nia...sounds like a plan.

Your suggested course of action takes me out of the equation at this point...I can't be accused of being petty or engaging in any tit for tat. There's a gift...the boys need to remember it and take it from there. I have not impeded them in any way. I did the bare minimum...I will do no more.

Yuck. What a way to live.

I'm feeling a little different today. Maybe it's coming back from my big "independent" road trip; maybe it's beginning the new initiative at work today. Just feeling a bit like my "new life" is starting. I wish I felt good about that on its own merits, but to be honest it feels a bit like I'm feeling good about it only in relation to what WH must be feeling (or SHOULD be feeling!!), i.e.; disconnected, selfish, lonely, like a loser, adolescent.

I might feel disconnected and lonely, but it's a different type. It's the "want" that Hiker is describing in his thread. I am not TRULY disconnected...I have tons of support. I am only lonely because I am lacking that intimate relationship that I THOUGHT I had.

On the other hand, I know intellectually that I am growing as a person...I just don't feel it all the time. I hate the feeling of MISSING my H all the time. This morning I realized that if he were still at home, today would have been his morning off, and he would have driven the boys and I, dropping us off (and then proceeded to go to RT's, but that was never part of my reality at the time). I MISSED that...having a back-up in the morning, having him drop me off at work...now I am SOLELY responsible every single morning.

I wish this more positive feeling would last. Grrr....that's one of my biggest frustrations...it's one step forward and two steps back. I never end up feeling like I moving ahead in any significant way.

I am also feeling more committed to the decision to end substantive contact with MIL. The more I think about it, the more I realize that that relationship has caused me additional pain. In her own kindly way, she DEFENDS WH. She makes EXCUSES for him. Clearly, she enables him, and in that way, she is a friend to the A. You all know this, and warned me, and now I'm getting there in my own way.

Kind of like I needed some clarity on that for myself. My own fog needed to clear.

My Monday ramblings....

lilsis

i MISS my h everyday

his companionship and his love

so i understand

Sis,

WSs *always* live in the fantasy that once you're divorced and the dust settles, you will all be good friends and be supportive of each other and still send gifts and stay in contact and get together now and then. In other words, they fully expect to be one big happy family with things pretty much as they were except that they get to sleep with somebody else and gee that's the only real difference.

Your Plan B is meant to give him a great big boot to his wayward head about what divorce is REALLY like.

There ain't no more family of any kind. There ain't no "being friends", not for one instant. There ain't no more birthdays together or holidays together or walks in the park together or scrubbing the toilet together. There ain't no ANYTHING together.

The more you can bust down this fantasy, the better the chance of your Plan B having an effect on his "fog". Yes, I know that the purpose of Plan B is to protect the BS, but as long as there is some desire left on the part of the BS to re-establish the marriage you might as well do the toughest Plan B you can.

If it doesn't work on the WS, well, then, it doesn't work.

But at least the BS will know he/she tried everything and did at least get some peace for themselves.

Plan B *should* be painful to him, LilSis. WS pain is your best friend right now. Make sure he gets all you can manage and don't you dare cushion him in the slightest.

Again: He's the one who wanted to kick YOU to the curb - so do your very best to show him what that REALLY means, not what he *thinks* it means.
Mulan

Mulan:
I think that *I* am doing a pretty good job of it. I have been cold as the artic and dark as a black hole. The gift thing is settled...if the boys remember, well, fine. If they don't (which is a real possibility given the fact that they are still pretty flakey at 8 and 11), then there the gift will sit, gathering dust.

What REALLY irks me is that ILs won't do the same. That they are weak and SOOOO conflict avoidant that they will enable the A just to NOT have to make the tough call or make the difficult choice or take a strong stand for their grandchildren.

"Oh, baby boy...you just left your wife and kids so that you could take up with a married woman? Isn't that too bad. Well, feel free to stay here for as long as you want, rent-free. All we expect is that you know that we are disappointed in you. That's it! End of consequences. We sure hope that knowledge isn't too much for you to bear, because we wouldn't want you to be hurt. We love you unconditionally, you see, and that means you can do whatever you want without fear of repercussions from us."

UGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!

If I go on too much with this, Mulan, I will begin to feel very, very angry, frustrated, upset and sad...and since there is NOTHING I can do about it, I can't afford to let myself go there.

Hey cheerleaders!! (hey what?) Give me some validation! (okay!) Cause I'm doin' good, and I know it...but you know me...I need those atta girls.

I have been pitch black dark dark dark...I have not seen nor heard nor emailed nor VM nor TM nor ANYTHING since PBL. I have not WAIVERED even a teeny, tiny bit. I took a trip. I am going to go gray (if not black) with MIL. I am being a great mom, my boys can COUNT on me. I am living my life, finding my strength and finding joy and consciously living in the present! The b-day gift from the kids thing was a little sticky...but those sorts of things are going to crop up from time to time and need to be dealt with and figured out.

