Oh so complicated, I know...

Cause then there are folks like me...

Encouraging you to refer back to the MBer's approach...

Encouraging you to take a look at what it is about YOURSELF that made YOUR MARRIAGE vulnerable to an AFFAIR...because that's what PLAN A WAS about..demonstrating your changes as you began to change..REMEMBER????

Encouraging you to take a look at what it is about YOU that needs to change...

Encouraging you for your OWN SAKE to take a good hard look at YOURSELF and what you are doing..for this or other relationships..for improvements in yourself as a PERSON...as a mother even..OH, HOW I HAVE LEARNED NOT TO TRY TO CONTROL THE LIVES AND RELATIONSHIPS OF MY OWN ADULT CHILDREN...

And now in PLAN B..encouraging you to DETACH AND TO STAY DARK..for the reasons so well stated by SB...

Mind you, this is just my opinion...

I think that you are communicating with him too much, even through LK.

It reminds me of high school....when you don't "speak" to someone, but you have someone do it for you.

Tell him ...I said this.

Tell him...I said that.

Communication is communication, no matter the vehicle or mode.

Stop with ALL communication unless it is an emergency...that being danger or loss of blood.

This entire cottage thing could have waited...if not been let go altogether. You are going through a marriage crisis right now...not a cottage crisis.

Line up the priorities...if, for some reason, you cannot go on holiday this summer...so what.. it is not the end of the world ya know.

Emergency ONLY.

Again...jmho

committed

Angree with CALI.

Think intermediary is dialoguing too much.

Should be a big, frustratingly impersonal filter NOT a source of LS feedback or discussion.

I think of it this way.

Say WS is yelling and screaming or rationalizing and excusing...making all of his best points and lowest blows..and rather than engaging he is TOTALLY DISMISSED by intermed with nothing but what basically boils down to a receipt which completely ignors his attempts and only gives him his change.

Nope..this day won't work..try again...85cents your change..thank you for shopping come again.

i agree w/ committed.
i really do think more distance and less communication is needed for your plan B.

I completely understand how you got sucked into the drama.....jeez, i got sucked in.

have you considered calling the Harleys? to help guide you?

Committed:
Just to clarify, there have been exactly three communications with WH through LK in the past six weeks.

One was in response to his early-on "Have LS check the electric bill, how stupid that LS has you acting as a go-between, wink wink" email. Response: This in unnecessary info to communicate to LS; pertinent issues only.

Two was a notification to him about DC and another scheduling change (drop off at 8:30 instead of 8:00, so no big deal).

Three was the response the email dictating his vacation. The intended response was two sentences; (June is fine; you and LS already had an agreement that LS would have the kids in August). No emotion...instead LK added to it without my knowledge.

With two young kids, communicating about their schedules is a necessity; even with a very clear schedule (which we have), there are going to be things that come up.

I ABSOLUTELY agree that it is likely that MIL has revealed the spirit of conversations between she and I...even though she has vowed confidentiality. Breaking Plan B indirectly.

So in that case, you are right...TOO much communication, but other than that, it has been very minimal.

NO
It is you stating what the facts are
as in:

"I spoke up for that date months ago."

as a FACT


"I thought I could go to a middle ground" ....by CONVINCING MIL to see things your way

instead of going through Plan B channels

this is what is wrong with your strategy ~~~>TRYING TO CONVINCE SOMEONE ELSE TO SEE THINGS [color:"red"]The Right[/color] way


sticking to YOUR plan
sticking to YOUR strategy of darkness and silence
sticking to your plan of being THE GOOD CHOICE

is not accomplished by trying to (yet again) persuade others of your RIGHTNESS


then do so .... what is your plan?


STOP that !

no one's opinion of you matters

What you did was this ~~~> hurt your position
not fatally
no one is "offended" ... STOP with that distracting counter-offense tactic ...

JUST STOP IT
I don't buy it
and it is not useful to you


counter-offense is part of what you did with your MIL

did not work with her
will not work FOR you


it is NOT "self-rightous" to shoot one's self in the foot .... so , NO, you were not being "self-rightous"


no hunny

[color:"red"]ANXIETY [/color] was what got you where you are .... you control others to relieve anxiety

fear makes us run & hide ... anxiety makes us start shooting wildly


let's stop trying

let's just do it

Pep

In all honesty, ANY communication with his mother is communication with him. It's just going through a "party-line" instead of the direct connection.

