I almost hate to post this --

But, we all want the best for Sis, so --

Ohio State in finals


Sis ~ I do have a feeling you know your sports... congratulations girl !!!

I sure do. I remember being in my 40's and in tears because I had told my mother about getting a "perfect score" on my evaluation at a job that was very important to me at the time. I was so happy because I just KNEW she was going to be proud of me.

Her response was "that CAN'T be right. No one is perfect."

I remember exactly where I was sitting at the bar in her kitchen while she cooked. I remember the lump in my throat and getting up to walk away so that she wouldn't see my tears and how hurt I was.

It took me a long time to realize that her responses are because of HER issues, not me. She needs to snuff out my light to make HER light appear brighter.

I know she loves me, in her own way, and even though it is not the way I need her to love me, that's ok. It took a long time, but I'm finally happy and content with myself regardless of her opinion.

And guess what. Once I reached that point, things have gotten better with her. Oh wait, maybe it is just ME and I can handle it better. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It was hardest to handle when we were dealing with problems in our marriage.

I don't post much, but I check in and catch up occasionally. It may not feel like it, but you are doing great!

BAD DREAM. I have't had a dream at all that I can remember in a long time, and early this morning I had a bad dream...like a nightmare, the really vivid kind where it all seems real and I woke up all distraught and confused.

It started with WH and I attending something together, with MIL. WH was sitting between us, with a large space in between, and I was ignoring him completely as I am in Plan B. Of course I was accutely aware of him, however. At some point, he put out his arms and pulled both of us towards him, hugging us both to his sides, saying something about how we were the most important women in his life.

Then we were talking and he took my hand and felt my wedding ring. I took his hand and he had his wedding ring on, too. I asked him what that meant and he said that it meant he knew what was important and he would do anything to put it all together. I told him we needed to go to counseling and he said yes. I said there had to be no contact, ever, forever with RT. He said yes.

So that's a good dream, right? Unfortunately, the cat (or something) disturbed me at that point, just enough to shift gears.

When the dream began again, everything was different. We were in the house and it was WH, the boys and I. WH was showing me pictures of houses he was looking at. They were all big huge new homes, way out of what his price range will be. I asked him how he expected to afford something like that, but I knew he had been telling the boys that he was looking for a house in the country with a big back yard for the dog to run around in (this is true, BTW...DS11 told me this the other day).

WH said that he'd be fine after the settlement. I told him that he will not recieve a settlement on the house until after the kids graduate (don't know where this comes from). He told me no, I'll have to buy him out now; that's just too bad. I began screaming at him about how he would displace his kids who have had so much disruption in their lives already, and put me in the poor house and he wouldn't even go to MC. I was screaming at him. It was ugly.

That's about when I woke up, and of course I was feeling distressed and worried. I began thinking about how I am doing fine now with WH making the house payment and paying CS and me working, but what about come summer, when my hours go down. What about when I have to pay the attorney again? What about when I have to start making the house payment as well? What am I going to do? And my brain is all foggy and I'm scared.

I began to pray...God has gotten me through some really ugly, scary times and he will get me through this. I can't worry about the future that is uncertain. I need to trust God. Even so, I prayed for Him to protect me from the ugliness. I am afraid of the ugliness.

I also prayed about WH. I really do feel that Plan B has allowed me to give him over to God. I am no longer trying to save him. I removed myself from that battle. So my only prayer can really be that God does His work on WH, whatever that work might be. That God not foresake WH.

It is Palm Sunday. Do Protestants celebrate Palm Sunday? Sorry if that's an offensive question, but I am really clueless. I always enjoyed Palm Sunday when i was a kid because we'd get those palm fronds and I would be busy braiding them or something during the boring parts. Isn't that awful? So I have some sympathy for my kids when they get fidgety. Anyway, I am going to the Protestant service today at the usual church.

Susan: Thank you for checking in and sharing your story. My mom has said, "Only God is perfect." I think I've said it to the boys as well, but only in the context of telling them to give themselves a break when they get too hard on themselves. I don't want them to end up trying to be little Mr. Perfects.

This is EXACTLY what I am striving for:
Intellectually, I know this. Getting there emotionally is a longer journey. A 39 year habit, actually, that I need to break.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm 51 and haven't been there long. It's a gradual process, but you have made the biggest step. You understand and accept your mother for how she is. Now you have to move your buttons and learn not to react.

