You bet, pep. Everyone's advice is so wonderful. You all called me on it...grow up, start looking at this from MIL's POV, stop sabatoging your relationship. This is WISDOM that I needed.

My reaction to this whole issue is why I consciously DON'T GO there. The resentment is like a little seed that very rapidly grows into a huge weedy vine in a hurry if I don't nip it in the bud.

I love Marsh's very practical suggestions for HOW to have a relationship without getting myself caught up in the drama. Lord knows there's enough of that in my life right now. I don't need to conjure up any more.

I was thinking about it...Marsh's comment "Choose to believe she loves you." I do believe she loves me; that she's sincere...but my insecurity is rampant! It is so out of proportion. It is driven by fear....fear of more rejection...fear of losing another significant relationship...needing to withdraw before I am pushed away...again.

I THINK what's been going on is that I feel like MIL needs to PROVE her love for me. And on MY terms. It's an ugly feeling; sort of opposite forces acting on one another, getting nowhere, achieving nothing.

This is also patently unfair...and I am glad that you all have helped me to recognize it.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom and providing me with a way to put this all together!

Okay...one more thing on this topic and then I"M DONE!! I promise!!!

Thinking about it this morning and it occurred to me. If only MIL would ADMIT that having WH in their home is enabling the A, but that as his mother she just doesn't have it in her to kick him to the curb...I'd be comfortable with that.

The difference is that I feel like she's not being honest...either with me, with herself, with WH. She insists on seeing WH as a victim, somehow. She makes excuses for him, defends him.

I just wish--for my sake, for the sake of our relationship--that she could just honestly say that as his mother, she just can't deal with the reality. Instead, it's as if the blinders are on, and she wants to twist reality to conform to the reality that she'd prefer.

Rant over!! I feel more comfortable coming to that conclusion, actually. It sort of gets to the kernel of what's been bothering me. I can accept this with the knowledge that what really is causing my distress is that I feel as if she's not being honest with me.

And let's let it go at that.

I have a really busy day today, and intend to make the most of it. It's going to be sunny! Yay!

no, you would not be comfortable with that ~~~> then you'd say:

"How can she KNOW and ADMIT she is helping the affair and keep doing it?"

and

since when is your comfort more important than hers?


digging holes into her character does not make plan A-in-laws more likely

making HER the bad guy does not help you

she did NOT start this process

she IS doing the best she can
NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY


I just wish, for her sake, you'd stop attacking a woman who is trapped and wants to bring harm to no one


does this make you feel better about disrespecting her?


of course you do .... but it comes with a price


bullchit

she IS being honest with you
but you disagree with her decision

Can you be honest about why you need to make her smaller right now?

You feel better when you make her position wrong.

Pep

Sis:

Think about it this way..ask yourself this question..DO YOU LOVE YOUR MOTHER-IN-LAW AS A PERSON, AS ANOTHER WOMAN, OR ONLY AS THE MOTHER OF YOUR HUSBAND?

Had you ever thought how HURTFUL this may be for her DAY-TO-DAY from a personal perspective? Had you ever thought how she may STRUGGLING to take care of HERSELF? Then will come her need to take care of her OWN HUSBAND, then HER SON, then her OTHER CHILDREN and THEN YOU...

She is a STRUGGLING, too..with LOTS on her plate...

I really identify, as I said yesterday, with your MIL. Along with dealing with my H's INFIDELITY, WE were facing difficulties with our OS who was doing some BAD STUFF..some of it had to do with a girl. Would it have been LOVING to not take into account ALL that I HAD ON MY PLATE and expect me to APPROPRIATELY AND EFFECTIVELY DEAL with ALL OF THAT???? I was doing the best I could under the most difficult of circumstances....

As Pep said, WE ARE ALL ONLY HUMAN..including your MIL...

WE CAN'T BE ALL THINGS TO ALL PEOPLE...

That would be expecting PERFECTION and you know the problem with that, Sis....

LIFE IS SOOOO COMPLICATED....

I'm just starting to identify myself in that generation of women -- I have an adult son.

He's 21. And he is in a relationship I don't agree with.
I flat out do not want him to date the girl he is with.

And he knows my feelings on the subject. I still help him financially and whatnot. I suppose I could cut him off for not following my point of view, but I won't do that. I am hoping he will reach that conclusion and learn that lesson on his own.

