OK

I was going to say this later in the process of Plan B ...

but since you brought it up

my opinion: (not calling this advice)

time to stop pouring your heart out to MIL

In all probability, she does discuss PARTS of these conversations she has with you ~~~> with WH

It is NO LONGER in your best interest or the best interest of your marriage to do this cathartic outpouring with MIL

It could easily be turned against you

No need to be rude to her ... but I implore you ... be guarded

this is PLAN B ... where your suffering, your thoughts, your strategy is supposed to be unavailable to WH

trust me, MIL will give her son ~some version~ of these conversations ... even if it is not exactly;
"LilSis says she is doing this because ...."

MIL will talk to her son
things will be revealed that are YOUR things

please be cautious
be friendly with her
but
for now
MIL has no reason to keep your conversations "dark"

please
be careful
be discrete
keep private things private with MIL

Pep

Pep:
You are right...and I think that's the epiphany I had while I was pouring my heart out to her. That elephant in the room...that chasm...is something that can't be breached or ignored. It poisons (for lack of a better word) what would be a deep and abiding relationship.

That and the fact that "deep and abiding" has a different meaning for her than it does for me. My relationships with my sisters and my long-time friends are very different from hers.

She did say that she doesn't talk to WH. I believe the remarks she made had to do with conversations that may have taken place when WH was there visiting.

Doesn't mean she doesn't say whatever she wants to say to FIL, who has no obligation to keep things confidential.

All in all...you are right. I would not have spoken to her at all, except that she called tonight.

No more...it's too painful to me and does my Plan B no good either.

BTW...WH came to pick up the rats...no contact. DS11, however, was downcast when I went upstairs around the appointed time of WH's arrival. "You aren't going to be here?" he asked. I told him no, I couldn't. I love dad with all my heart, but it just hurts too much to see him this way.

"But not the dad on the inside, right?" Yep...I agreed. Later, after WH left, I asked DS11 how he felt about the fact that I wasn't interacting with dad anymore. He doesn't like it; he liked it better when we talked. I explained that I understood, and as much as I want to make things easy for him (DS11), there are some things that I just cannot do. I won't pretend that what dad is doing is okay. I can't do that. He chose to hurt me, he choses to continue to hurt me, and that is wrong.

Why all this drama tonight? I just want to get out of here. This does not bode well for my trip. schoolbus...any "feelings?"

LilSIs,

Promise us that over the next few days you will not think about WH... just have a great trip with your boys and sister to Washington, D.C.

By the way drive safely.

Still

LilSis, I have had similar experiences with my ILs. When I finally exposed to them (after DDay#2...sigh), MIL said all the right things. It became apparent to me that she had actually had her own affair. She got it ("WW needs to listen to me...she needs to hear what I have to say").

I was encouraged by this. They must know that WW is making a terrible mistake--that it won't work out with OM, that it really *is* all about the affair. They're going to talk to her. Except they didn't, really. WW didn't want to hear it, and they are a family that hates confrontations and real communication, so they went away. I'm not sure they could have accomplished anything, anyway, but it was frustrating.

I continued talking with MIL, and she has seemed to become less and less supportive ("she's my child" and "you're putting me in an awkward position" and "she says that the separation would have happened without the affair") and finally forwarded at least one email I had sent her to WW. I sent MIL a short email asking which emails had she forwarded and why and got no response.

I have decided that I have no use for these people. They didn't make her have the affair, but the way they raised her certainly contributed to it happening as well as her inability to recover from it (and their inability to do anything to help). If she does not recover, I think that I will forever regret marrying into that mess of a family.

Sorry...got off on a bit of a rant. I think it is entirely normal for the ILs to be of no help to BSs (or WSs) because of the blood-is-thicker-than-water justification. They have their own Fog. Their own shaded glasses through which to look. It's not easy for them to face what a horrible thing their own flesh-and-blood is doing, either.

I think it's best if you don't contact the ILs anymore (this is what I have decided for myself, although I have to restrain myself from sending "Look! Look! See what she is doing!" communications). It's obvious that they should help you, but it seems unlikely that they actually will.

Still is right. Try to forget about all this and have a great trip with the boys.

(((LilSis)))

I'm willing to stick my neck out and guarantee you that beyond a shadow of a doubt you will in the end be THANKFUL for experiences like the one you had tonight with your MIL.

As hurtful as that conversation was, in the end, you GREW from it.

As I sit here tonight, I look back on such PAINFUL events and I am THANKFUL..that I am NO LONGER NAIVE about the WAY IT IS..

I FEEL VICTORIOUS OVER THOSE WHO CLOSE THEIR EYES TO THE TRUTHS ABOUT LIFE...

Sis, I think that one day you will be able to HOLD YOUR HEAD UP and say all of your pain IS GONE...and you will feel PITY for women such as your MIL...

