LilSis,
I've only said "hi" once, but I wanted to comment on what you said about everything being tainted, even preA.

At first I felt the same way (at DDay and months later). I never had to go into a real plan A or B so recovery started soon after. Anyway the further I get into recovery the more it feels like "just a bad time frame" in our M. It doesn't FEEL like everything is tainted now. I believe TIME will change that perspective for you if recovery begins.

BTW you are doing great!!!!!

I don't know if this helps or not...but my OUR PAST seems even MORE SPECIAL to my H..but he's always been a reminiscent type of guy..took most if not all of the pictures....he LOVES talking about the GOOD and SPECIAL parts of OUR PAST and does so FREQUENTLY...I don't see why it would be any DIFFERENT FOR YOUR H...



Yes. He's RUNNING FROM THE PAST. He's doing and thinking anything possible to JUSTIFY CONTINUATION OF HIS AFFAIR...

When my H says that IT WAS HIS PAST that he could not FORGET even though he tried to put it behind him..I've been telling you this because that is what he has said to me..that I "HELD"..his "PAST"....



You're in the RIGHT CLUB..This is EXACTLY what happened to ME...Most if not all the EXPERIENCES that you have had and our having we've all had, Sis...IT IS ALL SCRIPTED IN THE HANDBOOK...



Yes is the answer to these questions if it was during the time period when he had become ADDICTED to her. I'm not talking about that time. I'm talking about when he was IN LOVE with you....

Bsck later...

After I wrote this, I was thinking about it. Having this imaginary conversation with WH. Telling him, "You WERE happy! You DID love me! RIGHT UP UNTIL you got addicted. Your addiction consumed you, and all your priorities and values have been turned upside down because of it. If you hadn't gotten addicted, you would love me still."

I don't think he fell out of love with me before the A. I KNOW he didn't find something better. I think he still loved me, he just got hooked; became a junkie. There he was on the path, still loving me--a little frustrated because he getting all of his needs met--and this little distraction, this little amusement, suddenly became a complete detour from his real life.

It wasn't love. It was an addiction that has become a lifestyle.

Again...VERY VERY GLAD and relieved to know it is all scripted...that everyone seems to have had these same feelings and same experiences. The more I put my feelings out here, and the more that others say, Amen, BTDT...the more "normal" I feel. Does that make sense?

I'll give an example of a memory Pre-A that I thought was tarnished forever. The memory of being pregnant with our only son. My WH told me (after his A began - when DS had just turned 3) that HE didn't want kids, that I wanted them, so he felt like he HAD to do it. Wow, that was a HUGE blow.

Well, I was just recently going through some old pictures from our Canon camera, and I found one of those 1 min clips that you can film on the digital cam. It was of me, about 8 mos pregnant. I was dancing to some old R&B song, "Who's that Lady", and then I heard my H speak in the background, behind the camera. He sounded so happy, he laughed and joked about how large I was. A good memory. I can embrace those, because they are real, and true. Even if I D, I will still have those memories, PRE-A.

I have been in and out of the same thoughts that you are having now, and I have found it hard to have faith.

I am beginning to TRULY believe what many have said here about their experiences, AND the SCRIPT that most WS follow. The one thing that I get caught up on is that I hate that statment, "...even if your M doesn't recover, you will..." Problem is, I've always wanted a recovered M. Sometimes I agree with Eav, I don't want to hear the negatives. I get tired of them, because THE NEG's LIVE IN MY HEAD DAILY.

I do wonder if the memories we have, IF WE DON'T RECOVER OUR M (yuck) are tainted forever. It would be good to hear Believer chime in here...womanoffaith's perspective has already helped. I would think that time will help to gain perspective.

Continuing...

You said:



Yes, it will be a REAL part of your H's past....but it certainly won't be part of his POSITIVE memories if there is RECOVERY for you two...

Yes, my H REALLY had a R with another woman..I've had to ACCEPT that...