I love him no matter what. That is what unconditional love is all about.

she disagrees with you
she states her opinion
I see no "denial" on her part


her opinion differs from yours
AS IT WILL COUNTLESS TIMES FOR THE REST OF THE TIME YOU KNOW EACH OTHER

this does not make her dishonest


again
a difference of HONEST opinions


This, again, is her HONEST opinion. If she wanted to be dishonest with you she would not have shared this with you....


YOU cannot put on her "How do I live my life?"

MIL will not rescue you
MIL will have different opinions of what is do-able in this terrible situation

if you want to be SMART here, instead of positioning yourself as her disappointed adversary .... you would invite HER to lunch ... make it a delightful time .... discuss pleasant things ONLY .... [color:"red"] and do this ASAP .... because right now .... you are positioning yourself to LOSE a valuable alliance [/color]

LS:

Pep is being tough on you here about your MIL.

Yes, your MIL is enabling the A.
Yes, MIL and FIL need to force your WH from thier home.
Yes, She is protecting her cub.

Just like you will when your time comes.

So.

Your MIL is one of the few people IRL that you can confide in. And that option is out.

Your anger at WH during Plan B is manifesting itself in your MIL. Cuz you can still talk to her.

So.

Your MIL will be involved with your Children for the rest of your life. She can help your children to grow up and to have another safe place in life.

And your MIL will have WH and even RT over to Thanksgiving dinner in the future. Not Thanksgiving 2007, or 2008, but after that.

IF WH DOES NOT CHANGE!

And you know as well, that we cannot control WH. Neither can MIL.

Sorry. LS. You deserve so much better.

However, this is the devestation that WH caused.

Leave it on him.

LG

These are big 2x4s, but you are all RIGHT. I HATE myself for what this--the A--is doing to me. This is one more unattractive reality about myself (and others?) that I am forced to confront. That we are ALL human.

Yes, I love MIL. As a person, and a unique human being, not just as WH's mom. I am being judgmental and harsh and unkind. I am not being loving or compassionate. That's not who I want to be.

Where does this come from? Is it as LG says...the underlying anger and frustration at WH that has no outlet, misdirected at MIL? Maybe, but it's no excuse.

What do I do? I feel near tears. NOT because of what anyone is saying, but because of the truth of it. It hurts to know that I am capable of it and that I've been so cruel, in both my words and my thoughts.

LG's comment about Thanksgiving didn't help, either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

It is--as Lexxy alluded to--a bit of a generational thing. My boys are still little, and I haven't had that experience of needing to accept unacceptable behavior...I can still lay down the law.

I'm feeling very down about this...but TRULY appreciate you all calling me on it. Wondering what to DO...how to BE...

So do I reach out? Apologize? Let her know honestly how I feel, ask that she forgive me, and tell her I'd like to move forward with our relationship with mutual agreement that we avoid the sticky topics? I think that's what she's been asking for...and I have been unwilling to give her that.

But I DO get what you are saying. Sorry to have dumped all of this on you in a way that you have to straighten me out.

IMO... you never need to accept that type of behavior. I can tell you that I know... KNOW... that if my son were doing this to his family, he would be welcome in my home when it stopped.... not before. I have a brother that has taken that hard line with his child and while it is hurting him to do so... he feels his principles are not dependant on the people involved. I happen to agree.

LS,

Today is a new day.

Just move forward. Call MIL and have a pleasant conversation w/ her. No need to have to define w/ her what kind of R you will have w/ her. No need to tell her you'll need to avoid "sticky subjects" w/ her.

Just reach out and ask her about HER life. Keep talk about yours at a minimum.

Have you seen any pretty curtains that you thought would look nice in her kitchen? Tell her about them. Is there a place you both like to eat at? Maybe you could tell her how much you've been wanting to go there, but that you're waiting for her to return so you can go there w/ her.

S T R E T C H

Reach for new things you can talk about.

There is so much potential here for this R, LS...so much.

Folks don't have to be perfect to love them.

They don't have to hold to the same beliefs you do to love them.

They are rich and full of untapped treasures that you will miss if you don't stretch....

Know this...everytime you judge someone harshly, you are judging yourself just as harshly.

Judgment is a two way street. What we do to others we will do to ourselves.

Work hard at stopping those DJ's, LS, inside and out.

You are loved here, not b/c of what you do, but b/c of who you are....we see sweet treasures in you. Please see them too.