I am giving him all the taste of a D that *I* can give him. Right??

Gimme an L! Gimme an S!

Hi LilSis,

My IL's are harboring not one, but two children with problems keeping their hands off other people’s zippers. DS40 (divorced, stupid and penniless due to an ongoing A with a MOW) and DD45 (Wayzilla). They are staying rent free too. Good old Infidel Hotel.

“I am just so happy they have a safe place to stay!” – MIL

At night I dream of General Schwarzkopf standing at the podium with a grainy green image of an F16’s laser guided missile crosshairs locked onto Infidel Hotel narrating its imminent destruction. Get the popcorn!

Welcome back, LilSis!

L! S! Sis-boom-bah!

2 quick things -
1. I caught part of the movie "The Parent Trap" the other day and thought about what lengths kids will go to in order to keep their parents together. The whole "Dad will take the rats" thing might have been DS11's way of trying to initiate some interaction between the 2 of you. I would expect that kind of thing to come up more often as your plan B continues.

2. I was cleaning out some things and found this. I like to use it sometimes as an alternative to the traditional version:

Psalm 23
You, Lord, are my sheperd.
I will never be in need.
You let me rest in fields of green grass.
You lead me to streams of peaceful water, and you refresh my life.
You are true to your name, and you lead me along the right paths.
I may walk through valleys as dark as death, but I won't be afraid.
You are with me, and your sheperd's rod makes me feel safe.
You treat me to a feast, while my enemies watch.
You honor me as your guest, and you fill my cup until it overflows.
Your kindness and love will always be with me each day of my life,
and I will live forever in your house, Lord.

But ya know, they really haven't had to live the day-to-day yet with THAT going on. Didn't you say that MIL took off early on and then FIL joined her later. They haven't been around much to appreciate the full ramifications of what darling son is doing to his family. Wait till they hear it from the lips of one of their precious grandsons... "I want my daddy back." Speaking as a grandmother... this is gonna hurt big time.

Sis, you ARE doing great. I also don't think that WH has had a chance to appreciate the full implications of what you are doing yet since Plan B started. He went on his trip, you went on yours. FIL and MIL out of town. It hasn't caught up to him yet.

Goooooo Sissssss!

Gooooooo Sis! You ARE doing a wonderful job with your life. You are being a strong, vigilent, protective momma Bear. You ventured out into the world alone with your two boys and added smiles to their lifetime. You are Aces with me.

You have worked MB to a TEE. I am very proud of you. Smile and pat yourself on the back, or give yourself one of those little nudges on the chin, for you deserve it. You are doing so well. Look at your pictures from the trip, let yourself be immersed in the memories and happiness that you created. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and sorry that we didn't offer up better, warmer weather.

Just for a while -- try blowing up the pics from your trip and replace the family history wall.
Take down any pics of WH and his family (even your family) -- and put a TRIP PICTURE in each and every one of those frames. Just cover them up for now.

Your boys will LOVE IT!

STOP it

You may be in recovery someday .... keep your relationship with ILs as clean as possible for now

AVOID building resentments

ASSUME they are doing the best they can as flawed human beings who are in a very conflicting position

They do not want to piss you off because you have the power to cut them off from their grandsons ...

They don't want to piss off their son because he could also do the same ...

Have some compassion for them ... they are trying to remain as neutral as possible about a problem they did not create ... they don't know what to do about it .... and they are probably petrified .... and they are going to fail SOMEONE no matter what they do ....

Just let them be for now .... and do not expect them to do things your way ....

call only when you can be lighthearted and friendly and NEVER discuss your feelings/problems/plans ~~~> with them

Put them into the friendly-but-not-intimate category of interpersonal interactions

you have NO NEED to dismantle their character .... You cannot validate yourself doing that.

Just stop.

This resentment will come back to bite you in the butt once you are in recovery ....

Please.... stop expectations that they will help you solve this ....

Meet their needs as much as you can .... like a plan A for in-laws .... be the better choice for a daughter-in-law

Be the person they enjoy interacting with .... can you do that?

Pep

Thank you for that post, Pep. I needed it, too.

Thanks for calling me on this, pep.

That's why I said in my response to Mulan that I can't go here...I have to consciously STOP myself from thinking about it because it feeds the resentment BIG TIME.

Help me with this? I can ACT like a semi-Plan A, but the true feelings...

I don't know WHO I can be with them....I do know that need to back off, and I am comfortable with that now. I need to protect myself; I recognize now that my interactions with MIL have been more painful than I realized. She defends WH and makes excuses for his behavior...it is incomprehensible to me and incredibly frustrating. I didn't realize how subtly she was doing this until after our last conversation, when the comments became almost overt. Maybe she was finally being honest with me.