WHY? It seems like to me that you are CHOOSING to do this. I'm encouraging you NOT TO...



He's TRYING to but he CAN'T...

He sees his sons just like you do...



SNAP...your GOAL for RIGHT NOW is to STOP LOOKING BACK...

IT IS WHAT IT IS TODAY...

Mimi, how did you and how have you remained so POSITIVE? It's amazing to watch you whip the BS into shape.

SL: You are my SISTER. Your words are mine. Your feelings mirror mine. I am so sorry you are going through this, but I am so grateful to have you with me on this journey...


I understand what you are saying mimi. And intellectually and emotionally, it makes sense. But for some reason, I need to figure this out. Make sense of the nonsensical, or at least come to terms with the fact that it will never make sense?

It's part of the self-discovery bit. I'm taking stock. I need to do this...not as a way to DWELL on the past, but to UNDERSTAND it. It could be that it's much TOO EARLY to do this effectively, the wounds are still too raw. But at some point I know I will have to come to terms with it, and I guess I'm just poking around the edges of that wound...because it's one that I haven't even really dealt with yet.

I don't even know if it's a deep wound, or just a rug burn, because I haven't really dared look yet.

He loved me, and now he doesn't. How does that happen?

If I could TRULY, TRULY believe the analogy I gave earlier...the one where he's on a path loving me, and some minor distraction took him off on this total detour...the addiction, etc. If I can believe THAT, then my memories are safe.

If I have that metaphor to hang my memories on, they can be safe. and I can replay them, like SL's pregnant dance tape. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Irrefutable. (sp?)

So that must be what I am searching for...a metaphor (that's just how my mind works...always in images, metaphors..blah blah...SB can have a field day with me). Some way of really UNDERSTANDING and INTERNALIZING what has happened in a way that doesn't make ME the bad guy, doesn't make H the bad guy, allows WH to redeem himself if he chooses, allows me to create my own life free of shame, guilt and regret, and keeps my memories safe for me and the boys.

Make sense?

SL/Sis:

I'm glad you are coming to REALIZE that I have DEFINITELY been in YOUR SHOES. I've had MOST if not ALL of your SAME EXPERIENCES and my H was LIKE YOURS...

I'm positive because I KNOW THAT IT CAN HAPPEN...

No one can tell ME that RECOVERY IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR A CRACK-HEADED, BULLHEADED WH...

Ok. It may not happen for you...but IT CAN HAPPEN...

If you can come up with SCENARIOS that make your Hs sound DIFFERENT THAN MINE DID, then I will step back..

But Sis keeps on describing experiences that sound EXACTLY like mine did...

The only difference she noted today was that she has been married for a shorter length of time...BUT I don't think that matters...

Sis:

Have you read SURVIVING AN AFFAIR?

I read it over and over DAILY....during PLAN A and PLAN B...

Dr. Harley explains a lot of your questions....

THIS IS WHAT STEVE TOLD ME. "YOU HAVE GOT TO GET THIS"..is what he said to me...and I had faith..and FINALLY BELIEVED STEVE..he was SOOOO right about my H...

And my H definitely considers his A as having been an ADDICTION...A "SICKNESS"..and a "WALK ON THE WILD SIDE"...

Y'know, it's been quite a long time since I read SAA; at least a year. It's a pretty quick read. I think I'll pick that up, as well as some other books I've had sitting on the shelf. Good reminder Mimi, thanks. And, yes, I have come around quite a bit. My WH is like so many others that I have read about here. Maybe one difference is the LOSSES that he has sustained in such a short time in his life, the abandonment pattern was repeated over and over.

BUT, I have always been there to help him, to listen, to talk to. I 'get him', as HE put it recently. With that, and despite all of the turmoil he has been through, I STILL believe he follows a script. I'm holding to that right now, because it's unfolded in such a way that I have seen things much more clearly.

