it looked good, they wanted to taste it, and they didn’t think about the consequences of their actions. But when they get caught they realize that they can’t say, “It looked good, I wanted it, and I didn’t think about the consequences” Instead they say things like “well, everyone else was stealing candy that day. And besides, I was starving because mom didn’t feed me that morning!! And I never get candy – my parents won’t allow it!!” the child is just trying to relieve their own guilt, and justify their bad behavior. Your WH is doing the same thing.

His A will end some day. And he will realize that this OW was not the soul mate he once thought. He will realize she was just a woman – with faults and blemish like the rest of us. No better, no worse, just different. And that is when he realizes that you were not so bad after all. No better, no worse, just different.

You wonder whether you will get to see the end of the A, and hear him admit that he made a mistake, and learn that he has actually been miserable. I can say with 100%certainty that you will see all of these things – but you will not react the way you think you will.

You imagine it now, that when you finally hear about how miserable he really has been and what a huge mistake he made, you imagine feeling a little satisfaction. But in reality, you won’t feel satisfaction. You will feel anger, and disgust. Angry that he stayed in the relationship even after he started to see that it was a mistake. And disgust that he had a great wife, great kids, nice home, the respect of his peers, and threw it all away for nothing. You will feel like he is an idiot. I hate to even put those ideas in your head – but I just know how it feels. When you realize that his life has not been happy, loving, carefree, and fun these past few months – you will be disgusted.

My WxH told me that several people tried to warn him – that his A would end, that OW was not worth giving up his family, etc. And he kept thinking that everyone was wrong. They didn’t know him, they didn’t know her. He and OW swore that they would stay together no matter what – no matter how miserable – just to prove everyone wrong. When she kicked him out, she hooked up with another cop right away. And he told me that it turns out she was no different – everyone else was right all along, and that no matter how much you swear to stay together to prove everyone wrong, in the end you realize it isn’t worth it.

Now I am able to look back on my M and know that he did love me at the time. We had happy times. He went a different direction, and said a lot of hurtful things. But it wasn’t all bad, as he claimed. I can also see the bad times more objectively now. I no longer feel like our D was all my fault. I now see that for years he had woman “friends” who he would talk to about all his troubles – and that is just not right. And he will not give that up – he sees nothing wrong with it. I realize now that he has a habit of running from problems, and I spent our 18 years of M trying to hide any bad stuff from him, to make him happy. I think I was a good enough wife to keep him around for 18 years. If I had been a bad wife, he would have left sooner. I do not see him as a bad person – just a bad candidate for M (he is married to OW#2 right now – and although I rarely talk to him, I know from our boys that he is gone “fishing” most weekends. Hmmmmm)

You still have a very good chance of recovering your M, you really do. But you are looking into the future and making guesses that just aren’t reality. You will see his suffering some day. You will know that he is/has been miserable. Only it will not bring you peace. It will make you angrier.

I hear that you felt this way, Faith...

But I didn't feel the way you did at all when learning about my H's Plan B life...

When I say that I tried to maintain a PRESENT focus, I was dead serious about that...

You said:



I told myself that my H was DEAD to ME RIGHT AT THAT TIME..of PLAN B...I did not make ASSUMPTIONS about the future..because I had FAITH and trusted in the LORD..I'm not questioning your FAITH, Sis..I'm talking about mine..I knew that GOD would take care of me one way or the other so I learned not to worry about the FUTURE....



Fair and very reasonable questions...

All I can say is that I CANNOT REMEMBER A TIME WHEN I QUESTIONED MY PAST WITH MY H...even during my darkest hours, I clung to my memories of our POSITIVE TIMES...I can't speak for your situation, Sis..but I had and have many, many unforgettable memories prior to the A..that's why it was soooo UNBELIEVABLE to me that he could have an affair..I would say, NO WAY, NOT MY H...I took him for granted because for many years he was very much IN LOVE with me and treated me like a princess..NOW HE TREATS ME LIKE A QUEEN...that's another story of my life NOW....



NEVER, EVER..the MEMORIES kept me going..NO ONE COULD TAKE THOSE AWAY FROM ME...THOSE MEMORIES WERE AND ARE STILL REAL....

What is BAD..what I am STRUGGLING to FORGET are MEMORIES of the AFFAIR TIME..and that is what has been MOST DIFFICULT FOR ME...holding onto those memories like a SHIELD....



