I’m going to appear to go against the grain a little here. I think I’m just tackling this from a different tangent.

I'm not so very sure your recent difficulties are a result of trying to "control" things, LS. I’ve been around controlling personalities and I don’t see that negative character trait in your words. Now...I haven't read your entire thread (only today's posts) but I suspect you may instead be a strong-minded person with an instinctive desire to resolve problems expeditiously so you can get on to the next problem. You want to be proactive, rather than re-active. You are given to direct action, rather than subtly “influencing” events, right?

Those are not bad qualities in a person. In another context, they would make you the CEO of a large business, as opposed to a mailroom clerk. Today, though, those personality traits led you into some difficulty.

The thing is, lady, a tendency for quick, decisive action must be tempered by a realization that plans set in motion must be given time to work or the plan will be blown apart. A matter of patience, if you will. Specifically, Plan B is something that cannot be an on-off kind of thing. Dark means dark, period. Plans A and B work “indirectly” (in a manner of speaking) on the mind of the WS and nothing but time will have the intended effect.

Follow the plan, LS. Be angry, be frustrated, be as aggravated as you want to…but never let “them” see it. Take it out on the jogging path, punch that big bag in the gym; go into a closet and do the primal scream thing if that’s what it takes, but don’t let the impatience overwhelm you, okay?

If I might, I suggest you listen to the advice about MIL. You never will get her on your side. It almost never happens. If it does, hallelujah! But don’t expect it. Don’t bother trying to get it. You tried logic but you’re fighting biology, not reason.

Someday MIL may be as she once was with you, but not today and not any time soon. Accept that; live with it because you aren’t going to change it. Like someone else also suggested, if MIL has been your intermediary, arranging the kid’s visitations and such, find someone else.

So…you blew it with the cottage thing. Okay, it’s done now…can’t do a thing about it. Look, you’ve found out some things about MIL and maybe even yourself. For instance, one lesson might be you know now you need to learn patience. As grandma used to say, “Count to ten before you say anything.” Sound advice for a dispute between children, or an encounter with MIL, isn’t it? MIL’s intransigence was a difficult thing to have smack you in the face without warning, but it’s in the past and you can’t correct a single thing.

Now get over it! You’ve been rehashing this for long enough this evening and too much more is going to be counterproductive. Look, Plan A and Plan B rarely run smoothly. Don’t expect them to, for Pete’s sake. Give yourself a break. There are too many emotions involved for events to proceed from point A to point b without some detours along the way. What you do is take this incident as a lesson learned and get on with things.

Hey, it’s Saturday night and there are a lot better activities you can be doing. There’s a new movie on HBO, for instance. One I’ve been meaning to watch. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LS, hang in there. Today was one of the low points in the rollercoaster ride. Learn from it, resolve to not make the mistake again, and get on with things, okay? Good luck!

. send a response (via LK) to WH re: August so that's off the table....where is everyone on the suggested response I posted earlier...the apology for DC and enjoy the week at the cottage one? Got a thumbs up from shelly and nia.

Why are you apologizing to him? Why are you telling him to enjoy the week at the cottage.

THAT is too much communication. You might as well converse with him yourself when you interact like that.

Try to use one word replies....ONE word....Yes...No....Fine.

He is querying about something that is four months from now.

WH: Id like to take the boys on vacation the first week of August..is that a problem?

You: NO

WH: Can I take the boys the first week of August?

You: Yes

WH: I am going to be late getting the boys.

You: Fine

It shouldn't require much more than that...and when you start making small talk...like apologizing and telling him to enjoy this or that...you know that you are communicating too much.


committed

i agree with committed. KISS... keep it simply simple

he could care less about you telling him to "enjoy the week" trust me. now, you being short and to the point and yes or no answsers only, now that speaks something. i think that will eventually be like "Wo" to him. wow, lil sis is movin on! don't let him ever think in any way shape or form that you are home just sad and crying and pining away over him. don't let him think you are doing anything but moving on and taking care of the kids.

mlhb

Lil Sis,

Start focusing on you. I think you have figured it out for yourself in your latest interaction with MIL. She is not your ally. She is going to be her son's ally. This may sound trite but blood is thicker than water for most people. Start preparing yourself for YOUR future. Start to lean on your own family, your own support system. I am by no means suggesting that you cut your MIL out of your life. However, you need to be kind and courteous to her, but nothing more. No more heart to heart talks, no more reasoning your position as it relates to WH. No more trying to control or convince others to see it your way. Accept the fact that WH is the only person who can turn this thing around.He has to decide to end the affair and come home. MIL can't make him stop the affair, Whether he goes to the cottage in August or to the moon is neither here nor there. None of this has any place in Plan B. Ask yourself, what are your goals? Do you want to recover your marriage? Do you want to work on personal recovery? If so go dark, do it now. Get out of drama mode and start focusing on YOU.

LS,
read this post carefully.
THIS is the type of communication your intermediary should be having w/ WH.
yes, she has only communicated w/ him 2 times...but,each time it's been TOO MUCH....it fueled too many emotions in you.
also got you talking about things w/ MIL that you just shouldn't be talking about in plan B.

It must get so confusing, LS.....You want to hold on the the hope that H will return......BUT,
you need th let that go.
just like mimi did.

I don't think i gave the thumbs up for an apology for DC and an enjoy the week at the cottage.infact, i don't even remember reading that.

just to clarify...i vote...keep it simple ....as simple as possible.

editing to add..
went back to reread the thread.i did respond to shellybirds post saying i agreed but i hadn't read YOUR reposne where you apologized for DC etc.....things DO get confusing around here!!

anyway.....i vote to keep it VERY simple.
IF you already sent hat post...don't fret.....just keep it simple from here on in.

ii keep asking if you consider calling Dr.Harley to help guide you in plan B?

lil sis, if you change intermediarys, i don't think your sister is a good idea either. you need someone NEUTRAL. your sis is obviously on your side and it could very easily get ugly with her having to read crap from him as well. either look into a real mediator (i believe you can find one through the legal system) or find someone who is not in any way shape or form emotionally involved in this.

people too close to the situation are going to be affected by having to read some of his stuff.

and i know you said there have only been 3 emails, but they ahve been 3 very emotionally charged, not very well filtered emails. every one of them has had you in a tizzy! that is what we mean when we say there is too much communication. 3 emails that said wayyyyy too much in them and were not short and to the point and were not filtered well enough before they got to you because your best friend is too emotionally involved in this. NOTHING AGAINST HER, i would be emotionally involved to if you were my best friend. but that is why she does not make a good intermediary for you two.

mlhb

morning!

i don't think you should change intermediarys now. (that would disrupt plan B too much and WH would have a field day w/ it)

explain plan B to the one you have.....replys should be short and simple.
and there should be no discussions about WH to get you riled up and reactive. plan B is suppose to give YOU peace.

nia,
respectfully, i don't see an issue with changing the middle guy. now, if the one she has can start being less emotioanlly involved and can keep emails FROM LIL SIS AND WH to one or 2 sentences and to the point, fine. but it seems she has too much invested in lil sis and i think she wants to protect lil sis (of course) and so she adds her own tid bits to the responding emails.

i don't see anything wrong with wh getting an email from a new intermediary stating matter of factly "due to the emotional involvement of lk (are those the right friends initials? don't recall.. anyway) to this situation she has stepped down as mediator. all emails will go through me at this point. please keep reponses short and to the point as will lil sis. thank you.

or something like that....

but that is just my humble opinion.
my stepmom was our middle guy for a while and emails were only to concern the kids. she did not filter very well at all. actually, she filtered nothing she just forwarded exex emails straight to me! not good. than, for awhile, and i hope you all are sitting down. ow was actually the middle guy for a while! yup, there was a restraining order against h and he and i needed to communicate about the kids and he could not contact me in any way. so SHE would email me his questions,etc.. only problem was, SHE of course was not neutral and believe me she got her own digs in until finally i said ENOUGH and had someone else as the middle guy who could keep thier 2 cents to themselves. (altho some of the things ow said to me in those emails i printed out and could have used in court if need be!) oh, that was so much fun.

as much as my ex can be a cocky arrogant narcissistic sob, i'd rather deal with him than a snot nosed barely old enough to drink legally ow! grrrr!

sorry, got off track!
mlhb

just wanted to add about my above sitch.. please remember, i was NOT in a plan B to get my husband back. didn't want him then, don't want him now! we had a middle guy because i had a restraining order against him and he was not to be anywhere near me or talk to me or email me, etc... that is why ow, for a short while, played middle guy.

just wanted to clarify that. you all would think i was really nuts if i was in plan b and ow was the intermediary! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
(i am only a little nuts, not a lot, just a little) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
mlhb

On the proposed email with apology...

LilSis,

I think it is a good idea right now for this reason: although it felt like it, you have not been in a true plan B. Since you continued to have interactions with WH by proxy through MIL, I think this would be a good way to go out with a blaze of glory with both of them. In fact, I would go so far as to call MIL, apologize to her, tell her the content of the email, and then STOP talking about anything related to WH with her.

It will leave them with plan A memories, rather than the "unreasonable, overreacting, overemotional, crazy" LilSis that WH continues to try to make you into.

this post made me laugh. thanks for that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

as far as changing intemediarys goes......i agree that a more nuetral party would be MUCH better...i mentioned that a few pages ago....but, i remember LS having a difficult time figuring out who she could use in the first place... and i don't think her sister would be better because of all the reasons you mentioned.too close, too emotionally attached to the situation.

IF she can find a more nuetral party than her friend, i agree that changing would work well......if not, why disrupt what is already in place?
just get a better handle on what plan B is supposed to be....and make sure intermediary understands.

this sounds reasonable and makes sense....but, i would keep the apology very short and sweet.

Shol:
That's what my instincts tell me, but my instincts, apparently, are for $hit.

For one, although WH will end up doing the "I told you so" thing if I sent the apology, so what. I'm the bigger person. Nothing is insincere. It's a choice between being good and being righteous.

I probably SHOULD have given him more than eight day's notice about DC...although given his behavior at the time (having just taken off for three weeks), it didn't seem that he would have problem losing one afternoon. Yes, it's total hypocrisy for him to complain about it, but it doesn't make it right.

And I do hope that they have a good time at the cottage. For the sake of the boys. They don't deserve any of this, so let them suck as much pleasure out of life as they can. Let the evil king take the princes; the princes still know the queen is the one who is there when it matters.

Simply saying "enjoy the week at the cottage" allows me to again be the bigger person and inform him that the week is "his," without explicitly saying, "yes, okay, WH, go ahead, you win..." with my tail between my legs.

The other thing that I was thinking about on the drive home from my sister's was the birthday present. Today is WH's birthday, and the gift the boys got for him in DC is stuffed in the closet, on the advice of those here.

Honestly, it does feel rather cheap and petty to not remind the kids about it, or stick it in a bag and leave it hanging on the doorknob for when WH brings them home tonight. The boys are so excited to give gifts, and THEY would feel badly once they realize it was forgotten.

It is correct that WH did NOTHING for my birthday, but that wasn't the RIGHT THING either; why should I stoop to his level?

If I want to sort of go out in that "blaze of glory" then the b-day gift coupled with the apology would do just that. Then total darkness...ONLY business with the intermediary (making that crystal clear to her).

It also allows me to not speak AT ALL to MIL....my actions will speak FOR me...totally accomodating the her poor misunderstood boy on the vacation stuff, AND ensuring the boys acknowledged his b-day. She'll know in her heart that doing both of those things were difficult for me emotionally, but I did them because they were the RIGHT THING to do....for the boys. At least SOMEONE is modeling good behavior.

Because honestly, I don't WANT to talk to MIL now, I can't...I need to go through my own withdrawal from her and enforce NC. I really do, no matter what you all say. No matter what is said, I will end up hurt. It really, really hurts. My losses seem to have been piling up the last few days; or my awareness of them is heightened...MIL, H, the cottage, my dad, even leaving my sister's this morning....feeling like I was driving back to the front lines, alone, leaving the safety and security of my parent's home, MY family.

I am feeling in a really dark depression today. I had previously accepted an invite to LK's later for a get-together with some friends, so at least I have to get out of the house and into the land of the living. I desperately need to re-establish the buffer, to make sure that those around me are completely on my side.

I need to be around people who will let me cry and just pat me on the back, who will not even HINT that my feelings or experiences related to WH are inappropriate or unjustified, and who will tell me that I'm a good mom and not attempt to convince me that WH is a "good father"...instead of implying the opposite on both counts. I need to be told that I'll be okay...

I am down, down, down....

