Lexxy,

"WH knows LS planned a vacation for those dates. So he deliberately scheduled his at the same time. Planning that LS won't let him have the boys, because he is taking a vacation with RT. But stating he wants the boys because he knows he can't have them -- and is therefore "off the hook" for being a bad dad and not spending his vacation time with his family."



That is the very first possibility I had thought of!

SB

LS-
I think that I would let him have the boys that week. For two reasons. One, that he really says that he has something planned, two, that it was just verbally agreed upon, and unless it is writing, it can be a mistake (honestly). Or, if he always takes vacation in that month, he may have thought that it was no big deal.

And, if you do let him take the kids that week, to a place that they will have fun, and be with their dad, it will make you look better in the long run. Especially since you do not have anything set in stone. And, it will be a good lesson that you both learn... that these things are now put in writing. I think that especially since he is prone to acting like you are difficult to deal with, (in HIS opinion) he will not have a leg to stand on if you graciously let him have the boys that week. You will no longer be looked at as being so 'difficult'.

And who knows, maybe he will start missing being with his family if he gets to spend that time with them....

Sadmo

SD: Yes, the intermediary job is a thankless one, so I will not complain that LK didn't do things exactly the way I would have. She certainly has my best interests at heart. No harm done, I don't think.

SB: We will know, won't we, if he takes the news from LK without complaining or whining or putting up a fuss.

He should get the email tonight when he gets home from work...oh, which is NOW...hmmmm...but LK sent it from her work email, so if he replies to it, I won't hear until tomorrow.

Unless he's REALLY mad; mad enough to call LK. Not counting on it.

BTW...even if Lex's scenario is correct, he still looks like a complete a$$, because any truly CARING parent would just select a different week.

Also...I talked to my IC about this today. I was describing how I felt that WH is operating in this totally separate universe where the rules of decency and consideration just don't apply...even to his own kids. WH is so completely CLUELESS about what they want or need or what they might be feeling.

IC was pressing me to identify times in our past when WH seemed less "in tune" with me or the boys or others emotionally. He contends that personality is consistent; that there must have been elements of this "emotioal absence" in WH's personality previously.

It just wasn't working for me. I didn't see it...sure, there were times that he was clueless in the "guy" way...probably not meeting my need for conversation, etc...but not anything REMOTELY close to this level of total disregard for the feelings of others...even to the point of cruelty.

I think my IC is just looking for a way for me to put WH's selfish and hurtful behavior in some sort of context. I don't think it can be...like I said, it wasn't working for me. I think WH has just lost his marbles.

You might want to give your C a copy of SAA or recommend for him to read it. That's what I did and it was VERY HELPFUL..He became supportive of the MB view of my WH..most of my therapy time, though, was spent on me...

Sadmo:
I see where you are coming from, but I really, really think he's just yanking my chain. I had no problem with June...even though apparently he also planned that far in advance of checking with me. ( I heard about it four weeks ago from SIL)

That just isn't how it works.

I TOLD him I planned on the boys that week; in writing or not, it really doesn't matter; I was clear. Once the D goes through, does he think he can just annouce that he'll take the boys on X and Y dates? No, he can't. It doesn't work that way. These are things we AGREE upon and NEGOTIATE.

I have been as gracious as I need to be by offering him the opportunity to propose another week.

To be clear...he didn't indicate anything about having specific plans...just that he was looking forward to spending time with the boys.

If he has a super spectacular something planned...and he REALLY wants to do it...then he can explain the situation to LK and I can consider it from there. I won't be unreasonable...but I'm not going to just cave just because he raises his little finger.

He doesn't get to make the rules anymore. I accomodated him for June without complaint; he has no right to expect me to ALSO rearrange whatever plans I may have just to accomodate him in August as well.

This is boundary setting.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

sho'nuff

thank your friend for my latest sig line

I love it !

Too many therapists don't understand how infidelity works. Our MC certainly didn't. I suspect my WW's IC didn't, and my own IC (for whom I have a great deal of respect) tells me she has learned so much from me.

When I started putting faith in MB early on, WW told me her IC said that she had never heard of MB or the Harleys. MC also said that she had never heard of it.

Like Mimi says, work on you with your IC. That is hard under these circumstances, though, so you might want to think about getting a new IC.

Sounds like your counselor missed on that one.

It is completely possible for a WS to behave COMPLETELY out of character during the affair. And that same person will be MORTIFIED at themselves later.

Are you doing any more Plan A of friends and family??
Cookies for Uncle P? Winning DIL of the year award??
Make it completely unbearable and impossible for RT to come into that family environment.....

AMEN

LS-
I did not realize about the June incident... you are correct then that you are setting your boundaries. I thought it had just kind of been mentioned that you were going to take them... So I do agree with you then.

I feel for you, I know what it is like to have someone just 'pull the rug out' from under you and expect you to be fine.

Sadmo

Hey, guess what everyone? WH REALLY IS a conniving ba$[censored]!!