LS

I have just best wishes for a happy healthy memory-making trip with your sons! Treasure it and don't waste any thought on a WS or his mother and father. Just you and your sons and the open road!

In the spirit of mental toughness - there's a saying that "living well is the best revenge."

Find a few really good mantras. In my religion, we have children's hymns that have been really helpful to me. One is a duet between a parent or teacher and the children. The children sing the first verse; the adults sing the 2nd verse then they each sing their individual verse simultaneously.

Heavenly Father, Are you really there?
And do you hear and answer every child's prayer.
Some say that Heaven is far away,
But I feel it close around me as I pray.

Heavenly Father, I remember now.
Something that Jesus told disciples long ago.
Suffer the children to come to me.
Father, in prayer I'm coming now to Thee.

Pray. He is there.
Speak. He is listening.
You are his child.
His love now surrounds you.

He hears your prayer.
He loves the children.
Of such is the kingdom,
The kingdom of Heaven.

If you can download it tonight perhaps you can teach it to your children on your trip. Sheet Music for "A Child's Prayer"
Instrumental audio clip - first song on this page

Most of all, just have fun - pick some silly songs for the road - and let that Vibe just Vibrate to joyful sounds!

LS:

Sorry about the Final Four Pool.

Enjoy the Cherry Blossoms!

LG

LG:
I think I came in second anyway. I won't spend the $25 all in one place. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Bye, everyone! I'll check back when I can, but we are laptop free on this trip. I'll be going through withdrawal...

(((MBers)))

LilSis

LilSis:

Hopefully your Trip to DC went well!

You got all the cold weather around here, however <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Let us know whats up!

LG

Hi Everyone, and Happy Easter.

We are back, and had a great time. Our hotel (which was fabulous, btw) was only about five minutes from the metro station, so we went into the city every day and did all the things we really wanted to do. It was chilly, but with all the walking we did fine.

My favs: The monuments, especially FDR and Veitnam.
The kids favs: Riding the metro, making their own waffles at the hotel breakfast, swimming (kids!) and The Spy Museum
My sister's fav: Arlington and changing of the guard.

Probably the biggest disappointment were the two Smithsonians (Natural History and Air and Space. Several of the exhibits that the boys wanted to see happened to be closed, and the lines (being spring break and Cherry Blossom Fest) were very long, so we skipped a few things as well. I'm sure that the fact that American History was closed contributed to the lines. I would have liked to see the National Archives, but there was a HUGE line there as well.

Those were the ONLY disappointments. We had a WONDERFUL time. The car ride was fine (I drove all but about 2 hours of the 11-hour each way trip). The Vibe was fine. The kids were great travelers...hardly bickered at all.

The boys called WH twice. Once was from the Lincoln Memorial, and I could hear DS11 telling WH that it was a little crowded in the Vibe but not too bad (remember WH had "offered" via the boys the "use" of the f**kwagon that is still half mine BTW). DS11 offered the phone to DS8 at that time, and DS8 declined.

Another time DS8 called WH at my request. DS11 was really out of sorts--near tears--for some unknown reason that I thought might have been missing dad, but he didn't want to call so I asked DS8 to do so. We had just been to the Law Enforcement Memorial and maybe it triggered something in DS11. ?? Anyway, DS8 spoke to WH and offered the phone to DS11 who declined it.

I had a hard time the first couple of days. It was really hard going on this trip...driving, seeing the scenery, talking, navigating (which was always my job)...without WH. From our dating days, we did A LOT of road trips and they have a "feel" to them. We just had a real comfortable, familiar way of enjoying those things together. (Except for the last road trip to Fla. in 2005 when the A was going strong. WH seemed to resent my presence and barely spoke to me)

I also missed WH as we experienced the monuments, especially WWII, which WH would have enjoyed. being a bit of a history buff about that war.

The boys chose a b-day present for WH at the Spy Museum...CD of Bond songs. WH's b-day is next Sunday.

I took tons of pics. I figured I would burn a CD with all the pics--minus any with me in them--for the boys to give to WH so they could share their trip with him.

I kept having these conflicting thoughts...on the one hand, OF COURSE he'll see the light and remember how much his family and what we had together (the four of us) meant to him; that three years of a twisted and wrong relationship cannot possibly overshadow 14 years of a life lived for what is good and right.

On the other hand, these feelings of dispair...that this is my lot in life...maybe not forever if I move on and find someone new...but just MISSING him. How stupid; standing there in the rest area and just SEEING him walking out of the men's room. Watching all the other fathers and sons in the pool, horsing around the way they do. Seeing other families. How he and I used to make a little contest over who would see the first dogwood, first redbud in blossom as we drive south.

At the Jefferson Memorial, there was an exhibit about the cherry trees. Everyone was provided with a little tag and a pencil, and invited to write a wish on the tag and tie it to one of the cherry trees they provided.

Both boys wished for their dad to come home. My wish was that both of their wishes come true.

