So my sister did not show up in time for me to not see the WH. I was so stressed. He showed up, and I became frantic. I tried to act like I was ok, but I am sure that it showed that I wasn't. I just got so stressed seeing him. He of course just comes waltzing in the door, and starts asking about this and that and the kids... I just cut him off and said the kids are fine, help me get them ready. I hustled them out the door. Then my sister showed up(45 mins late!). So the WH says, "well, since I am watching the kids while you work this weekend, but do you think your sister can watch them. from 6:30-9 am, I am helping so and so move". I could not believe that he was lying about that. So I said, "You know how my sister is, she is always late, I need to be at work, so can't you help him move later?" This guy is NOT a morning person, and I know for a fact that his lease does not expire until the end of the month. Give me a break, how stupid does he think that I am??? So he goes up to my sister and asks her, and she said she did not know.

So me and my sister go out to dinner, and she is going through a terrible Depression. We got back to my house, and she fell asleep on the couch. H came back with the kids, and was being all loud, so I asked him to hold it down since my sister was sleeping, she is having some problems. So he sneers, "funny, how if I wanted to nap during the day I was lazy, but if it is your sister, it is problems!" So he wants to know what is wrong with her, I said nothing that needed to be talked about, but she would not be able to watch the kids on Sun. He got mad. "I promised so and so I would help him move Sun. morning! So now I have to break my promise to him since I am watching the kids!!!" AGAIN I was incredulous... he is 'watching the kids' not spending time with them, and he makes other plans, and gets mad at ME about it...will it end????? I do not want to keep him from his kids, he already is accusing me of that, but this is getting to be too much!

So I turn to him and say, "If you really think that I believe you that you are helping someone move on Sunday, you are wrong. I am sure that you want to stay out late, or stay somewhere Sat. night, which is your right. But, you said that you wanted to watch the kids, and now you are backpeddaling. If you want to watch them when I am at work on the weekends, that is fine. You chose to make other plans, you knew you were watching the kids. I am sorry, but it is not my fault. But this is my job, I cannot have my job suffer by no one being here to watch them." He looked embarassed for about a second.

He then says, with a smug look on his face, "I hear that you and your sister went on dates tonight." Almost like he was feeling good that he was not he only one doing it. I guess that our D told him that. Where she got it from, I do not know. So I told him, "no, I do not believe in dating when you are M, you know that." So he actually tried to push the issue. I said, "look, I told you that I am not dating, I am not a liar, you know that, so don't start acting like I am a liar now." He backed down. So I said, "Ok girls, tell Daddy bye!" So he left.

Why is he being so infuriating? Hasn't he hurt me enough??? I wanted to avoid all contact with him, and it just did not work out... again. I just got frustrated with him, and this situation again. It just seems that he is loving his independence more and more with each passing day. He goes out more than he ever probably did in his life, and he is 37! I think it is pathetic that he cares more about that, and his new 'friends' than his M and kids. It is sad.

Sad, he is passive-aggressive. He is delighting in pushing your buttons so he can control you and feel like he's "winning". And it's working, isn't it?

Try re-reading what I posted and learn how to deal with this. You've got to call him on his behaviour and you've got to move your buttons. If you cannot or will not do that, then you're right, you're better off avoiding all contact with him since he will only continue to torment you.

Read it again and ask some questions here.
Mulan

Rule #1 in dealing with someone who is Passive/Aggressive:

STOP RELYING ON THEM FOR ANYTHING

That's how you start moving your buttons.
Mulan

Mulan,
I see what you are saying, but the whole thing with the kids is that HE said that he was not going to watch them, then he said that he wanted to... He has on more than one occasion said that I am keeping him away from his kids. I NEVER EVER would want to keep them from their dad, I think that is wrong of people to do. I told him from the get go that I would never do that. I put the ball in his court, told him that I would not pressure him about the R at all if he came and got the kids or wanted to see them, so whenever he wanted to spend time with them, it would be up to him. This is what he said, "every second weekend overnight, every other weekend while you are at work, and maybe one evening during the week."

So I do not know what to do about that, I do not want to have someone else watch the kids (hard for me to find on a weekend too). I do not know if I am in a fog right now or what, I honestly just do not know HOW to deal with him. Everytime I think I handle it right, I realize that I did not... I am confused right now. I thought by calling him out on his lie about moving was the right thing to do, but how should I have handled it?

Thanks, I just am confused right now.

Sad: Calm down. Take a deep breath. Because of your children, you are still going to have to deal with this man even if you divorce him tomorrow so you may as well learn HOW to deal with him.