Again, I think I'm just illen' and having a bad day. I feel better this evening.

Sis, ALL along, I have believed that your M CAN recover. You are burdoned with a lot right now, and will, naturally, question EVERYTHING. Mimi has a very good point about leaving the past there, as it was and as it is. Jennifer mentioned this to me when I counseled with her, that the past serves no purpose in RECOVERY, only LESSONS learned from it serve a purpose.

I can read it and read it (yes, I have SAA) and hear it and hear it...but I'm either slow or hard-headed. Or...as my educator side would say...I have a different learning style. I require "experiential" learning. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Seriously...it's a matter for me of INTERNALIZING it. Believing it and understanding it and processing it to a point that it becomes a TRUTH for me. Like the Truth that H loved me and our boys. Like the Truth that I love my boys. Like the Truth that God loves me, and WH, and even RT.

Accepting the addiction thing...internalizing it...means taking myself off the hook in a lot of ways...maybe that's part of why I instinctively resist it. Accepting it means I can't blame myself. It means I can't find faults in myself and castigate myself and torture myself for causing this. It's a different kind of letting go.

Like SL was saying...I have always been very self-critical. If something goes wrong in my life, it's because I did something wrong that caused it. You get what you deserve. Don't shirk your responsibility...and while you are at it, take on everyone else's, too.

So making this leap...that would be REAL growth for me, because I always have to take responsibility. I can't give myself a break. I need to be perfect and do everything right...and then everything will turn out the way it is supposed to. So if my marriage didn't turn out the way it was supposed to, it's because I didn't do everything right.

That's my life-long Truth...do you see? Since childhood. I have to UN-TIE this old Truth, and create a new one.

Only I don't know quite what the new Truth is going to be yet.

Something like...WH didn't do this because of some drastic failing on my part, but because of some failing on his part, some vulnerability that he fell victim to, that overtook him and turned his values system on its head. It's not ABOUT ME.

Maybe because it is SO PERSONAL...what can be more personal and more intimate than a marital relationship?...that's why it is SOOO hard to INTERNALIZE that it isn't about me.

I don't know if that makes ANY SENSE. I'm rambling and trying to say something concise but it's not coming...

Sis, I felt the same during my ordeal. I couldn’t get past “How could this be? It’s not real.” I kept telling people “but I KNOW him… this isn’t him… this isn’t who he is…” I also blamed myself and told him repeatedly (more like begged) that I was sorry for my part in this and naming all the things I would do to make it better and make it work. (Boy this is one place I wish I’d known about MB.)

I didn’t even recognize him. I kept wanting to thump him on the head and ask “where are you??” I know you’re in there somewhere. At one point, he screamed at me, “Don’t you get it? I don’t love you. I’ve NEVER loved you!” I’m in love with OW and we’re going to make a life together.

It wasn’t me. It wasn’t our history (the good, bad or the ugly). It was him. No excuses. Period. He CHOSE to do what he did. It had NOTHING to do with our past, present or future.

Just recently we’ve talked about that time and he says, “You have to understand Meg, I was in ‘la la’ land and ALL of my thinking was twisted. I lied to you, to myself, to OW, to my kids, to everyone, to justify what I was doing. I lied about the lies. I couldn’t stop.” He says he reached the point where he didn’t believe that he could EVER make it right again. He says he had to be cruel to make me believe him. In fact, I found out that one of the OW TOLD him that he had to be cruel to make me let go.

Don’t go there Sis. Snap! Your memories are as good as you remember. There is NOTHING he can do to change that. Don’t take those “good memories” away from your kids. Some of those good memories belong to them too.

I still BELIEVE that your marriage will recover. I pray for that for you all the time. But if for some reason it doesn’t… you can hold your head high and know that it wasn’t anything that you did and that your good memories of your marriage really are good… and not tarnished by his actions.

Princessmeggy,

When you wrote about your WH telling you don't you get it I don't love you anymore... those are words that my Wh just recently said to me. It's really helpful to see that WH are essentially the same. Not that it makes it any easier.

