Not sure about you, but I watched MF expose with a great deal of satisfaction Thurs., however it also revealed my not-yet-managed anger towards my H's OW. (We are going to start working with our MC on this.)

In the meantime, I wondered if others might have pent-up anger towards your OP that might be affecting your recovery with your FWS.

Of course, we did everything wrong, late and backwards, so that may be a contributing factor for my anger towards myself for my pre-MB stupidity, but also towards her for her expected continued denial of her depravity.

For example, on Dday #1, most people expose, send NC, and loathe the OP, but try to work on their own M. We 'kept it between us 3', trusted OW would follow through with her promise to never speak to either of us again, (hence the multiple D Days <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> ) and I even tried to help her recover! (Not a good idea when you have no clue about withdrawal!) I emailed girl-chat letters, and when I found MB sent HNHN, articles on forgiveness, Carder's Torn Asunder, and the tape of my MB radio show call when Dr. H suggested I tell OW that I will give her a week to confess her A to her H and that I would call him after a week to confirm. (6 months, apparent intact NC, supposedly)

She had the audacity to taunt me, saying, "that will do no good for any of us, besides he already knows the truth and I have nothing to hide."

Forget the 'wait a week'... I called him that day, and by the tone of his voice, I could tell he had no clue.... so I sent the evidence packet with a letter of apology from my H and received a return receipt signed by a secretary who might have dumped the packet in the round file for all I know.

In her thank you email (probably lies), she said her H gave her the packet but she also mentioned that she "fixed what caused it (her A including multiple fantasy email/phone sex sessions with my H) and that now her life is great". She lies so I can expect that the opposite is true......but I need help with my anger towards her (for her arrogance) and him (for his apparent denial) so that such anger will no longer control my life or affect our M recovery.

MF, here's how your exposure revealed this anger to me. OW was recognized by a prestigious public school district as one of their "Teachers of the Year". By my not exposing on D Day#1, not only did we suffer multiple Ddays, unchecked withdrawal, and ill-focused communication with OW, but she will probably do this again since her H is probably in denial and believes all her lies. (She said it was not a real A because they did not meet or have physical sex and I did not tell him about the phone sex part so she could create triggers for him, not me.....yeah I know, it's too late to tell him now...BUT I STILL WANT TO! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />)

So that's my contribution to this OP ANGER DUMPSTER.

Did MarriedForever's exposure reveal OP anger to anyone else?

Ace

The last time I got involved in one of these discussions I thoughtfully introduced woodchippers into the topic. I finished my bourbon, went to bed and by morning the thread was locked. Not quite as fast as MF’s thread at the running site (what a hoot) but pretty quick.

Maybe Plan B is working pretty well for me right now because I don’t think much about OM anymore. We were once friends so initially at D-Day it was a very tough double betrayal. I assume that like my WW he is just a rotting, selfish, fogged up pod person alien of limited value, lost and useless in a world of reason and order. No doubt of even less value as a husband and father of a two year old son. It’s best to just focus on my betterment for my daughter and future than lose time thinking of him.

You know, it's rare that I see anyone say much bad about the WS.

I see OMs frequently characterized as POS, predator, less than a man, dirtbag, scumbag, and so on. I see OWs described as tramp, ho, homewrecker, slut, ad nauseum. Sometimes the name-calling can get quite creative.

But I don't see these same terms applied to WS's, who are the ones BREAKING the vows that they made. They're the ones who are lying and cheating. We gloss it over by saying they're in the fog or possessed by aliens or whatever.

It's like the WS would have remained a content goody-two-shoes if not for the Big Bad OP.

Here's something that you might have over looked. On D-day 7-11-2000, xOM was complaining about things he'd bought and a bunch of garbage like that. Well, my H looked at me, then at xOM and said, "I think you got your money's worth". In essence, calling me a w****. Did it hurt, yes, but I also felt the same about myself. Many times, when the BS is talking about the OP in the negative, and the WS in the slightly more positive, it is because they WANT to stay M'd to the WS, and the WS is working to repair the damage thay caused. I believe that many, if not all BS feel the same as my H expressed at and around D-day, but you can't repair the damage if you continue to feel that way about the WS. JMHO

CHRISNER: Always wondered about the threadlocking incident....it must have been before my time but now that I know bourbon was involved.....it makes sense.

Thanks for your insight, Chrisner....I will work to refocus my anger at OW and OPS towards positive work with our MC and our own M. If you can do it in your situation, we can too.

BITBUCKET: Interesting thought about the attitudes re: ww and why we might downplay their role.... and responsibility for the 'default' in the dynamics of our entire life quality... for a very long time....maybe forever.