Did you read both links in my sig line? One is a very long thread on exactly what you are dealing with. Please take the time to read it carefully - don't just blast through it and then post again about how you can't believe what a jerk he is being. You are so upset that you aren't absorbing anything, and then he is free to come along and yank your chain again.

Knowledge is power. Read both links. Several of us have been where you are now, but our experience cannot help you until you calm down and start hearing what we are saying. Take some time to look at the links and then come back here so we can talk about them.

And you do not have to file for divorce unless you are sure you really want one. Legal separation might be a very good thing to get right now in order to get some protection for yourself and your kids, but you don't have to frantically rush out and file for D just because he's being an a$$ again.

Just slow down. Breathe. Think. Learn. THEN you can deal with him, when you are far better prepared.
Mulan

Never forget that his goal is to keep you right where you are this minute - raging, frustrated, confused, off-balance and POWERLESS. Are you going to let him keep you there, or are you going to learn how to cut this off so he can no longer do this to you?

Read the links! Read them slowly and think about them!
Mulan

Mulan-
Thanks for the advice, and the wake up call. I probably am acting in an insecure, and needy fashion around him, which is making me a prime target for his game.

The two 'buttons' that he pushes are the fact that he acts like our M did not mean much to him- ex. it was never that good, so that it is not worth saving, dating, he never loved me enough...etc. Should I not respond at all when he says these things? I know that he used to love me, and our M meant something to him. It usually gets me upset when he says anything along those lines. I have been trying to hold it in more, but I guess that I am not doing too good of a job.

The other thing is with the kids. He always said that he would always be around for them, and yet he has not called one day to just pick them up after work, or to spend the evening with him. It is usually after I ask him, "so do you want to spend any time with them, or could you watch them?" It HURTS me that he has changed his whole attitude towards them. Instead of 'spending time with' he is now 'babysitting or watching' them. Then he is always quick to throw in how I keep him away from them, which I do not. I do counter with every plan that I can think of so that he can see them whenever he wants to, and that is how this arrangement came up.

Do you think that in my present state of mind, where I get thrown off by him W/O even realizing that, that I should just cut myself off from him completely, and work on building a life for me and my kids? He makes me crazy a lot of times, and it adds a lot of stress to my life. I do not want to be just friends with him, and if he is dating, that kind of cuts him out as a friend, or someone that I could trust at all anymore. That is why I was saying D. I just feel so betrayed, and out of control of this whole situation. I know that I can control MY situation, but the whole M situation feels like it is out of my control, and it makes me feel helpless, and yes, frantic.

Thanks for any advice you can give me!

Well I have made it a whole week without calling him, or asking him for help on anything. I am actually proud of myself for that... I have gone a week without calling him before, but he had called me in the meantime, and we talked then. This time I did not call him, and he called one time, I did not answer, and he did not leave a message.

He watched the kids today for me to work. Normally he would come in, go downstairs, and lay on the couch, acting like he was sleeping. So today he comes in, and lurks around me -sitting on the stairs looking at me, when I was getting my coat on, he tried to make small talk. I did not really respond, I told him what time I would be home, and I left for work. So when he brought the girls back he says,"Oh, I am so sorry, I guess that our D left her shoes at my house, I did not realize this until I got here... I hope that you did not have any plans to go out..." I smiled and told him that it was ok, I had just gotten her some new shoes, so that was fine. I think that he actually did that thinking that I would just sit here! My other D was being silly, she was making me laugh, and he was trying to get into it too. I let him for a minute or two, then I said, "ok, we will see you tomorrow!" He then asked me, "so how is work going for you? Did you get transferred?" (I work where they can just transfer you wherever, and I am due for a transfer...which I do not want at all! I talked to my boss about letting me stay where I am since I am kind of stressed out.) I told him work was ok, I put off a transfer for now though. He tried to talk more, but I asked the girls if they wanted to go to the park, they wanted to, so I said, "Ok, let's go!" He then left too.
I am happy that I have not called him and that I did not freak out about seeing him today at all. That is the first time. I am also glad that I seemed to catch that he was trying to stress me out about my job (he knew I was dreading a transfer, and getting upset about it) and the shoes (keeping me at home). I did not respond in a manner that even showed that I was even slightly annoyed. So for today, he did not get my goat. Yay!
I am feeling better about the whole thing, and I am feeling more confidant about myself, I know that I tried to work things out as best as I could, I am not beating myself up at moment for our M, and that is good too. So today I am feeling good about me. So that is good. :-)

Hi Sadmo, I've gotten to some of your story. My H is very P-A and it took me many years to figure it out. Now I'm still living with him, but don't know how long it will last. He always agrees with everything I say and then walks out the door and does whatever he wants...which geberally is the opposite of what he just agreed to...it's hard to win with someone like this.