~ Marsh

Marsh, I agree with this. But, I also think that some beliefs and actions should result in our limiting or stopping contact with others. I do not associate with people that drink and drive, people that abuse their spouse, people that cheat on their spouse ( I lost a friend of almost 20 years over this one)... etc. I think it is sometimes required to take a stand for our beliefs. Enabling behavior that is hurting my family would result in being excluded from my life until that behavior stopped.



To me... and maybe only to me... this seems silly. The big elephant in the room would make all of this phony for me.



Maybe this is the crux of the discussion... I believe with all my heart that we should be held accountable for what we do... that we are a collection of the things we do. People that do bad things are bad people until they stop doing them...imo. I see very few exceptions to this in life...both in my own life and the world around me.

My biggest struggle dealing with the A was anger and resentment. I still have an issue that comes up every year at this time that makes whatever anger and resentment left buried deep inside threaten to slither its way to the surface.

It's a childhood issue for me - "good girls" don't get mad. They don't make waves. They stand silently on the sidelines and accept what they are given. As a result, I have a problem even recognizing anger, let alone dealing with it.

Address your anger and resentment with your IC.

I did something about a year and a half ago (4 years past dday) that I will admit to all of you here, but not to anyone else. When I was throwing away an old phone book in my office, I tore out the page with the xOWs name on it, spit on her name, crumpled it up and threw it away. I had never spit on anything or anyone before, and I haven't since. It was a very childish way of releasing anger, but it was very cathartic.

You can look for creative ways of letting some of it out without letting other people know how you are "being bad".

Your "incident" with RT was an example of just how much anger you have stored up inside. If you don't find a way to release it, it comes out in all sorts of unhealthy ways -emotionally unhealthy, relationally unhealthy, and physically unhealthy as far as the toll it takes on you.

I hope you can find ways to deal with anger a lot sooner in your life than I did.

All in all..I agree with Marsh's idea...

I also want to point out to you that this is part of your PERSONAL RECOVERY..YOUR PERSONAL GROWTH..just think how WISE you will be when you face such issues with YOUR SONS...

I can truly say because of many of the PAINFUL LESSONS that I have learned since my H's affair..I AM A MUCH, MUCH BETTER PERSON...

I am WISENED..and less NAIVE about LIFE than others...

Now I truly can understand why my grandmother would almost laugh when I would come to her with my PETTY COMPLAINTS..

She almost prophetically would tell me: "YOU WILL GO THROUGH A LOT MORE THAN THIS IN YOUR LIFETIME"..

THIS IS A "GOOD THING", SIS...YOU ARE GROWING EXPONENTIALLY...

I LEARNED SOOO MUCH when PEP would get onto me, too...I am now a different person than I was those many moons ago...

She does it out of LOVE...

Feel BLESSED by her ADVICE..which comes for free..and is better than that of MOST COUNSELORS...

MEDC,

How will it benefit LS to cut off her R w/ her MIL?



It depends upon what the "bad things" are.

IMO, LS's MIL's behavior does not warrent being cut off from her.

~ Marsh

I'm not sure that it would benefit HER. It would benefit me as I do not find any comfort or benefit from involving myself with people that are doing things that result in harm to my family. I would find it more stressful to continue this relationship than to put a stop to it until such a time as the behaviors that are harmful to my family cease.




I don't think LS's MIL is a bad person... I think she is weak and her weakness is helping her WH harm his family. What I do believe the MIL "deserves" is for Lilsis to be angry as he!! at her for not helping her grand children and for enabling this behavior.

Just my 2 cents.

I think it would be LOVING for Sis to show compassion for her MIL...

I wanted to add that at least she shows signs of LOVING her son...

My MIL could care less about my H...

She seems to be a GOOD PERSON with a son who is DOING BAD...BEEN THERE DONE THAT...

Sis, if she LOVES her and LIKES her, should reach out to her as a PERSON..

MIL will suffer from the consequences of the choices she makes w/o LS cutting off her nose to spite her face.

~ Marsh

Maybe she is FEARFUL of losing him to RT and doesn't want him to go live there...

I can understand that FEAR from a mother's point of view...

She's probably telling herself that at least he hasn't done that yet....

Marsh... I guess that will be for LS to decide. I would feel like I was cutting off my nose to spite my face by remaining in contact with MIL... it is a matter of perspective I guess.

But Sis has said that she LOVES her MIL..

How can one just cut someone off like that?