Stop engaging HIS family...their loyalties lie with him and you are well aware of that.

They are going to tell him everything that you have said, and more than likely, that is exactly what you want them to do....

afterall, it might finally click with him and he will stop his craziness (that's your reasoning).

committed

yep

a sort of Plan A by proxy would be possible

Plan A meaning ~~~> NO relationship/adultery/woe-is-me discussions

light and fluffy
no problems

send them soup
cookies
photos

NOTHING about your strategy
NOTHING about your feelings
NOTHING about your pain
NOTHING about what you think they are doing wrong
and
absolutely NOTHING about WH

this is Sis ~~~> the model DIL

You are right, pep...and nia said it the other day, too...anxiety. It has been high and I REact, need to DO, need to FIX so that the anxiety lessens.

I wanted so badly to have MIL in my corner. Trying to PULL her into my corner. It can't be done, anymore than it can be done with WH.

It hurts, though. It was probably a bad choice to go to the grave yesterday, reminding me of that loss, then the "loss" of MIL and the "loss" of the cottage and that tradition, and the "loss" of the boys for the weekend.

Maybe deep down I knew it would be a bad weekend and that's why I invited myself to my sister's.

Who was it earlier who said that it's important to just decide that WH is a ba$[censored] and that's the way it is. Accept that's who he will be and that that's what I have to deal with...forever. It would be so much easier if it were just me.

Of course you all know what makes this hardest. The boys. This man, who is their father and who has every right to be with them, represents so much of what I abhor....in terms of his values, his priorities, his behaviors, and as a role model.

My H was SOO different. He was so admirable, so honorable, such a good example. And instead of THAT, my poor kids get stuck with....this. They deserve so much more.

I think that's driving a lot of my anxiety. When WH was gone to AZ, and then we were gone to DC...he wasn't a part of their lives. I escaped him...I "protected" the kids from him.

But the cottage thing represents a time when I cannot protect them, as well as the loss of a tradition that I ALWAYS wanted to give the boys.

My family was not "rooted" as SL says...moved a couple of times when I was a kid...no extended family anywhere close; never had those relationships. No traditions except for pizza on Saturday nights.

I LOVED that the boys got to have a tradition of going to the same cottage every year; that we'd do the same things every year; that we'd eat the same foods every year...

I can't give that to them anymore, except by allowing this stranger to give it to them. And maybe RT.

ouch ouch ouch

Feeling pretty lost and empty today. Sorry for myself.

Why have you lost sight of MARRIAGEBUILDING?

This is not your H..this is your WH..and he will not NECESSARILY stay this way FOREVER.

MEDC says to stop talking about ME.

But I can provide HOPE that your WH will not necessarily stay this way FOREVER.

For ME, yes ME, the only way that I could do PLAN B was with THE HOPE that it would bring my H back..and it DID...

That's why I have been encouraging you to really DO PLAN B...

I was encouraged by folks here to DO PLAN B...

When I fell off the horse and I did many times, I got back on..with my goal being..TO RECOVER MY MARRIAGE..for my H to return...

And I was able to do it when I got to the place of DETACHMENT..pretending my H no longer existed..LETTING HIM GO..turning it all over to GOD..realizing that I was POWERLESS over over my H and over ending the affair...

She IS in your corner, as much as she CAN be. You are pulling her out of your corner by your behavior.



Maybe I'm not seeing something here, but can't you do the cottage every year? Maybe not the same week every year, but maybe every summer?

I was just thinking something similar.

"You can win this fight, or you can try to save the marriage".

I think this communication through LK is too much. All you need is the facts. Have her edit out all the other stuff. You do not need to be analyzing and trying to figure out what is going on in his head. It will drive you nuts, which is where you are right now.

Relax....let it go. GO DARK.

I thought your post about the things you have learned was great.

It's hard, because you ARE right, and his mother SHOULD be able to see what her son is doing to himself and her grandchildren. But she can't, of course, just as much as he can't see it, either. And, as others have said, being right doesn't make the situation any better.