My last hope is detachment, and I am working on it, but it is VERY difficult. When I have been able to stick with it, though I have seen results. It takes WEEKS or more of EXTREME self-restraint to keep my mouth shut and not let his behavior get to me. The hardest part for me is "calling him on it" and then dropping it.

For example, he promised to be home from work by 5 on the 2 days a week I work. As a matter of fact he said "I'll be home by 4 or so those days...AT LEAST by 5" So, I told the babysitter no later than 5. All along, given his job as school administrator, i was thinking he probably couldn't do that, but believed him anyway...DUH... So, ofcourse 3 days into my return to work he gets home at 5:45. I pointed out that he shouldn't have promised 5 if he couldn't do it. I should have dropped it there. But he comes back with "You should have known there would be nights I couldn't be home" He totally misses the point and puts it back on me. The fact is, promising things that you have no intention of delivering on is a lie...With PA, you are supposed to call them on it, then drop it. I guess my point is that would work...if only it were that easy...Don't beat yourself up...there are many of us right there with you!

You are exactly right - but you should also Stop Counting On Them For Anything! He has shown you that he cannot be relied upon to get home when he says he will - so, what would you do if he went out of town for a month and you had to deal with the babysitter yourself? You'd find a way, and you should do the same now.

Since he has chosen to be unreliable, you've got to protect yourself from that and you have every right to do so. If he says anything, just tell him that if/when he wants to be dependable you'll be glad to rely on him but until then you have no choice but to deal with it yourself.

You do NOT have to just suck it up and suffer through their cruelty. You should call them on it and drop it, yes, but you should also find ways to solve your situations (as with the babysitter) that do not involve relying on the P/A. That will send him a message far quicker than just stuffing it and building up a burning resentment for him.

He'll never even notice THAT.
Mulan

Notice his selfish tendancies. Is this new?

He is even putting his selfish interests ahead of taking care of his own children. Does this make him a dangerous parent and would you want to continue and live your children in the care of such a character?

Do you find you emotions going up and down like a roller coaster? Want it to stop...for you?

L.

Orchid, yes I do notice his selfish tendancies. And you know what is actually pretty crazy is that when we were dating I asked him what his worst quality was, and he said his selfishness. I did not see it at the time, but as I look back, I see it a lot.
Mulan, I agree with you with the babysitting. I actually had a sitter lined up, and he said that no, he wanted to do it. I kept her on back-up, just in case. He showed up, on time, so that was good.
Today when he dropped the kids off, he asked me what days I needed him to watch the kids this week. I told him that I did not need him to watch them at all. He then said, "Oh, I do not mean it that way, I mean what days can I spend with them?" I told him whatever days that he wanted to spend with them would be fine with me. So he said that he would like to pick them up on Wed. after work. That is fine. I do not want to keep him away from them. He used to be a really good dad, and he still is, when he is with them (I think).

As far as my emotions go, I am feeling better than I have in a long time. I mean a LONG time. I do not know if it is that I stopped calling him, that I went on anti-anxiety meds., that I packed up the rest of his stuff, that I only have access to the house now,that I have been trying to stabilize myself more, by seeing friends a little more, or what, but I am feeling A LOT better. It is probably a combo of all of it. All I know is that I have been having a lot more fun with my girls, and I have been having a lot more fun everywhere. I am not so on edge... I feel like I am taking my life back. I was stuck in limbo for SO LONG...

And I do want the roller coaster to stop- for me. I am excited that it seems to be slowing down! :-)

IMHO, bad thing to give the kids to the WS...'whenever'. Bettter to keep it scheduled. Especially for the sake of the children.

Why would you want a WS to watch your children?

L.

Orchid,
The thing is, when I tried to keep it scheduled, that is when he started the nonsense of bringing them back early, "forgetting' that he was supposed to have them, etc. I decided to lay it all on him, especially since he had accused me on more than one occasion of 'keeping him away from' his kids. I decided to take aways ANY of the ways that he could perceive this as true: I stopped talking to him about the R when he picks them up, and drops them off. In fact, I do not really talk to him at all right now. Just the basics. I stopped having him watch the kids so that I could go and do things- you know plan something, and THEN ask him, I have been asking him when he wants to see them, then I will plan accordingly. This way I am not expecting him to 'watch' them, and he has absolutely no basis for his 'I am keeping him away from' them. He is a good dad. When this all started, I told him that I do not want the kids around any signifigant other, and if they are, then I will not let him take them. So far, I believe that he kept his word. I have no reason to think otherwise. So he gets to spend time with them, and I get a break. It is working out so far. Now that I am not depending on him to "watch' them for me if I want to go out for fun, it has been better.

