ummmmmmm

coz this is what you learned growing up with a hyper-critical mother

time to cut that out

you're a big girl now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Time to face the fact of your own awesomeness ... it's scary, I do understand

but the fact that you are exceptional just has to be faced

hanging onto the familiar "what does ~other~ (Mommy) think of me" ... is a part of your childhood that you really have outgrown ... a childhood remnant

let go joyfully and really admire what God made ~~~> YOU

Pep

I sense that the consensus on the board is encouraging your effort in this direction, but after some hesitation I would like to offer an alternative suggestion. I hope the experts will comment as I'm not at all sure.

Plan A demanded intense emotional self-control and excluding negativity. But now plan B is in place. You're removed from regular contact. Plan A depended on you; Plan B on time, memories, and reality.

To me it doesn't seem necessary to stay bright and cheerful anymore. Are those negative thoughts things you could now you let yourself feel without risking complete collapse ?

I have an intuition -- subject to the confirmation of the experts! -- that directing your Bible reading to the grim, despairing, grief-stricken, agonized sections would be good for you at this point. You could allow those sacred texts which God inspired in human authors who were in the same agony of pain, grief, doubt, and despair to resonate with YOUR feelings and honor and sanctify them.

Lamentations, Job, the Psalms....that sort of thing. The Passion of Our Lord.

Ahhh, Pep! What a wonderful thing to read first thing in the morning!!! Thank you! As soon as I read this I knew what I had to do: go back and re-read "Life of the Beloved" by Henri Nouwen. It's practically a step-by-step manual on how to come to understand that we are all the beloved children of God. Totally, completely, unconditionally loved. It is probably something that I should go back and read at various stages...because it will probably have a new and different meaning for me now than it did a couple of months ago.

Thank you for pointing me there.

Just an aside about my hyper-critical mother to give you all an idea. She came to stay with the boys while I was in Detroit. When I got home yesterday afternoon, she started. "Why doesn't DS11 eat more? He's so picky! I don't know WHAT you feed those boys. And he made a smart remark to me while we were at the grocery story and I just won't tolerate that!"

"Do you think that their appetites are suppressed by those fragrance things that you have in the house? They are so STRONG! I just can't stand that. I don't know how you can stand it. I think that that smell must make them less hungry. DS8 had seconds, though."

I have those wallflower things (cinnamon/vanilla) from Bath and body Works...ONE on each floor and a nightlight one in the bathroom. It's just something I like. To me it's soothing and comforting, like the smell of something baking. It's MY house, and *I* like it. MYOB, mom. I'm friggin' 39 years old.

She left about 45 minutes after I arrived and she probably spent half of that time in negative-land. The other half of the time she spent asking me if I wanted something to eat (literally, I counted, she asked me eight times). I had eaten on the road so I wasn't the least bit hungry, but she doesn't listen. She wants things HER WAY, and when I don't comply, she is disappointed in me, and makes no secret about it.

Sigh. Actually, I can smile about it now, but I happen to be in a "good" place today...other times it brings me really low.

I have come to a place where I need to ACCEPT that is how my mom is, understand it, and put up that invisible shield to deflect the bad. I know she loves me, and I love her, but the daggers don't stop flying. I want and need to have a relationship with her, but ACCEPTANCE is the only way I can do so and still retain my self-worth.

I have very kindly broached this subject with her (her negativity), and she got INCREDIBLY defensive. "I DON'T think I'm negative! Should I just not SAY anything??? "

Well actually, YES, mom...

I just quit that conversation and decided to just accept her, limit my contact, and be very wary of the daggers.

How to handle a hyper-critical loved one..

"You've done something different with your hair. I like it." (compliments throw this sort of person off their usual game, because they are coming from their OWN negative place when they criticize others, and a sincere compliment is a curve ball)

"Oh Mom. You just love me way too much! "( said with a smile and accented with a kiss)

"I like that you noticed my home fragrance." (simply state what she did in a neutral way)

"It's so good of you to pay attention to these things. Thanks Mom." (a sort of kindly reverse babble that changes the subject to HER goodness and away from your so-called inefficiency)

"Do you have any new soup recipies?" (flat out hijacking)

It's actually very easy to manipulate her ... here's how:

1. recognize she is very needy (it is not about you, it is about her)
2. recognize she wants attention (give her positive remarks, she will shut up quicker)
3. wear your hazmat gear and let all seemingly insulting remarks be filtered, never eaten whole
4. she can be distracted if you compliment her/agree with her/show her UNearned affection (hug/kiss/giggle ... say "Thanks MOM" like she just paid you a compliment)
5. don't dance to her music, make your own

It's simple, really
Just takes practice

Pep

Hey, great tips, Pep. I will forward to my sisters...who suffer from the same woes that I do, but proportionately less or more depending on the geographic distance from Mom. The sister living in Japan is pretty safe. Unfortunately for my recently D'd sister, they share a home. She is really struggling.

Pretty simple, but pretty wise, too. I'm a slow learner. I know there's a clear relationship between my mom's criticism (since childhood??) to how beaten down I feel by WH's manipulations...how he SAYS and implies that I'm crazy, that others have given up on me, that I disappointed him in our marriage, that I was a bad wife, that it's my fault that he had to go off and find someone else...

I was never good enough for mom, and I wasn't good enough for my husband, either.

At some point in my life I have to pick myself up and decide that I'm good enough for MYSELF and stop defining my "goodness" by how other people see me. I don't know how to do that. I really don't. I need CONSTANT validation; you've all seen that. Yuck.

"Life of the Beloved," here I come. God loves me...even if NO ONE else does (which I know they do...as long as I don't disappoint them, ha ha!).