TIGGER:Big picture (wanting to stay married) does change the theme of our self talk and WS talk...for me, too. At least my FWH now looks forward to waking up in the morning......he is now able to focus on our healing and not just think about how much hurt he has caused.

THANK you all for acknowledging my anger towards OP and OPS and I will continue to refocus on diffusing my need to inform OW H about how depraved his W really is. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh, I think folks do have anger at the WS, but the hurt is so deep and traumatic because of the emotional connection, that it takes some time to come out. For me, the full wrath of my anger towards my WS came out after the shock wore off months later. And boy howdy, was I ANGRY!

Anger is a healthy, normal reaction to being raped by an affair. Its expression is a healthy part of the grieving and recovery process. I don't know why anger gets such a bad rap. A normal, healthy person will feel anger at injustice; they are SUPPOSED TO.

MEL (or anyone else): Is there a thread (or MB article) with helpful insights on Anger Management you could bump?

My anger at my WS exploded the week after D Day #3 and continued with every trigger of 'what I was doing when he was in touch with her' realization. But, like Tigger, I wanted to stay married to WS, so I had to change quickly, I think, to stop the love bank withdrawals. (Didn't have a clue at the time about Love Banks or any other MB principle.)

The intriguing component, however, was I had been looking for an out for many years. During D Day#1 I was entertaining the thoughts that "yea! now I have a justifiable reason to get out of this miserable marriage", but it all changed about 5 minutes later when our adult son tearfully begged us both to fight for our family. It did not stop the anger, but it did recreate a new big picture that helps us in redirecting the anger.

My H and I will be working with our MC to refocus on diffusing my need to inform OW H about how depraved his W really is and other anger issues. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



For how long?

And how do you manage it in the meantime? Obviously anger IS healthy (Jesus got angry in the temple but did not sin), but proper management to keep its affect positive and contributing to healing from the grieving process must include a strategy and timelines.

I was going to let this thread die Mel, (were you one of the 9 people who may have read my edit to you yesterday?) but after JKG made a comment (Post # 3197436) I re-read your post and saw it in a different perspective.

My anger has been simmering for about 30 days and intensified when MarriedForever exposed last week. JKG has been angry for nearly 20 years and apparently still can't get over it.

I'm hoping you and others can give more insights on anger management guidelines, specifically relating to time.

Thanks,
Ace

But you do have a justifiable reason to leave your marriage, Sarie. I don't think you should stay in a marriage for anyone else. Only you can decide if you can recover from your resentment or not. No one else can decide that for you. If you think its best to leave, you should do that. You would be fully justified to leave an adulterous marriage if you choose. Many choose to take this path and there is nothing wrong with that. Especially with multiple D-days as in your case. There is nothing wrong with choosing to end the marriage if you so decide.

You asked me how long I will be angry? Forever, I hope. Anger is the reaction of decent people to injustice. I will always be angry about his affair, I hope. I do not, however, resent him anymore and am finished with the grieving process.

Ace, your C can't fix NORMAL. Of course you should feel anger at the OP; she violated you. It would be abnormal to feel otherwise.

Wow Mel,

I didn't know you felt this way. The anger I have been dealing with over 4 years now has been a major hurdle for me.

to say the least!

So how does one seperate the anger from OP vs the FWW? Are not both equally guilty. How do we forgive one and not the other?




I've been feeling so guilty for over 4 years now because of my anger. I've never really looked at it as justified to this extent. I loathe the OM and have made that very clear to him, as recently as last summer. In spite of that, the phrase "it takes two to tango" has been ever present on my mind for far too long. How do I surgectly remove the the anger between the two of them?/

When I popped in on OM this summer, while my anger was pretty much out of control, the look on his face said he didn't know whether to sh** of go blind. I took some satisfaction out of that. I was happy to make him feel uncomfatable

Could I ask how you achieved that?

Where do you stand today, in spite of all of this?
I am groping for a better understanding of wher I need to be in all of this.

Sorry for the intrusion.

All Blessings,
Jerry

I agree anger is a healthy part of recovery and I do believe a person has to allow themselves to feel the anger in order to let it out. If a person supresses the anger it tends to fester.

You asked how long to hang onto it, maybe this will help.

I read this a long time ago. I'm sorry I can't quote the site, I copy and pasted it in a document and don't have the source.

"Holding onto anger is like holding onto a hot coal you have picked up. The rational thing to do is to throw it away before it burns your hand. Forgiveness doesn't really have anything to do with the individual who has harmed you. Forgiveness has to do with you. Forgiveness sets you free. When you are focused on the past hurt you are not in the present. You will never experience happiness when you are focused on the past negative experiences. When you are negative, you are not loving to yourself or others. When you are not in the present, you are not living your life fully, and you are not open to receiving the abundance from the Universe that you deserve."