MIL called tonight, and we had a nice conversation about DC, and reflected a bit on our previous argument...really coming to terms. Towards the end, I told her I just wanted to give her a head's up...that LK had gotten an email about August and had responded to WH earlier in the day. I didn't want her to be sand-bagged...and I wanted to provide an explanation.

She already knew all about it...WH had called MIL this afternoon to tell her that HE had rented the cottage for the first week in August. (MIL told me that WH has already replied with this to LK...who leaves school at about 3 so she clearly hasn't gotten it yet.)

According to WH, cottage lady "called him" when I didn't send in my reservation and she wanted to "check and make sure" that he didn't want the week.

Huh. That's weird.

Because when she wanted to ask in Nov. about switching weeks, she called the HOME number. And because when she sent the postcard reminder, it came to he HOME address.

Funny how when I didn't send in my reservation immediately (that I had told her in Nov. that I still intended to keep) that she didn't call ME at the HOME number to see if maybe--who knows?--my check got lost.

No...interestingly, she suddenly decided to call...WH's cell! Of course! That would be the OBVIOUS thing for cottage lady to do. Why would she call the number that she called in Nov. and speak to the person (me) who indicated then that she INTENDED to rent it?

Puuuleeze. I don't even know that she has WH's cell. We've been going there since before the days of cell phones.

At first MIL argued that "she heard nothing in his voice" that would indicate that WH wasn't being totally honest. "No, no, no, LS...he wouldn't do that."

But I respectfully and tearfully laid it all out there for her. All the circumstantial evidence points to one thing.

He's a liar.

Even if what he said is TRUE, then cottage lady would have called him sometime between Feb. 2 and 5...long before I went dark...in the golden days of Plan A. The DECENT thing for WH to have done at that time would to have been to tell me, or check with me...because I had just a month earlier told him that I wanted to go to the cottage with the boys this year.

That would have been the DECENT thing.

(As would NOT flaunting his mistress in my face around the corner. As would calling his kids more than twice when he's gone for three weeks. As would returning their phone calls. As would checking with me prior to making vacation plans.)

MIL said she couldn't argue with that...and she admitted she has some real soul searching to do. I think even MIL might see through this one.

I asked how she would feel if I called cottage lady and got the real story. She said if I could confirm that WH had lied to her (MIL) about how this all went down, she would absolutely want to know; no question.

Just so you all know...this did not devolve into an argument. I was sobbing through most of it, continually telling her that I understand that she doesn't want to see her son in a negative light and I neither do I! But this man that we see NOW is not her son, and that her son would never behave in this way.

I also explained how for ME, one of the reasons I had to go dark is that his WORDS and his ACTIONS were so contradictory. That he SOUNDS so convincing and so sincere...but he BEHAVES in a way that is reprehensible. Living with those opposites was just too painful, but I had to finally come to terms with the TRUTH that his words are meaningless. Because she only has to hear his words, and doesn't live with the reality of his behavior, it is easier to be taken in...very easy...WH is very, very convincing.

I really wanted her to understand that I am NOT "fighting" H, I am fighting WH. To me, they are two separate people...I wanted her to be very clear that when I speak harshly, it is about this man who is NOW, not who I knew before, and not who I hope to know in the future.

Just before we hung up (with ILYs, etc.), I asked her about the IC stuff I mentioned earlier. She's known WH longer than me. Does she believe that what we see now is the real WH, or is it an abberetion? Because I believe that it is an abberetion.

She agreed.

*****

I know you guys have been advising me to not talk about any serious stuff, but this one honestly just jumped out. I didn't feel like it would be fair or sincere if I didn't tell her that WH asked about August and I turned him down. I just wanted to be honest with her about it. I had no idea it would go anywhere beyond that; never thought that she would already be in the loop.

We did have a nice early conversation, and even through the ugly stuff, I kept apologizing to her for saying bad things about her son...but they are just facts...my reality...my observations of his behavior. I truly believe that she gets that, and doesn't hold it against me.

She talked again about how her life is ruined by this. She's so heartbroken...

I am going to send her a note tomorrow, just telling her how much I love her and thanking her for letting me cry on her shoulder.

Tomorrow is going to be a crappy, crappy day. Umbrellas up, everyone.

Sigh.

good morning, LS.
sorry to hear about the developments....I agree w/ you...he really IS a coniving ba$[censored]!!

atleast you know for sure that he did rent the cottage.... your instincts were correct.

again...i am sorry for your pain.

I certainly understand that knowing this makes you feel AWFUL, Sis..

But I want to REMIND you..that your WH is NO DIFFERENT than any other WS...

I still hear this piece of you wanting to make him into being a SPECIAL EXAMPLE...even your IC played into this...

Like Steve Harley told me, if the behavior is DIFFERENT than prior to the A, then it is DUE TO THE ADDICTION...I tried to give my H all sorts of diagnoses and personality disturbances....

HE'S ADDICTED..like crack addicts..that steal money from their parents and even SHOOT and KILL their parents...

That's one of the major points of PLAN B..to guard your love for the WS by not becoming knowledgable of their EVIL DEEDS...

I'm sure that my H did as many or more CONNIVING things as your H..or take a look at Meggy's H....