Try these out:

--I can't fix this

--This is not my fault

--I'm not going to think in terms of wins and losses, because I only want to win the war

I saw where this was headed yesterday and wanted to send you my brother's words again but didn't have time to type them in. Do you remember them?

Hang in there, LS. This is almost certainly the hardest thing you will ever do.

(((LilSis)))

That, too. LK isn't doing you any favors by passing along WH's words unfiltered--she should remove the triggering content. That's the point of the intermediary. In my situation, WW doesn't even know the content is being filtered. It's not easy to get it right, but I think you should tinker with your intermediary situation a bit.

LS:

Wanted to point something out....



Through all of this there were two possible results.

A recovered marriage, or Divorce.

If you get to a recovered M, then all this drama of cottage or not/MIL time/etc will fade into the past.

If you divorce, then everything can become a drama like this and you will spend the rest of your life spinning.

So start listening to Mimi.

DO PLAN B.

Don't look for opportunities to punish WH. Because he doesn't have the morals, so he will always win.

Decide that during this time of Plan B, is what the rest of your life might be like. And it ain't pretty. So, work the Plan.

And decide that the future will be different.

And in spite of all the promises of WH, all those dreams you had about spending times together? Blown up by WH. His choice. Will he co-opt some? Yes. But decide on YOUR FUTURE. Not WH's.

I commended you for giving up that week at the cottage. I understand what it represents. And it's another thing that WH is spitting on.

Decide on YOUR FUTURE.

Your Future is going to be working with this WH and your boys. And I predict that his interest in the Boys will wane not long after the divorce is final. Tragic. But the choice that HE is making.

Your WH is garden variety, nothing special about him. Personally, I think you are still going to get him back. Don't know if you want him back at that point, but I still think he will come back. And if you thought Plan B was hard, wait til he comes back.

Sorry LilSis. I really want this to work out for you. But until WH pulls his head out, you make plans for YOUR FUTURE.

(((LS)))

The intermediary issue was one that I need to clarify. ABSOLUTELY it needs to be filtered more. I know that I am very easily triggered, and LK is not that way personally, so she wouldn't recognize things that are potential triggers.

Maybe my sister...

Help me here...I am hearing that there's been waaaay too much communication between WH and LK...but as I pointed out, they have only communicated three times.....??? I'm not understanding how that has been too much...???

MUCH more detrimental to my Plan B is my communication with MIL this week. That's on ME, not on LK.

I'm hearing loud and clear that I need to do a better Plan B. I don't have SAA with me this weekend, but how's this for starters:

1. set clearer boundaries with LK on what gets through and what doesn't
2. go Plan A with MIL and no more R talk of any kind
3. send a response (via LK) to WH re: August so that's off the table....where is everyone on the suggested response I posted earlier...the apology for DC and enjoy the week at the cottage one? Got a thumbs up from shelly and nia.
4. Be more aware of triggers and my tendency to act impulsively.
5. Stay dark in all of the others ways that I have been (which I have been doing very well with until this week with MIL)
6. Continue to focus on the "me" stuff...what I control...new job, trip planning, time with friends, etc.
7. Breathe and be still.

Any additions or deletions?

8. Call one of the Harleys to help you with your plan
(they are the pros, remember?)

no one is saying too much communication between them. It is the interaction between you and MIL, You and SIL, what you read into and from the communication between WH and LK.

Instead of you knowing exactly what is being emailed back and forth, you should be just getting something along the lines of "LS, WH is requesting kids for such and such dates, does that work for you?" You should be replying and she should be passing along simpley "yes, that is fine or no, we had a verbal agreement for me to vacation with the boys on such and such dates."

Honestly, can you tell us that visiting with SIL is not meeting a little bit of your need to know what is going on with WH? You might need to avoid WH talk with her, too.

Call one of the Harleys, ok?

9. Remember the Big Picture. Not today's drama, whatever it may be.

Do you have a cheat sheet you can look at? A plan for when you are triggered? Where you have written down what you're going to do and how you are going to think? With some reminders about why you are doing this?
That's what Jennifer recommended for me.

And Moveforward is right. It's the content of the communication. LK was putting too much of you into your messages and letting too much of him come through to you. Keep it much more businesslike.

LS ~

Write this in lipstick on your bedroom mirror:

Do you want to be Right or do you want to be Married?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=