You are doing far better than I was at your age.

lilsis!! OMG....you took the words right out of my mouth.....I think the one thing in the world I seek is validation...from everyone and anyone....so much so, that I have a real problem with procrastination....I don't make a move without getting approval from others...anyone will do....just someone to say "thats a good idea"....now, I ask myself....why can't I just be happy to know that what I chose for myself is right and good? I don't have a real answer but I guess asking the question is a start.

I am slowly trying to shed this mentality, but it feels as if I am walking a tightrope about to fall at any minute. change is hard...and painful. and we all have our ways of coping, changing that is life altering.

More on the validation thingy....

Besides the infidelity diet, which helped me along on another diet - I have lost 58 pounds.

Last summer I had breast reduction surgery as well.

This has led to a total body transformation for me, and I look much like I did when I was about 25. The problem is:

I don't look like "me" to me.

AND

Shopping for clothes for small boobettes is quite different from the way I used to have to shop! I have never before been able to just buy clothes that I liked. So many styles were completely off the radar for me, due to my "endowment", that shopping was not my favorite thing to do.

So I was left with this "new" figure, and no experience with how to dress it. I tried shopping for clothes that fit me, but left empty handed every time. I could not validate that the clothes looked right on me. My image of myself was off - WAY off. My mind had not caught up with what I looked like.

This is for real.

So I had to take people with me to shop for clothes. And with the weight loss and surgery, I NEEDED THEM!!! I had gone from an XL top to a Small. But I just could not buy anything if I went alone.

I desperately needed the validation of other people to reassure me that what I saw in the mirrow made sense, looked "right". Was "right".

With time, this has changed as well. I can buy some things alone. I do still ask the clerks, but I have bought - gasp - a swimsuit - on my own!

I see the validation thingy with the A as similar to this for me in my life. I keep searching to be sure that what I am feeling is "normal". MB says it is. I keep checking to be sure my perceptions at a given time were "right". Things like that. And I'm trying to validate that I am okay, that I can be ME again, inside and out, with the changes thrust upon me.

The hardest part is that I have trouble trusting my own judgement at times. I question it because I did not see the A happening under my own nose, and wonder how I could have missed it, how I could have not seen FWH going under. How I could have been so blind. That's the hard part for me, and I need to jump that hurdle.

Oh well, more work.

SB

schoolbus, I feel the same way....I look at it as an inability to trust myself....I don't know why I find it so hard to trust my own opinions and feelings. on second thought...I do know why....because WS NEVER validated me....ALWAYS criticized my thoughts and opinions....I was always WRONG...no matter what the topic...now, I wonder HOW WS could tell me my feelings were wrong? and HOW I believed that garbage? after all they are MY feelings right....I think I should be trusted to know my own feelings???

when I was viewed by WS as incompetent of having my own feelings, incompetent at making my own decisions, I gave away my power to decide for myself about what was right for me...for 15 years I listened to what others told me was right to feel. taking back that power is a difficult task...it feels uneasy...it doesn't feel the same...but guess what?? sometimes it feels more right than ever. I guess it was a process to learn, and will take time to unlearn that unhealthy behavior.

the best way to break a bad habit is to replace it with a healthy one. I am trying to creat a new habit of not asking anyone their opinion about anything that I do.....if I do it wrong, who cares, I allow myself the mistake....if I do it right, I build that trust in myself, and that belief in myself is priceless. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Exactly. How many times have I asked that in this or my old thread? "Has anyone experienced this?" "Am I normal?" "What IS this that I am feeling?" Thank God, people are here to tell me--yes, validate me--that I am experiencing the same things that they have experienced, therefore, I am "normal."

I asked my IC about this, and he said that it's normal to need someone to validate me when I am in such a state of chaos, because everything has been turned upside down...like trying to put your finger on something when you are really, really dizzy. It feels like a moving target, but really, it's just my mind playing tricks on me.

Once again, though, the A hit me at my Achille's heel. My need for validation is an outgrowth of my childhood, needing to be sure I was still loved and valued, because for some reason, I felt that love was conditional. With the A, not only was I not validated, I was rejected. Flat out. Tossed away like garbage. WH's actions and choices told me I was worth nothing.

Absolutely devastating. But again, here is the place where I can hear that others feel that same devastation.

Agreed. For me, I DID see it. I was desperately uncomfortable with RT/WH's relationship. I confronted him on it time after time. But she was my "friend," and he was my husband, and WH denied that they were anything more than friends...time after time after time. He criticized me for even mentioning it. I TRUSTED them both...to my great peril.

And for trusting them, I have been repaid with the greatest betrayal anyone could face.