IMO, holding onto any aspect of anger, no matter how small, is still not healthy. I realize this also talks about forgivness, but to me they go hand and hand. If a person holds onto even a little bit of anger they are not fully forgiving even if they believe they are. If I hold onto anger it will only harm me. If my H holds onto A related anger it is harming him, in turn harms our relationship and will not allow us to fully recover. We don't want even a small piece of coal (aka anger) impeding our chance to fully recover.

Dang......I'm trying to get help for JKG (and me, too) but it keeps coming back to me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I LOVE IT because I like challenges....just ask Pep!



Mel, how did you get past your resentment and 'finish' with your grieving process? I can see your point about anger.....it's sort of like always fearing the wiles of the evil one in spite of instructions to Fear Not!



I decided that (to try to leave) during our 32 year miserable ordeal. I was just looking for a biblically justifiable reason.



Our adult children were split on D Day#1. DD27 wanted me to dump him......had wanted me to for years due to a variety of reasons detailed in my MR ROMANCE saga in the Romantic Experiences forum. (Not sure if you read it....part of it is still there.)

DS25 told H that his "If your mom wants to divorce me, we will" attitude was a cowards way out. He challenged us both to fight because God would want us to try to save our family.

Honestly, he only 'introduced' me to the thought of trying to find a way to salvage what was left of our R & M. After 4 more months including multiple D Days and another deliberate deception, I gave up, content that I had given it my best shot and that I could tell God and DS25 that I had tried.

That night the fog appeared to begin lifting and my H started to become the dream man I had been trying to 'force' him into becoming for 32 years. Could this have been the source of our/my problems? Hmmmmmmm <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

It's funny you mentioned this today, Mel. Last night I found my "liar's file" of evidence I began collecting a few years ago to try to justify "irreconcilable differences" as an out from that misery. We actually laughed about it together.....well I laughed, but when he winced a bit too much I got rid of it.

I may be euphorically 'foggy' myself, but like Mate4Life, I now have the beginnings of the marriage I've always dreamed of......why should I sabotage us now?

Back to anger/resentment/grieving issues. How do we dissipate resentment and end the grieving process positively, especially if (like in JKG's sitch) it's gone on for years?

Ace

LC,

Thanks for your quote.....sounds like it could come from a book my H and I are reading "Total Forgiveness" by R. T. Kendall. I'll check it out....the coal part sounds familiar.

Glad I replied to Mel after JKG indicated on the other thread that he's still angry and feels at times that he could explode.

If someone challenges something on my post and I don't answer immediately, it's b/c I went to church....back later.

Ace

Jerry, I do forgive my husband because he repented and asked for forgiveness. But I will always feel anger about his affair. I also feel anger about Charles Manson's murders 30 yrs ago. I feel anger at injustice. This is the reaction of ALL DECENT PEOPLE to injustice. Feeling anger at injustice is a sign of DECENCY, we are SUPPOSED to feel anger at injustice.

The OW in my case does not want my forgiveness so I have not offered it. I hate that fat ho, but she is not my problem and I never think about her. She is a vile human being who has no redemptive qualities, as far as I can see.

I don't, however, have any resentments towards my H about his affair anymore. He has fully redeemed himself and made every amend. There is nothing there to resent. If he had not done those things, I know I could never get over my resentment and I would not be interested in staying in this marriage.

I think its important to understand that anger/resentment are not bad things and I don't know how it ever got such a bad rap. We are SUPPOSED to be angry at injustice. We are SUPPOSED to feel resentment when someone is evil to us. That is how a normal, healthy, DECENT person will react to evil. IT only becomes unhealthy if it goes on too long and is all consuming.

Feeling anger and resentment towards someone who has harmed you is part and parcel of the therapeutic process. This is HOW we recover. Pretending it all away is sick, unhealthy, unnatural, disfunctional and only PREVENTS true recovery.

In a case such as yours, Jerry, where resentment towards your wife has lingered on for years,[which I do think is unhealthy] I would attribute it to two factors:

a) her refusal to do what it takes to help you recover

b) your drinking problem

If your resentment towards the OM is to such a degree that it consumes you and precludes peace of mind, I would go to a counselor and learn to redirect my thoughts. Hanging onto resentments is a classic trait of alcoholics but you can learn to retrain your thinking process. I would also avoid him at all costs. Why set yourself up with that trigger?

Ace, I am not saying you SHOULD leave your husband, only that you would be perfectly justified in doing so according to any standard. Adultery is the ONLY justified reason for divorce in the Bible. Many people do decide to leave their marriages, and they are fully within their rights. Only the BS can decide what they can or can't live with. Some marriages should probably not be saved.