I do not want my kids to suffer by not having their dad in their life, and I do not want to take them away from him, he has been a good dad... they were the light of his life. I am just hoping that he stops the nonsense that he is doing, and decides that he wants them to be more a part of his life.

I was just wondering if anyone had any advice on how to deal with your kids when all of the drama of a seperation or D is going on? I have been trying to be a good mom, by not spoiling them, giving them attention when I am not at work, being strong for them. But it is hard sometimes when your D says, "I want to go to Daddy's! Daddy is more fun!" or "Daddy gives me candy, Daddy takes me here...." or (my favorite) "I hate you! I want Daddy!"

I have NOT been bad mouthing their dad at all to them, I do not believe in that. I have been trying to put on a strong front, and I have done that, except for probably the first month after he left. I am in a better state of mind right now than I have been in in a long time, so I do not understand why my D is starting the Daddy talk again... She did at first, and then she stopped. It is making me feel bad, even though I know that she is just a little girl, and this is hard on her too.

Is there any advice for me on what I should say to her, or what I can try so that she would not want to say those things? As of now I tell her, "Mommy loves you very much and does not want you to ...(fill in the blank with whatever it is)." I am calm and I will hug her when I tell her this, but she has now been pushing me away.

Thanks for any advice!

Grrrr...
Well today dear old WH comes over for the kids. One was sleeping, one was playing in the backyard. He chit chats, then I got up, did some stuff downstairs, then he gathered up the kids and he left. I had some alone time, so that was good.

Well, he drops the kids off, and tells me, "why are you so happy lately?" I said that I was just in a good mood. He tells me that he noticed that I had lost some weight, and he really likes my hair. I was like, "ok, thanks". He goes downstairs, and comes back up with a SOCK and asks me, "whose sock is this? It is a man's sock!" I tell him that it was my sisters' sock. He told me, "it is a man's sock!" I tell him that I am so sure, I am going to have a man over, and do their laundry! He drops it.

So he comes upstairs and says, "so, are you on any prescription meds?" (I just went on an AD/ Anti-anxiety pill) and I said, "why?" He says, "I think that I should know if you are." I tell him no, and he says, "I NEED to know, in case there are any problems." So I say, that yes, I am. And he tells me that he is glad that I am doing something for myself. Grrrr.

He leaves, and my DD is talking about this girl that she has mentioned before. She said that she played with her today. Long story short, he told me he went to some guy and his girlfriends house so the kids could have a playdeate. THis girl my D has been talking about is NOT one of their kids. So she says that none of daddy's friends were there, just this person, and this person, both of them SINGLE women. It makes me MAD, mad that he did not tell me the truth, and mad that my D was at the one person's house. His friend is suppposedly dating her, but my D said that he was not there. So I call him to ask him, and he LIES to me. He tells me he does not know a girl by that name, and my D told me that she played with her. I asked him where she would have gotten this from. He said he had to go, he would talk to me tomorrow about it. I told him that I could not believe that his values flew by the wayside, and he was actually going to put our kids around someone he was seeing..... He said that he hasn't. My D brought up this one woman's name that was supposedly there, and he told me she wasn't. I believe my D. What I do not believe is that he would be putting my kids around this other person...

Can you tell your WS that they CANNOT have their kids around people of the opposite sex that they may be dating? Can you tell them that if they bring your kids around that that you are not going to let them see the kids??? The reason that I ask is that that was what he said that he would not do- have the kids around strange women. Yet, my D is telling me differently. It makes me so upset. I told him today that he does not need to have 'playdates' everytime that he has the kids, he should be bonding with the kids when he has them, not using them as a reason to be social with new people.

This goes against EVERYTHING that I believe in, I do not WANT my kids to see their dad with other women, esp. strange women that they do not know, and I would not put them around any men that they did not know. Am I over- reacting?? I believe that when you have kids, you raise them in whatever way is best for THEM, that they should be your #1 priority... I do not want my kids thinking that his lifestyle of loser friends, and maybe even more, is OK... Is there anything that I can do???