(((LilSis)))

We are going to grow through this... we will become stronger. Keep praying for strength. I still pray amost every night for God to let my love into WH heart.

Still

LilSis ~ you are going through a growth process. There are no shortcuts - you can't just wake up one morning with a completely different perspective and wisdom on life.

You are doing great - you are a much better student than I was. (I think I hold the record for most stubborn and argumentative, my plan is better than God's plan, woman ever!)

It's not a comfortable position....but generally, change happens at rockbottom...and you are climbing out of rockbottom.

People change when the pain-of-staying-the-same is greater than the pain-of-change. So by the very nature, change is not a comfortable place to be. But don't worry, you will find a new comfort zone, and it will be a much healthier, much more peaceful, more content spot than any you have ever been in.

Sis & Still -- I believe your WH love you... they just may not BE in love with you at the present time... or what they think being in love is.. in their coo-coo heads right now

Hope this helps, car

Sis,

I hope you understand what an amazing woman you are and how amazing you have been through your entire ordeal. You have gained my admiration, and the admiration of many, many people!

Not only your strength and personal growth are testiments to you, but openess and your willingness to share yourself in this most difficult of journeys displays a courage to be praised and admired!

Princessmeggy you said


My WS JUST said this to me,,, that "His friends have told him he's going tohave to be a JERK to get me to understand that it is over"

Thanks for sharing from your FWS,,,,and demonstrate again that they are SO alike! The ray of HOPE that if your FWS said this in the past, yet you are recovered today is very special to so many of us,,, THANKS

Sis- Sill - Hang in there!!

Taking yourself off the hook for things you did not cause is a pretty good role model for the boys, don'cha'think ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Don't you want your boys to accept they did not cause this Daddy-problem to happen ?

I know you do <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
YOU must live this acceptance in order to maintain the position of moral authority ... as you teach your boys by example as well as by word. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You're doing just fine. As my good friend and mentor BrambleRose said ... you are living this process.

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When I first came here I was AMAZED at how many things WS's were saying that could have been taken verbatim from conversations with my FWH. If I had only known... I wouldn't have taken so deeply to heart. It was fogwash! And not even original fogwash!

SL and Sis... don't lose heart... there's always hope.

Sis,

I'd love to serve up a perfect analogy for you to help you internalize the problem you are having with the "tainted memories". But I just can't think of one off the top of my head. So, maybe just some reality here?

Consider what you are saying to yourself. You are *trying* to rewrite your marital (and perhaps your love/relationship) history to say that your WH never really was the person you thought he was. That he never was a good man, that he didn't love you the way you thought he did. That all of the memories are invalid.

That would require quite a conspiracy on his part, I think. And a class-one actor as well. He would have to have been on the top of his "game" for a very long time, with quite a few people, every single day. Pretty hard to do, to fool that many people for that long! Because if you believe the "rewrite", then everyone at your wedding believed him, all his friends believed him, your family, his family, everybody at work, etc. And not only about how he loved you, but his other aspects of his personality too.....

Hard to swallow, that.

No, I don't buy your rewrite. And you can't buy his rewrite either, which he probably has (because it goes with the SCRIPT).

Your memories are true memories. The love was there. The happiness was true. The laughter was honest.

And then he fell.

But under the rules of your church

He can get up



As can all under the Christian God

Because all are redeemable



So it is for this very reason that I will believe in the recovery of your marriage.

Because it is so hard for me to believe that such a good man can fall so far down without it bothering him. I count on that being what calls him home.

Because I will hold out hope that deep down, he is still your "H", and that your "H" is battling that "WH" and "RT" and the addiction.

For the love he knows is there for you.

Because he also knows you hold the true memories, the pure history, and the true love for him.

I will hold out hope. I will still pray every day for your marriage. Until you tell me to stop.

SB