Here is what Dr. Harley says about resentment:

From Dr Harley's article Coping with Infidelity: Part 4 Overcoming Resentment:


In fact, when a couple goes through a recovery after an affair, and then experience another affair, the resentment is often more intense and more persistent after the second recovery. With multiple affairs and recoveries, resentment is almost impossible to overcome. But then, in those cases I usually feel that the emotional reaction of resentment is not irrational at all. Emotions are telling the person that it's not a good idea to continue the relationship, and I would agree."

To expand on his point, if I felt I could not overcome resentment about his affair, I would end the marriage.


There are different phases of grief that a BS must go through. Common timelines are 18 to 24 mnths, but it will vary from person to person. I don't know the specifics in JKG's case so couldn't comment.

I think most of my anger is now directed toward my H...not so much to his affair(s), but due to his continuing wayward frame of mind, even though I know he has not cheated in at least 8 years...although I am keeping my eye on the possibility of a new EA.

I have harbored anger toward the STD Tramp...probably because of the nasty lil' bugs that she passed on to my WH, who then passed them on to me. Thank God they were curable!

Since she died 5 years after their ONS (which I think may have actually been 2-3 ONS) and he didn't admit to the ONS or tell me who she was until 13 years after the STD episode, there wasn't much I could do. No point in exposing to anyone in her family (why hurt her mother?), but I have harbored fantasies of dumping a huge pile of poop onto her grave. Again, never carried that out because of her elderly mother. I even told WH that I was gonna do it after her mother died, and what's more, HE was gonna conribute to the pile. Well, her mother died a couple of weeks ago...and somehow...it's not really important anymore. Besides, I really don't want to store poop in my freezer until I have enough to make a big pile, plus, with DNA testing...don't want to be able to have it traced back to me...although I did consider collecting the poop from the dog pen instead of washing it down the drain. Eeew! Don't wanna do that, either.

One thing I absolutely cannot stand to hear is a man saying, "She's just a ho."...especially when I know that he has no problem with boinking hos. That's what my H had to say about the STD Tramp. Anyway, I made it clear to him that any man who would boink a ho has no business speaking of such women as if he is somehow "better" than she is. In fact, I've made the same comment to some of his friends who are so disrespectful toward women.

I have no anger toward the last OW...because I honestly don't believe she was aware of his feeligns toward her until she became aware that their "friendship" was causing trouble between us and backed off really fast. Of course, that could change if I ever find out that anythng physical ever happened between them.

The others? Well, although I BELIEVE that something happened with at least 2 other women, I have no proof. If I ever find out the truth of the matter, my anger might pop up.

Right now, my relationship with my H belongs on your other thread...the one about "just get over it". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Mel.

I need straight forward thinking such as yours to bring me into the light of reality.

You are absolutely correct as to both a) and b) of your suposition.

Not much I can do about a) anymore in spite of litarally years of trying.

b) however is something I can do. I simply don't have the courage or fortitiude to do what it takes. I cannot seem to face the reliquishment of my choices, as it seems all to weak to me. Obvoiusly, I know I am dead wrong about this, but it doesn't seem to matter. Therein, lies the sickness! I'm sure you know waht I'm speaking about.

When I originally quit drinking, I spent probably a year in AA. After that, I spent the next 15 years without AA, because I bsed my sobriety on the love of my family and my tweo sons. I was heavily involved in thier lives, coached thier bb and hockey teams. Did everthing I could to totally imerse myself in family. It worked for me for a long time(15 years).

When my w betrayed me after 32 years of M, ther was no longer a valid reason for me, the alcoholic, to remain sober. I guess the problem was, I never really did it for my self, but rather for my W and my family. Somewhere in the process, I lost my own self, and it worked for many years. I was perfectly happy with that.

It doesn't work anymore!! I hope this has not somehow become a TJ. I apologise if if has become one.

All Blessings,
Jerry

I've read this book about 2 years ago and it is excellant! Very togh to wrap your brain arond though.

All blessings,
Jerry

I don't know about any specific post but if you are asking about anger towards the OP.... I'll jump in.... count me in.

To this day, I know that if I were to see the OP (aka: PBR) on the side of the road in need, I may at the most, call 911 but not stop to help. I already know and have informed H of that. He understands and respects my stance. I am not stopping him but when I made the boundary that she NOT be in my life, it included those kinds of incidents. So it is best that the OP stay far away from me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It is sad that I feel this way but that is reality for me. I am generally a caring person but not this time and yes, I have told God how I feel.

JMHO,
L.

The Other Person is like a shining light...to a moth!!!