But he is NOT MARRIED to her..they don't have a NORMAL RELATIONSHIP...it is a relationship established with DECEIT and DISHONESTY and BETRAYAL...and all the other DECADENCE...

That relationship cannot withstand the LIGHT OF DAY...when they truly have to take a look at themselves and who they are and what they are doing...even if you do not reconcile your marriage, that relationship has a low likelihood of continuing...NOTHING GOOD CAN COME FROM SOMETHING THAT BAD..that's my belief...



I hear that you are choosing to FEEL that way in order to cope. Is it working for you? It's not true. Every day that you look at your sons, you know that you hold a special and significant part of his past that cannot be denied.

WOF:
Another cop's wife? I didn't realize. We need our own thread. Heck, I could start a whole new board with BWs from WH's department alone.

Thank you for sharing that insight into your feelings about your memories. Time and space bringing some objectivity? I can't imagine it now...thinking of those times and not feeling that ache...forever. But on the other hand--even though it's a PALE comparison--I think about the guys I was SOO in love with in college (2 serious boyfriends in those years) and how devastating it was to break up; how I NEVER thought I'd be happy again...

I kind of smile when I think of THAT LilSis, so innocent, really. So needing to grow older, wiser, more mature in order to have some context for those relationships. This may take WAAAAY longer, and since we have kids, it will never be the clean break that those were, but maybe it will get to that same place. And since I'm older, wise, more mature, it won't be as bad as I imagine.

You have a good point about what my reaction would be to him coming to me with apologies. I'm sure I would be very angry and very disgusted. And while I have this sense about myself that--FINALLY!--I get to work on something that is CONSTRUCTIVE and positive, instead of working on de-constructing my marriage and family.

But...this nagging doubt. Could I live with that? Would I trust him enough? Could I really let him back in? How would I hold myself back from wanting to push everything too fast and too hard?

SNAP!!

Well, it's TOTALLY moot today! I've got to clean house and get some laundry done before I leave for my conference tomorrow AM. My mom's coming to stay with the boys and I need things clean or she'll comment for sure... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Go ahead...question my faith. I do it every single day... because I am AFRAID of the future, and I know that I shouldn't be. I should be HERE, now, present.

Maybe it's all the D stuff...needing to make decisions. Like today, the HR person was talking about me going full time, and I went in and talked to her and my supervisor about staying hourly for the time being, because I don't need the benefits yet, and it gives me the flexibility to be around for the boys by just upping my hours.

It can be difficult to be present-focused when I feel like I have to be on guard, making GOOD decisons, because some of the decisions I make now will have a lifelong impact...assuming the D goes through. I need to have a well-thought out strategy.

I also have wonderful, unforgettable memories PRE-A and I NEVER EVER would have thought that he would betray me.

But I now question even those pre-A memories...was he really unhappy then? were those memories as special to him as they are to me? Because if those memories have any significance, how could he do what he has done? Is it just the fix? I just question it...my perceptions...my intuition...whatever it is that tells me those were happy times, because my ability to trust anyone, even myself, has been compromised.

I can see that...and that fits in with what I am trying to say...the A-time memories (pre-d-day) are all totally tarnished. They are desecrated. They feel like lies, lies, lies. And the number of times that I cried, begged, pleaded with him to get help because I feared for our relationship and our boys and our familiy (I was convinced he was severely depressed).

It makes me sick to think that for two full years, he allowed me to run myself into the ground, knowing full well what the problem was, that he treated me with near open hostility, to the point I would CRY...and he would blame ME.

So with all that, it's HARD not to go back to every memory PRE-A and wonder with EVERY HAPPY MEMORY...was he looking for a way out THEN? Was he feeling dissatisfied THEN? Was he miserable THEN? Was he faking it THEN?

I certainly agree wholeheartedly from the second statement. I guess my question is that their relationship is VERY REAL, very SUSTAINABLE to them NOW...will it be REAL to them forever? Even after it crashes and burns (which it inevitably will)?

But it IS being denied...and see above...I am forced to question every part of my relationship with WH, pre-A included. He will ALWAYS have that special part in MY past, but he is seemingly erasing me, or trying to erase me, from his. ??? That's what it feels like, anyway...

Or at the VERY LEAST, he's already gotten to that point that I described above...looking back at a relationship that was ONCE very significant and now it just seems like a trifle...a minor road bump in my whole "real" life, on the road to where I was REALLY SUPPOSED to be. I was so convinced that I found that place when I met WH.

Is this just MY fog? Maybe it's just BS fog...something that will become more clear with time and space??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />