yes...

if LS's WH were a cop, doctor, lawyer, maybe professional athlete, and several other professions I can't think of now (say the Owner/CEO of a successful company or other highly paid executive) I'd have said the same thing.

No offense to our boys (edited to add: or girls) in blue intended.

Mr. W

Whatever the reason...it sure is discouraging to be so unceremoniously tossed away like unwanted garbage without so much as a second glance.

Trust Harley, huh? But what if WH is just one of those who is he11 bent on destroying himself, and his family in the process?

Sigh. I guess the boys and I will just carve out our own little family, minus the dad and husband. I can do it; it just feels wrong.

Just threw myself a little pity party. Yippeee.

I think someone else mentioned having your own support system there with you. Maybe your mom and your sister, or even your intermediary could come along? That will give you the buffer zone you need. WH and the inlaws will not be as comfortable trying to engage you if you are with your family/support system. It will be a very hard line to cross for WH and he would be very reluctant to do so. If your mom is anything like mine, quite the firecracker, he'd keep his distance indeed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Maybe you'd arrive early and go backstage, have your mom, or your sis and/or friend (LK?) be on the lookout and once WH/inlaws take their seats then you all could safely sit on the other side of the venue, completely out of sight (if possible). Just remain as dark as possible.

Y'all want me to kick Mr. W's [censored]? I'll do it, just say the word! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LilSis...We've got ya in our prayers! ((((SIS))))

Mrs. W

Sis,

You could drop DS11 off early. Leave (or hide out) until just before the concert starts. Slip in and take a seat waaaay in the back, after you watch WH go in and sit. That way, you can see where he sits, where the ILs sit, and avoid them all.

Also gives you the fun of watching WH try to find you, while you are safely hidden from his view, if you do it right. Walk in behind a group of people you do not know, and that he does not know, and sit alongside them, or slip into a row in the back as they pass by if they don't sit toward the back. Be sure NOT to leave a seat between you and the next group of people, and do not sit on an aisle seat or in the last or second to last row; sit next to or behind another woman if you can who is wearing a similar color to the clothing you have on (this increases visual search difficulty - wear a darker color top, with sleeves, also, because the house lights will go down during the concert). Watch people as they go in, and choose where to sit accordingly, if you really want to mix yourself in well with the crowd - look at what people are wearing. Don't do anything unique with your hair, but make a slight change to it (for example, if you usually wear it down and loose, put it in a softly gathered barrette to the back, or vice-versa). Next, do your very best not to talk to anyone (voices are very easy to pick up on, and your body language when you speak will quickly distinguish you in a crowd).

OR,
Just do what Mr. W said - stay backstage.

But, isn't it intriguing on how you can hide in a crowd?

Sometimes cleaning out one's inbox isn't a great thing. I found this...I must have saved it from when it was originally sent back in 2002. It was from WH, written to me and my sisters:

I once sent your Dad a joke via email about the problems experienced upgrading from Girlfriend 1.0 to Wife 1.0. While I don't have the original joke anymore here is the text of his reply. I thought I had lost it years ago but just now found it "cleaning" out my computer. We all miss his wit and charm.

WH

WH - Because of the subject matter I believe it was you - I just read the information regarding the upgrading of Girlfriend 1.0 to wife 1.0 and found that many years ago I experienced the same problem. Uninstall sure does not work. I believe that the only answer is to try to work out an accomodation with wife 1.0 and that accomodation seems to be that you learn that the answer is either "yes " or "OK" I have developed this accomodation and it seems to work just fine. Struggling to over ride Wife 1.0 is a project that I find is not worth the effort or perhaps even the paybacks. Good luck and hang in there!

Dad

Too bad that WH didn't take my Dad's advice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Now I've lost them both.

Pity party over. Off to the store with the boys. All outta milk. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

that's a tough email to find.
a little pity party is understandable.
i will be keeping you in my prayers tonight.

Not intending to cause problems but lilsis - you keep saying WS is abandoning his kids and abandoning being a dad. That is not true and is not a healthy attitude for your boys to see or interpret. WS will ALWAYS be their dad. It seems to me he wants to be dad and is making the effort. Some dads do leave it all behind - wife and kids and their past life and never look back. Yours is not - he is utilizing his visitations and attempting to continue to be a father and have the best relationship he can with them under the circumstances. He has wife problems - and morality and commitment ones - but not kid issues. The dynamics have changed as far as you and him being a couple and married but his dynamic with his kids fundamentally has not - he is still their dad and being their dad. He is not abandoning them. Please consider this and honor it when interacting with your boys about their dad. It is a diservice to your kids and not true to relate to them that their father is abandoning them. He isn't - he is abandoning you - not them. Please try to keep these seperate. Emotionally it will be healthier for them.

I would say that any WS has Kid issues, as they are certainly not considering them.

Now, that being said, I don't think Sis is exposing her children to her 'thoughts' on this, I think she is venting her opinion of him here.

Cheating on your spouse and leaving your children behind without once trying to save your marriage is a hallmark of a bad person, making bad choices, not really considering the fallout. It is abandonment. That is how it feels to the children. This is my opinion, as I'm one of those abandoned children, so I don't see how WH leaving his children could at all be considered HEALTHY for them...

Sorry notashoped.

I disagree.

A wayward parent is not a good parent. They are by nature selfish and think only of themselves. They are spending most of their time with OP and OP children while seeing their own for only a fraction of the time formerly spent with them.

Time matters when it comes to parenting. It just does.

Intact families matter.

When waywards choose to leave the family they ARE abndoning them. Perhaps not 100% but it is a partial abandonment.

The destruction of the nuclear family by the actions and choices of one will have huge ramifications on all. Virtually every WS referred to on this site will tell the children they left behind, “I am leaving your mommy/daddy, not you.” But that’s not how the kids feel. They feel abandoned.

My WW once again told my daughter this just last Friday. But my 19 year old daughter continues to say, “She left us.” If she feels this at 19 what about all the truly little ones crushed by the WS selfish actions?

TJ here, but I had to respond to notashoped post. I agree with SL on this. My dad left for his OW. My sister and I also felt abandoned. Yeah, my dad paid support, he had his visitation, overall he was still the model father, but he still abandoned us.

First off, he knowingly left us with a mentally unstable mother.

My mom had been severely depressed before the divorce and would try to "kill" herself whenever her and my dad would get into an argument.

Once my dad left she started doing this about every 6 months and my 14 yr old sister and I had to take care of her. We learned very quickly to never talk about anything that would upset her, to avoid conflict AT ALL COSTS!!! She continued this until I was 17 and she came extremely close to succeeding, had to be committed to a psych ward for observation, stomach pumped, etc.

Not only did we feel abandoned to take care of our mother by ourselves but we went from having a very comfortable lifestyle to living in poverty. We went to having a stay at home mom to a mom that worked 3 jobs to just keep our house. While our dad lived with his OW in a huge 2 story house we wondered how we were going to pay our bills or if we were going to have money for groceries.

Now please tell me how that is not abandonment just b/c he still "acted" like the model father by spending time with us and paying his child support.

My sister and I have deep scars b/c our father left. He brought her around us immediately and he thought we were too naive to know she was more than just a friend. We did feel abandoned, it was more important to him to go to his wh*re then to stay with his children, his family!!!

Sorry, threadjack over.

I find it UNHEALTHY to not allow the children to discuss their TRUE feelings on the matter also. No matter WHAT, their daddy LEFT . He does not live there 24/7, they are not important enough to have ALL of him.

Chrisner is right, and her daughter hit it, the waywards leave the WHOLE family.

In my case, my dad was JUST an alcoholic, his bedfellow of choice.

You can't be serious, notshoped.

This WH abandoned HIS FAMILY. Are you saying that his BW is part of the family, but his kids are not???

All WS feed themselves this sort of babble and bullcrap. "Oh, no, son, oh, no, daughter, I'm only leaving your mother - I'm not abandoning YOU!"

Well, then tell that to the kids who are in the abandoned house and riding in the abandoned car and seeing their abandoned friends and sharing holidays with the abandoned relatives and struggling to live each day with their abandoned mother.

Paying child support and taking the kids out for dinner now and then does NOT make a WH a father. If he has chosen not to be there on a daily, hourly basis for his children but instead gives his time to SOME OTHER WOMAN AND HER KIDS while expecting his own to settle for his crumbs and leftovers, oh yes he sure as he!! HAS abandoned them.

I don't know your story, notashoped, but you sure sound like an active wayward to me. You've certainly got the babbling justified mindset of one.
Mulan

Notshoped,

You are simply wrong here. Someone above said it all, a wayward parent is not a good parent, period. They are selfish, misguided, immoral, devoid of emotion towards anything than POS OP, care for nothing but their fix and controlling the situation, placing blame to asage guilt. That's it.

Top that off by wanting to introduce the children to the affair partner and you have someone wanting to legitimize the illegitimate, period!

Hey all - - - I started a new thread for responses to Notshoped so we can let Sis have her thread back

Thanks, bugs. I've been away all morning, feeling lousy...but at least you all backed me up.

WH DID abandon the kids...as everyone has pointed out much more eloquently than I can right now.

I HAVE NOT stated this to the boys...interestingly, we talked about it over dinner last night. I asked them, very openly, if they felt badly about their dad because of how he has hurt me, or if they themselves felt hurt in any way. I asked this because they have seen me crying on many occasions, and I have worried about how this affects them.

Both said that they didn't like to see me hurt, and that what he is doing is wrong.

And that "he's not HERE." DS8 said, "He left." Their words, not mine...pull out your Webster's and see if that fits abandonment.

Then I took the conversation around to how I can make sure they know that I'm here for them and always will be. I didn't use it as a time to bash WH, just to help ME be more responsive to what THEY need from me.

Thanks, bugs, for rescuing my thread.

Feeling crappy today...

(((((LS)))))

Ditto.

I shall confine my remarks to that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This afternoon is my spa day with six friends! Our mom's day presents to ourselves. I'm excited!!! can ya tell??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have never even had a pedicure. I think I always felt I wasn't worth it. HA! I am SO worth it, and I SO deserve it. And I am going to enjoy it. I might decide that pedicures will become a regular thing.

So...WH is still trying to make the rules to suit him and ignore MY rules.

My mom called last night to make plans for Sunday, and mentioned that WH called my sister to "offer" me the boys on Mother's Day. Grrrrr..... Mom and I made OUR plans, and then I called my sister to make sure that we were clear and get the scoop.

Turns out that WH left a VM for sis, offering to let me have the boys on Sunday. She did not call him back. Yay, sis!

I told her to absolutely NOT call him back and do not speak to him or respond to VMs in the future. She is aware of the arrangement regarding LK as the intermediary, and I told her that it sounds as if WH is not really liking the way that LK talks to him, so he's trying to circumvent her by going to someone who is more vulnerable.

Sis agreed...she does NOT want to be involved, and she does not like talking to WH. She IS vulnerable and knows it (difficult time in her life) and she doesn't want the drama. Besides, she feels VERY betrayed by WH herself...she cared deeply for him...he had been such a steadying force in our family during dad's illness and death.

She agreed that LK is perfect because she has no fear of bringing down the hammer and establishing very strong boundaries.

She will not respond at all, and I will give LK a head's up in case WH contacts her today.

I've already resigned myself to not having the boys on M-Day. Every other year, I've had the boys ALONE on M-day because WH would go off on his annual fishing trip with a bunch of guys from work. Suddenly he's concerned about acknowledging M-day? Please...he probably had to delay his arrival at the fishing trip, and is anxious to unload the kids so he can get up there...

Whatever!!! No drama today...I am going to relish my afternoon and evening with girlfriends!