Nothing is DIFFERENT..you just know about something else that you probably should have been kept in the DARK about...

onward with PLAN B and LET THIS GO....

Get on with it ..to the place where you were at the end of the day yesterday...

ALL OF THIS IS STANDARD WS..nothing new..nothing different...

Ditto to what Mimi said.

LS - you can choose to have a crappy day and hand over your power to your husband.

Or you can choose to LIVE today well.

You need to stop discussing your H with your MIL simply because it is BAD for you and dragging YOU out of plan B.

What totally awesome vacation are YOU taking YOUR children on this summer?

Hi everyone.

I'm actually better this morning. My post last night was at 12:30 and I wasn't feeling well (still don't) and had just gotten the news. I still was feeling a bit down this morning, but not really as bad as I thought I would. My emotional reaction has moderated.

I guess I was a bit prepared for the monkey crap! I knew it would be coming. The worst part was just finding out FOR SURE that WH is in fact a conniving ba$[censored]. What he did was REALLY underhanded...and I wasn't quite sure he would stoop that low. Part of me hoped he was just so clueless and wrapped up in himself that it just escaped his memory.

Nope. Now I know...he'll stoop as low as he can go! He'll go to any lengths to get what he wants, lie and manipulat to his hearts content. No stopping that! It's kind of a relief, actually....this one is pretty obvious to anyone so it's less likely that he'll be able to "spin" it.

I truly DON'T think he's any different or special...and maybe I didn't make it clear that I don't buy the whole IC thing? I don't know if I said that or not without looking back, but I really disagree with what he was saying. I do not think that WH's present behavior is an indicator of his true personality...it's just like all of you have described. Totally to script, right down the line.

I had a quick but helpful chat with my sister this morning; stating much of what you are all saying.

She was very matter of fact. "So what? This changes nothing. You had clearly expressed to him that you intended to have the kids that week. End of story. He should absolutely without question offer you the cottage, which of course you will pay for. Too bad if he already has the time off. He has no right to make decisions about time he will spend with the kids without checking with you first."

She said she was going to call him and tell him this (she was pi$$ed, and she rarely gets mad). I told her that I wanted to wait and hear from LK exactly what the reply says.

Just to get away, I may go visit her tonight/tomorrow as she is off work and my mom is out of town, so it can be just the two of us and her daughter, who will have a friend over.

I'll keep you all posted when I hear from LK.

REACTIONS PLEASE! Schoolbus, where are you?

Nine weeks is an adequate notification time between reasonable parties. And considerate. Where was any discussion with me regarding Spring Break? I heard it from you. On March 26th. I spoke to SIL as a preliminary plan prior to signing up for vacation. I informed you to tell LS as soon as was reasonably possible after the vacation time was secured. I told you before I told the boys the vacation was set. LS works through that time in June. I knew there would be no conflict.

Those are the only vacations I have planned and can get. She knows how it works for me at the PD with seniority. It will be hard for her to hear but I am keeping that August week at the cottage. It would have slipped away last year but I kept that week for the sake of the boys. I would like it to be the same this year.

LK, I would love to "work together" for the sake of the boys. It is LS that imposed restraints upon that process. For her sake I will agree to continuing to communicate for the time being in this manner. Please don't accuse me of not being considerate and working together.

I hope all is well with you.

WH

Here we go again with ACCEPTANCE...



GIVE UP THE HOPE!!

IT IS WHAT IT IS!! HE IS WHO HE IS!!

A WH IS BY NATURE A CONNIVING YOU KNOW WHAT!! HE WILL LIE, HE WILL CHEAT, HE WILL STEAL, HE WILL ABANDON HIS WIFE AND FAMILY, HE WILL LIE TO HIS MOTHER AND FATHER, ALL THAT MATTERS TO HIM IS MAINTENANCE OF HIS DRUG DOSE!!!

ACCEPT THIS and MOVE ON WITH TRYING TO MAKE THE MOST OF YOUR OWN LIFE...

THIS IS NOT THE WORST OF WHAT HE HAS DONE OR MAY DO IN THE FUTURE!!!

You are in PLAN B to PROTECT YOURSELF FROM THIS HIDEOUS MONSTER WHO USED TO BE YOUR HUSBAND!!

OK. I just read this and LOL...

Somebody doesn't like PLAN B..Nanny nanny boo hoo or is it boo boo... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I think you should IGNORE HIM because he's trying to incite you..

IGNORING HIM will gain his respect.

Just say FINE about him going to the cottage and plan your own vacation.

That's my opinion.

So you don't fall into his trap of getting you to FIGHT WITH HIM so that he can continue to JUSTIFY THE AFFAIR TO HIMSELF...

This is why the response should have just said that you are sticking with your prior verbal agreement on the vacation in August. Anytime you get too wordy, it gives them more ammo.

{{lilsis}}

Bright side: He obviously looks back on those times at the cottage as wonderful memories that he wants to continue with. He is missing those family times. Proof positive. This is all working on him.

So his history revisions don't hold water. If everything sucked before, he would be changing those traditions and doing something totally different and new.

So handle this situation with your usual class and dignity.