Back to real life. It sure felt good to escape for a while.

I looked back at the first couple of pages, but please let me know whose threads I need to check if there have been any major developments.

Rejoice today, everyone! I'm at my mom's (stopped here on the way and will return home this afternoon) and we are preparing a ham dinner. The boys and I will go to Mass tonight.

Welcome back, Sis! I've always thought WDC would be fun. (The Dervish calls it WashingtonDeeDee.)

Back to real life, but how nice you had a break... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Happy Easter, LS.
was thinking of you at church this morning....sat next to(actually stood....very crowded mass) the cutest petite woman w/ 2 young sons....just reminded me of (how i picture) you.
kept you in my prayers. so glad to hear you enjoyed D.C.
welcome back. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Welcome back... I am glad you had a nice time... you deserve it as do your kids.
Two thoughts on your post... IMO, you should not be shopping for gifts for WH even if they are from the kids.
Second and more important... I would NOT give any pictures of the trip to WH... consequences of his actions that he was not there by his choices. I think it would be a mistake to make that CD for him. This is a memory for you and the kids.

Happy Easter LS.

MEDC

I totally agree. Do not give him a Home Fix of ANY kind. If he wanted to know what the trip was like, he shoulda been there. What does he think "divorced" really means?
Mulan

Sis,

I think you should give him nothing, including the CD.

I know the boys got him a gift on the road, which is nice of them. Be sure that your name isn't on it, and that you don't have any part in wrapping it, etc. That is their gift to dad - it is up to them to take care of it and do their "thing" with it.

It's very hard to put aside the tendency to think of him, to do the things you used to do - including getting those trinkets to share of your trips and new events in your life. If and when he comes home, there will be lots of time to talk about it - think about it as something to talk about later, something he doesn't know about the new you!!!

No home fixes - no calls to tell him how things went, no gifts, no pictures, no nothing. Your trip is yours. He abstained from the trip by choice - a bad one on his part, and he knows that. Let him feel it.

SB

Okay. You are right about the photo CD. I hadn't thought of the pics as a "home fix." Good point.

My concern was the boys wanting to share their trip with WH. I'll just forget about that. They can TELL him all they want, but he can't share it in any other way.

The gift from the kids (the Bond music CD) is something beyond Plan B if this makes sense. He is their father, they love him, and we get gifts for people we love for their birthdays. I want them to learn that lesson, because it is clear that's not a lesson they will learn from their father. He didn't even have the kids get me a card. I don't want the boys to grow up thinking that's okay.

So while we were in DC, I reminded them that dad's birthday was coming up and should keep their eyes open for something. Prior to the trip, I had assumed that I would do this for them...just like I make sure that they have a b-day present when they go to a friend's b-day party. It's just the right thing to do...it's not from me, even though I paid for the gift.

The choice of gift, etc., was all them. It was never my intent to have ANY further role in the giving, wrapping, etc. I'm just facilitating the boys doing the "right" thing.

I could care less about getting this alien a gift. He's giving himself everything he wants. He probably has all of the music on the CD downloaded anyway, but it was what the boys wanted to get for him. This is about teaching the boys how to think of someone else, choose something that has meaning, and find joy in giving...it's not about rewarding WH for living another year.

Make sense?

LilSis:

I will point this out:



That was nice of you.

And I understand that you are trying to raise two boys that will call thier mother on occasion and remember to buy little gifts for the people that are important to thier lives.

Have them buy gifts for others. Grandmas and Grandpa. Aunts and Unkles. Others that are important.

Teach's the same lesson.

Because one day in the future, the boys will bring home the gift that Dad had them buy for RT's birthday, or son, or... and can you help wrap it?

He chose this path. Let him walk it.

You may have had the boys buy something for Grandma, or others.

Just leave it to the boys to think of Dad(?). Just like he thinks of them.

Sorry about this...

(((LS)))

LG

PS:

You were always the Navigator, Huh? So is Mrs LG. She can even read a map and give directions without re-orienting the map to the direction we are driving...

LG

LS, My point about the gift is that if the kids didn't remember that his b-day was coming up, it would be a nice kick in his pants to have them forget his special day since mom is not there to coordinate those things.

Just my 2 cents.

MEDC

LS --

Your birthday was a few weeks ago and he gave you a very good roadmap of how to handle it -- do nothing.
He didn't facilitate the boys getting you anything -- even a card.

This was your opportunity to do the same.
It shows him that you won't be allies or friends if he continues on this path. In his self-centered world, it would have wounded him more (than you were) to be forgotten.

It would have left him with the impression that LS is moving on and not thinking of him anymore.
He would start to wonder what you are thinking and doing.

I agree w/ everybody on this one....WH does not deserve the consideration at this point.
but,no real harm done, LS.
from here on in just let the kids take over....they got the gift and now it is up to them to remember to wrap it and give it to their dad....not your resposibility to remind them etc.