So the future...I don't know. Even if she and I don't talk about WH, he is the elephant in the room...do you know what I mean? I'll have to deal with the resentment either way...because I DO feel resentment. I try to be compassionate about it, but I don't feel like I can have a "relationship" when she defends him. I can't TRUST that, and I don't know how to have a relationship without trust, or worse, wondering when the knife will be inserted in my back.

Maybe I'm too black and white? too all or nothing? which is unfair...?

Friendly but not intimate. That is a really good way of putting it, but I don't know how to get to that...MIL and I have been SO close, it's like backing off about 10 notches.

I have been DJing them....and irritated at myself for doing so. And I have been getting to the place where I expect them to help me solve this...IN SPITE of what they say. More comfortable with doing what I can control and letting the rest go.

It's the pain, I think...feeling like another betrayal...hypersensitive to that I guess.

Subjects to talk about w/ ILs...

Anything and everything except WH.

Talk about their grandsons. Brag about them to your heart's content.

Ask about their lives.

Their health.

When asked how you are doing, reply,"As well as is expected, thank you for asking." And then change the subject.

Keep away from heart to heart talks for now.

Limit the length of your phone calls...always have to be going some where.

You can do this.

~ Marsh

PS: Oh, and don't wait for her to call you...you call her. Keep this R healthy...you still want her in your corner.

And yes, all or nothing is unfair.

It's also not in your best interest to have nothing w/ her.

~ Marsh

I share your pain and frustration, LS. In my case, they don't live here, so I don't have to interact with them. I haven't been talking with them lately, so I don't really know what they're doing, but if it turns out to be the "nothing" I assume it is, I can't see having any kind of relationship with them in the future. I have no use for them. They will be dead to me. I'm not giving up much--I didn't like them much to begin with, and I'm sorry that my kids are stuck with them as grandparents.

The last time I saw my ILs (after I had poured out my soul) and they were leaving, they said "You're still our son." My thought: Yeah...you wish.

I think you're getting good advice on how to deal with your MIL, since that is a friendship you will want to retain if you can. I just wanted to let you know I share your frustration. And, um, anger.

Choose to believe that she DOES love you.

Choose to believe that she does want your WH to come back to you.

Stop looking for proof for this.

Just believe it's true and act from those beliefs.

Act from love.

And remember you are in Plan B, so that does mean you shouldn't be talking about WH w/ her anyway....as she may slip you subtle info about him.

Sooooooo, don't bring him up in conversations w/ her. And change the subject if she brings him up.

You can do this.

~ Marsh

LS, I'll repeat what I said before. Your MIL has done very much better than most. It's not reasonable to expect more.

Also, don't make assumptions about her views and what she ought to be doing. There's a lot she knows that you probably don't - about the fault-lines in the family, the areas of weakness or coercion that she nurses guilt about, the twists in the path that her son took to adulthood. She may have more sympathy for his failure than she wants to admit to you.

You also can't be sure how she really feels about your marriage. Parents often keep their mouths shut about their children's relationships, even when they have strong reservations. There may be many things she feels unable to say to you straight out, for fear of hurting you.

All in all, she seems to have tried very hard to be impartial and loving - much more so than your own mother. Yet you expect so much of her, to the extent of feeling resentful that she is not fulfilling all your expectations of her. Why do you expect so much?

Because, LS, there is no point looking around for an Attending Adult to 'fix' this mess for you. You are the adult, the mess is yours to deal with, yours is the responsibility to grow up and find a way through. There is no-one who can rescue you from this. Yes, it sucks and it's painful..but that's life.

You are a big girl now.

TA

There are such WISE, CARING people HERE...

Being the mother of two adult sons with GFs, I fully understand your MIL's dilemma and you probably will, too, one day SIS...

Marsh is giving you the best of the best .... wrap your arms around her words Sis ... when you do this, you become GRACE-FILLED

thank you for accepting my post as well-intended

(((( hugs ))))

Pep

Sis, you are amazing. This stuff is tough, and you take the advise here so well.

It would be nice just to talk about the kids and the weather for once, dontcha think.

I have been harboring my own resentment for, what I thought were my friends. Mostly WH's friends, but they are all involved in his life. I don't know how many of them have gone out with WH and OW, but I know of one couple who have, and it kills me. Hey, they aren't married to him, I am. As WH told me, they are HIS friends, so why do I think they would be concerned for me.

I'm not saying that your IL's aren't concerned, but Marsh is right, they are in a very awkward position. As a mother, I know that I would not approve of my DS cheating on or leaving his wife. I would be sure that he knew my disapproval, and I would not harbor him either in his delusion or physically. However, I would still love him, and know that he is lost. I would try to help however possible. I would also still love my grandchildren and want to be a part of their lives.

This is tough stuff, Sis, but I know that you can perservere.