There have been major $LB withdrawals over the past few days. Even without all the additional drama, finding out that WH was the one who rented out the cottage knowing that I wanted it = cha-ching.

As WH said, it was hard for me to hear. He was right about that, I'll give him credit.

I am going to continue to think it over today...really ponder it...but I am leaning towards sticking the gift on the doorknob tonight and sending the apology email, then turning out the lights completely.

I can have a very frank conversation with LK today about her role and what I need from her. If she is WILLING, I'd like to keep her to avoid the "changing in midstream" issue drawing attention...but also because this stuff is SO personal...I can't imagine asking someone else to do it.

I have cried on LK's shoulder over boyfriends, jobs, weddings, first babies born on the same day, my dad's illness, his death, her FWH's infidelity...we've pretty much grown up together.

Yes, that makes her more invested than an intermediary should be, but choosing another friend...someone without that history...I don't know...

I just really can't take any more right now. I just want to take care of today and move on in total darkness. If she can just keep the lights out for me, then I'd like to continue with that.

If she felt it was too much, she could forward anything from WH to someone else......that way WH doesn't even know.

LilSis -

My boys' dad was a rotten father who never paid a dime of child support. As the boys got older, I stopped reminding them to send him something for Father's Day and his BD. He died alone in his house 3 days after his birthday. I have always regretted that they didn't send him anything. Although he brought it all on himself, he was STILL their father.

I'm sorry you are going through this. Your husband, OW, and MIL are all WRONG. People are not replaceable, and I hope that is what you will model for your sons.

First, hugs to you LS.

I have been reading your thread from the beginning. I am seeing a thought pattern in you right now that is not helping you. I keep hearing "victim" statements. While as BS, we ARE victims to our WS assault on us and our marriage, it does not help you to keep yourself in the victim "role". It undermines your ability to think as a warrior, engaged in the battle for your marriage.

I had to work hard at this myself. It does us no good to think in this pattern. It keeps us down and weakens our ability to stand up and fight for ourselves, our marriages and our cildren's well-being.

It's a beautiful day in W Mich. Enjoy the sunshine and think like the fighter you are!

We are all rooting for you!

No point in beating yourself up over what is done.

Just do the best you can today. Right now.
So, maybe you lost a battle...but not the war.

Give yourself a buffer. Commit to 2 days before you do ANYTHING in way of response to any shots fired from enemy territory.

Will you have 2 weeks of vacation this summer?
If so, so back to the plan I outlined earlier:

1. Take those boys on their first plane ride to Cape Cod and play in the ocean.
2. Find another week at the cottage for you and the boys.
(I would personally *because I have a mean streak* find a week PRIOR to WH's.
3. Finish cleaning your toilets
4. Then respond to his request. VERY short and to the point.

"Week in June is fine. Week in August is fine.
Lilsis will be taking the boys on vacation July x - x and August x - x."

No more. No apologies. No acknowledgement of his sneaky crappy behavior.

Then get focused on enjoying YOUR life. Have some fun with friends today. Give lots of hugs.

I vote against the gift. Simply because I would not start a pattern of coming up with exceptions to the rule in order to break Plan B. There is no way your Plan will be effective that way. I am sensing you are feeling the need to "do something" again, and your latest interactions with MIL and the whole cottage thing with WH seems to be fueling it. You have got to get a handle on your emotions. You will constantly get the urge to "do" or to "fix" but you don't have to act upon those urges. I'd just go dark now. No Parting gifts are necessary. Put the gift in the boys' room and when they get around to giving it to WH, so be it. Let WH live by the choices he has made. You are going to have to train yourself to stick to the Plan. You have already shown too much of "yourself" in the latest emails through the intermediary and through your interactions with MIL. Why not just go dark? Putting the gift on the door is again sticking your head out of the darkness, is that your intention? I am rooting for you LilSis, but I have to be honest with you. IMHO, the need to "be the bigger person" and to prove that you are the bigger person by giving the gift (even though WH did not have the kids give you a gift) should not be the focus here. You are going to have to decide if Plan B is what you really want to do. Facilitating the gift is completely out of Plan B.

Personally, I don't think you need to prove that you are "right" or "good" or "the bigger person" by facilitating the gift. I think that if you want to recover your marriage, going dark now with no excuses or exceptions is the only fighting chance you have.