So it's just as much about me trusting myself--because I could NEVER have believed it of WH and didn't allow myself to NOT trust him--but it's also about trusting others.

I don't know that I will ever trust again. Anyone. How can I let ANYONE get close to me again?

The prospect of my "new" life is pretty solitary. I can't trust. I can't seek validation. What role will people play in my "new" life? What kind of intimacy can I ever have again? Is God it for me? Is God the only truly fulfilling and abiding relationship I can ever have again?

No offense to God, but that seems like a lonely way to live, here in this life, anyway.

LilSis,

When He was walking around, the Lord healed people instantly....since then He usually prefers to take a little more time. For now, "in silence and hope is the strength of saints..."

LilSis - Did you ever have the book "What to Expect When You're Expecting" when you were pregnant with your kids? I devoured that book while pregnant with my first because pregnancy was so new to me and I desperately wanted to know if what was going on with me was "normal". Think of MB as the "What to Expect When You're Recovering From Infidelity" book. You are totally "normal" to post here to see if what you are feeling is "normal".



And let me reassure you, you will one day get to the place where you can trust again, where you will be able to develop relationships with people again. Where you will recognize yourself as being "normal" again.

Hang in there. You can make it. It won't be fast and it won't be easy but nothing in life that really matters ever is.


Edited to add: and yes, a lot of Protestant denominations celebrate Palm Sunday. We marched into church today waving our palm fronds.

Eaglesoar: I also devoured WTEWYE when I was pregnant the first time. I knew the thing by heart. I like that comparison. I appreciate the reassurances. Who's going to write, "What to Expect When You're Betrayed?" I vote for Neak.

I also learned firsthand that Protestants celebrate Palm Sunday; they did a processional with palm fronds today at the church I attended, too. Felt just like home, except we didn't get to take the fronds home to stick over the picture of Jesus. What's up with that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(Little Catholic humor there)

****

The boys arrived home from their w/e with WH. DS11 immediately told me that WH said that we could use the minivan for our trip instead of packing in the Vibe. He told the boys it would be much more comfortable.

He also told the boys that he would take the rats.

No thanks, and thanks.

The minivan is chock full of memories of the many vacations and trips we took together as a family. We criss-crossed the eastern US in that thing. It is also the "scene of the crime." (WH/RT's, not mine) I don't care how tightly packed in we are, I am not spending a week with the minivan. The Vibe and I have become good buds.

I don't know what WH's plans are for getting the rats if he's planning to take them. We leave Tues. very early. My intermediary is in Arizona (this is spring break week and EVERYONE is gone) so he'd have to call her on her cell and she'd have to call me, etc. At this point I'm having my neighbor (who is getting my mail and feeding the cats) just drop in some food and keep the water filled.

Another thing that stung a little....DS11 said that he needs to take his camera because Nana wants pictures (MIL). I asked if he had spoken to Nana and he said yes. This hurts because I am coming to the conclusion that you all have warned me was coming.

Over the past three-four months, I don't think MIL has called me once. Every time we speak, it is because I call her. She doesn't email (although to her credit she has limited access to the internet). I try to avoid calling her unless I really need some support, so I'm usually in "a state" by the time I call. She is so incredibly warm and supportive and loving...but then she NEVER calls a day or two later to check up on me or to make sure that I'm okay or doing better. KWIM? That just seems so weird to me.

The last time I spoke to her was the day the email came through from RT's son and I was sobbing and horribly upset. She had company and was just getting ready to leave with them so couldn't talk long, but she said she would call me that night. She never did. This is the second time this has happened....same thing when I called her after receiving some D papers unexpectedly.

Maybe it's like Susan says about my mom...I just have to accept that she loves me, but she can't love me in the way that I need.

Too bad, because my mom is always THERE for me, but not in a WAY that I need. MIL is there in the WAY I need, but not always THERE.

I need to keep MIL at arm's length. I don't feel like I can trust her...not necessarily with information--I think she'll keep that to herself--but I can't trust her to be a safety net for me. I need to rely on myself, on God, on my good, close friends, on my sister, and yes, on my mom (like I said, she'll come at the drop of a hat if I need her to help out, but once she's here...).

It was probably too much to ever expect MIL to play that role, anyway. But it still stings a little....

Sis,

A long time ago (30 years!) My FWH and I went through a separation. My ILs never contacted me once throughout the entire thing. Not one single time. They always thought I was not good enough for my H.

My parents never contacted me either. When I called, in crisis, to let them know my H had walked out without warning, they asked me what I had done to him!!!! Everyone assumed I was bad, I had done something, I had driven him off. Some support network.