My MB friend "Susan" has a Mom similar to yours ... You are right at the age where you are ripe to toss out her opinions of you ... but still love her for being your Mom

*snort*

been listening to your MOTHER again ?????

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

don't you see WHY ????

An "imperfect child" reflected poorly on ~~~> HER

so nothing short of "perfection" in her children would do .... a totally unrealistic, unachievable , and selfish goal.

YOU needed to be perfect so she would look good ~~~> TO OTHERS .... who really don't give a damn

BUT, you can stop the cycle with yourself, if you want

Pep

Tee Hee. I don't think you did the penance I assigned you about six weeks ago which touched on this very issue! Wicked LilSis! How imperfect of you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Nouwen is great. That book sounds like just what you need.

I've been perfectionist, too. There's an subtle little circle in it. You recognize that you need constant validation because you feel this need to be perfect. You see that that is an imperfection. You decide to get rid of the need for constant validation. But that's still trying to be perfect, my dear LilSis!

Could you maybe switch the SOURCE of the constant validation to Our Lord? What's HE think of you?

[threadjack]
Hi Pep! (waves)

Dear me, I really have to go. MB is just turning into a wicked temptation for me -- sitting inside on a computer on a sunny spring day!
[/threadjack]

What a BLESSING Pep is to YOU, ME and US!!!

She spoke to me, too, many times...

Like an ANGEL was being sent from Heaven...

I know you may be MODEST and HUMBLE about this PEP...

But I can't help but say it...

I'll NEVER FORGET when PEP was the only one HERE that day telling me that I was on the way to ANOTHER FALSE RECOVERY...

I'm so THANKFUL TO THE LORD that you were HERE at that time, PEP and I listened to YOU and confronted my H and he confessed, called the OW right that minute ALMOST...

What you are saying about SIS and her MOM is SOOOO right on..

I was THERE..on the perfectionism,trying to please... and have GROWN WAY PAST that Sis..took years of psychotherapy..but listening to PEP here may save you lots of TIME and MONEY... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

((( Pep )))

Let me - again - thank you for all the wise sharing that you do on this forum... Your advice is always

So simple

So correct

So needed


Sis ~ Can you believe how lucky we are to have all this wisdom right at our fingertips every day !!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Lil Sis - I'm feeling like I'm reading retro Mimi in your shaken faith in your husband's core goodness ever being there. Talk about Deja Vu!

I'm so glad Mimi is here to give you the benefit of her experience because she also struggled, but she also kept stepping forward into her process, right through calling a realtor, selling the house that she had shared with her WS, and then buying a new house all by herself, dealing with the fallout and her son...

Chin up girl! You're right on track with where you need to be.

All the best!

A: Yep! Vicious cycle indeed. And as the book that I am going to re-read says so perfectly, I am a beloved child of God....no matter what anyone else thinks. I only need to know this Truth.

Everyone: Yes...Pep's advice is so timely, so accurate. Knowing it is one thing, figuring out what to do about it is another....that's really hard work. Changing my whole way of relating to myself and to others. To own myself and to live for myself. Incredibly freeing on the one hand, very scary on the other.

Maybe one of the things that is scary is imagining that I will feel less connected to people that I love if I don't seek approval from them. And since I already feel disconnected..alone?...it is more frightening.

I'll do it though...I KNOW that I have to. I MUST. If WH came pounding on the door right this minute, I wouldn't be forced to continue this journey. God's pushing me along, me digging in my heels all the way...

Kayla: I'm glad that you see mimi reflected in me; it's another testament to the fact that I'm on the right track, working through all the same stuff that everyone else does. Whew! I'm not crazy.

And I'm going to the mall! All alone! No kids, no curfew, I can shop for as long as I want! I want to get a few new things for ME for my trip, and I promised DS11 a shirt from Abercrombie (he's getting to that stage now!).

I was thinking...I have you all here to thank for pushing me to go on this trip! I wouldn't have done it except for you all telling me to go out and live life! It's a very very teeny tiny version of selling the house, if you know what I mean! My way, my trip, my plan, my drive, my car, my hotel, my time.

GREAT question to explore with your IC.

GOOD JOB !

Pep

LS:

Not much to add.

I thought you were going to DC this W/E. But I guess it's next week.

Cherry Blossoms bloom this week..

Have fun.

LG

LilSis,

Just wanted to pipe in my support and let you know I'm still praying for you and your marriage.

I think you are doing great... keeep it up.

Still

Sis,

Validation through others - I used to search for that, and sometimes fight the urge against it still.........until I realized something very important about most of the people in my life.

They don't think much about other people.

Not enough to worry about validing ME.......

So my searching their eyes, their hearts, to validate me was fruitless.

Sad to say that most of the people I know are so wrapped up in trying to validate themselves, they are lost for validating me.

Which led me to realize -

I was turning to the weak, when I needed to turn to the strong. I was definitely searching in ALL the wrong places.

And where should I have been looking?

I will leave you to think about that one yourself.


SB

I know exactly where I need to look. To God. That still small voice.

And I don't know if this is theologically correct, but I see God as in me, in my soul, as part of me. He created me, after all, so there must be a part of Him in me. His voice should be the one I hear most clearly, if only I could tune in to that frequency.

Sometimes I think I'm there, that I won't be so devastated by criticism, and wham! I'm a little heap. And sometimes (oftentimes! maybe most times!) that criticism comes from my SELF! That is so self-defeating. I need to exorcise that voice...my mom's voice?...and start to listen to the still small voice, the voice of compassion and unconditional love.

Right?