Everyone in my life believes my FWH is the perfect guy. He would never do anything to me, and that I "married up". That in our relationship, I am not worthy of him. So when this affair happened, I told him he could leave, and tell everyone whatever he wanted. Because, in my life, nobody would believe that I did nothing to cause this affair. He knows that's true, and was crushed, because he felt so guilty - and yet knew that the truth would be that the "family" would throw in behind him if I left. Regardless of what he said, or told them, or tried to tell them.

So on the trust issue, I haven't trusted anyone in my family for 30 years. Not worth it - and the affair has only reinforced that now, really, no one is trustworthy. I hope that someday that changes. Right now, I don't see it happening anytime soon.

And it doesn't sting a little - it hurts a lot.

[[[[[[sis]]]]]]]]]


SB

SB... to this day, the only time I ever cursed at my mother and father was when they asked after my separation what I had done. I had bottled up inside me all the hurt of discovering my wife cheating.... and I never stopped loving her so I didn't want to share with my family that she had cheated... so they just assumed that it was me! Boy, did I go off on them that night...finally let it fly after holding it all in. It was a great night for all of us when the dust settled...they NEVER again took sides against me with anyone and my father and I grew much closer because of it. He also never spoke another word to my ex wife.

Lilsis.. I don't post much on your thread any longer...you seem to be getting great advice... but I want you to know how well you seem to be doing. I am sorry things have worked out this way with your MIL... but blood is thicker than water. It's a shame because I don't think parents realize the impact they can still have in their children's lives.. even as adults. Your MIL/FIL were in a great position to help you and their grandchildren and like most, they have dropped the ball... what a shame.

Take care LS...

MEDC

SB: I am so sorry to hear about your situation; it's heartbreaking. I know that I have been very fortunate for having so much support for so long...I should be grateful for what I have had, not resentful that it won't continue indefinitely.

MEDC: I'm glad to see a post from you. Just stop by and say hi every now and then, 'kay? I know there's not much to say these days in the darkness of Plan B, but it's good to know you're checking in, and your usual sign-off, "You are doing great." That validation thingy, ya know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You make a great point about the impact that parents can have on the lives of adult children. Unfortunately, in this case, the impact that ILs are having only enables WH to continue to hurt me and their grandchildren. IMO, it's all because they are terrified of conflict...unwilling to stand up for what is right because it might make waves and disrupt the false serenity of their lives.

It's sad, really. But it's very telling when you think of WH and how it was apparently easier for him to "fall into" an affair than to confront me with his fears, insecurities, and unmet needs. No one in that family is willing to FIGHT for what's right. Lots of talk, no action. No conflict. No waves. Lots of pretending.

Hopefully my boys will learn from me that it's important to fight for what you believe in and for what you care about...even if it's hard or painful. Too bad they've watched me fight to no avail. Not the best case example, I guess!

I give up! If I wait to say hi till I'm all the way caught up on what I missed, you won't hear from me for months. So I am just going to say it. "Hi!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know your goal is NOT to send a message but not taking that VAN will send a message of "SELF-RESPECT"..it is equivalent to me putting the house up for sale, I think..making a PERSONAL STAND...about what you will and will not accept. GREAT!!!

TRUST IN THE LORD, SIS..not any man..as much as the LORD...HE and ONLY HE WILL ALWAYS BE THERE FOR YOU...

LilSis,

Have fun in DC. We took our boys when they were the age of yours. We went to Arlington on Memorial Day and saw all the flags (every grave is decorated - brought a lump to my throat), went to tons of museums including Air and Space, went to the top of the Washington Monument. The only thing they now remember of the trip? Riding the Metro!

Well, at least we went back last year for Spring Break so they could make new memories!! And we saw the cherry trees! They were really pretty. I hope they are in full bloom for you.

I would rent a car before I "borrowed" the family mini-van-turned-affair-wagon!

WH sends a message thru the boys: "LilSis can take the big comfy van on her road trip." [color:"red"] TURDTRANSLATION~~~> [/color] [color:"blue"]"Ain't I a great and generous guy?" [/color]

There is ~still~ that part of him that needs his WIFE ~and~ his boys to admire him and think well of him....

.... not this time bubba

Pep

Personally, I would take the mini van to DC. I would park it and then rent a car and leave the van there! Leave the keys inside and ley your intermediary tell the WH that it wouldn't start and where he can find it. Oh, leave the light on too! Hmmm, well, maybe I would just want to do that... but I guess that would be a major lb! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />