Well sure enough, I asked again today if she had cahnged her appointment to a time that makes it possible for both of us to attend, and she hasn't. She again asked the question "why do you want to go". I told her that her pdoc wanted to explain something to me and I wanted to go, and she said "i already explained what he wanted to tell you"

anyways, her apt is tommorrow and its too late to change it anyway, but I did ask her if she would give her pdoc the ok to talk to me alone, and make an apt for me since we can't seem to get a time where we can both go.

She sounded like she would ask him, but never really said for sure. Hopefully she will and then her pdoc can meet with me and I can ask him all those questions and find out what he really meant.

Also,
she was on seroquel for a few months, and it seemed to stabilize her manic episodes, but her depression increased dramatically. Her pdoc put her on 2 new meds, but she suffered alot of side effects immediately, so she is back on seroquel for now.
Her pdoc gave her the names of 4 other medications that she could try. they were Lithium, Zyprexa, Risperidone and Lamictal. With the side effects we found on these, she said she would prefer to stick with serequel for the time being.
She feels that it worked with stabilizing her manic episodes, and she realizes her depression got worse, but she feels it could have alot to do with the circumstances about the whole moving issue.

What are your thoughts on that? How do we distinguish between depression that is normal, triggered, or whatever..?
is it possible that the moving issue triggered the depression?
if it did, does that mean the meds are or are not working? or...?


adn again on the moving issue, I still don't know what to do...
I truly feel that even is she is stabilized, and if we are both happy or not, i dont see how I would ever agree to move to the city her mom lives in ...
do I tell her that?

I realize i sound like i am unwilling to compromise, but considering this situtaion, and the simple fact that I feel i cant be happy moving, isnt that enough? shouldnt we both enthusiastically agree on such a decision?

and again, if I feel i could never enthusiastically agree to it, do I tell her that now?
reason i ask is, this cloud about moving is draggin on and on and on and i dont think she is ever gonna understand or care about my reasons...

I took Zyprexa for a year to treat a bad case of paranoia and I do not remember having any side effects. It worked very well for me. Is Risperidone the active igredient in Risperdal(?). My wife takes that and it slowed her down quite a bit.

Lang, you're still guessing and floating theories you, and all of us here, aren't qualified to speak on. For God's sake, call her doctor yourself and get facts you can deal with. If nothing else, get it on record that you want to be there for tomorrow's visit and all future appointments.

Man, you say you know your WW is not rational, but you're not acting like you truly understand what you, yourself, are saying. I see you constantly sitting back and just waiting/accepting her latest tall tale. Is that smart?

Come on, Lang. You can't even HOPE for MB principles to work if your WW isn't stable and lucid. When are you going to get to work on this problem so you can begin working on recovering your marriage?

I did call her doctor. He said that he cannot discuss it with me without her consent. The most he would do for me is give me brochures.

Yes I know she is irrational etc... but she has a gift with choosing who she speaks to and listens to, so the only person telling her that is me. Her family is more or less supporting her thoughts that moving will be the answer to everything.

Lang...

I'm not tracking...why can't you go to her doc appt???

MAKE ARRANGEMENTS. Get a friend to watch the kids...do SOMETHING so you can show up with her and attend!!!

Don't let her play this...time to step up to the plate here.

The reason I couldn't go to today's apt is because she runs a daycare at home, and can't just have a friend watching all the kids. Either she or I need to be there. And she obviously didn't make an effort to change the apt to a time that we can both attend, so i asked her to get her pdoc to make an apt with me and to give him her consent for him to talk to me about things.

we'll see what happens after her apt today, but if she doesnt have him make an apt with me I will make sure the next apt is at a time where we can both attend.

Aside from all this stuff, I need some advice on how to handle a specific situation...

Here's the thing,
it is March 27th, and my wife and our kids are probably going to visit her mom for a few weeks or a month in June.
I recently took out a home improvment loan to re-paint the ceilings, walls, put new doors in, rip out exisiting flooring and replace with lamanent flooring, and a few other things...

My wife, who has Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, wants me to pretty much have someone help me do all of this over a cpl weekends.
I on the other had, want to wait until June when she and the kids are gone, so I can more or less tear everything out, move furniture downstairs etc... and do everything in order... ie: rip out the floor, then paint, then put floor in, put up trim etc....

The reason I do not want to do it over a couple weekends is because her OCD will drive me nutz. If i take a break, or stop working for any reason, she will glare at me and get upset. If i dont manage to finish something during the weekend, she will be on me as soon as i get hom after work during the week to continue/finish the job.
I much prefer to have no-one in the house, especially the kids, and i much prefer to take my time. after all, im the one doing the work right?

how do I explain this to her?

If i say i want to wait til her and the kids are gone, she asks "why" and says she doesnt understand, and gets somewhat upset.

her patience is, well, she doesnt have patience.

by the way,
if the trim isnt finsihed, or if anything for that matter isnt done, it will drive her crazy and she will drive me crazy to finish it.

best way to explain it to her in my mind is by telling her that we are different when it comes to this type of thing, in that she wants things done "now", whereas i want things done "right", and like to take my time.
waiting til she and the kids are gone seems like the perfect solution to me.

i can take my time, and she doesnt have to worry about it.
the problem is, can she wait a cpl months for the work to even begin

Lang,

I know what you are saying. My FWW is not OCD but acts much the same way.

She wanted an accent wall painted this weekend. We go out and get he paint. basically the wall turns a slight corner so a straight line is necessary. The wall will never be absolutely perfect because of the texture. So a little paint will bleed across the line.

I am bustin may hump to do this for her and she is nitpickig me.

For your situation I would put it off on the Kids, not her.

Say honey we have enough going on right now. I will be able to work more effectively if the kids arent' around.

Done finito.

well, i went home from work to watch the kids for her daycare so she could go to her apt. she seemed upset about the conversation i mentioned above about house renovations.
i asked her if she was upset, and she said "yes, im irritated about the house thing"
i said "ok" and went to the kitchen as she was on her way out. She then looked at me and said "OK? its ok that im irritated?"
I said "no, but i dont know what to do about it"
she huffed and puffed and said "well why cant we just do it, why do you have to wait until june? that makes no sense"
i told her that doing it right now is the way she wants to do it, not me.
then she said that she has been waiting for a long time for this flooring. i told her I knew that, and that I was getting the floor for her.

she huffed and puffed and left.

She doesnt at all appreciate that I am putting the flooring in that she wants, she doesn't appreciate the fact that i am compromising to do so as I do not even really want this new flooring, but can live with it if its what she wants.

all she cares about is the fact that i wont do it when she wants.



when she got back from her apt i asked how it went and she said "fine"

as I was walking out the door to go back to work she told me that I have an apt with her pdoc tommorrow night. So atleast she did that and now I can speak to her pdoc.

well, tonight is the night i get to meet alone with her pdoc. Her pdoc often speeds things along and tries to keep the appointments under about 15-20 minutes, so i need to be ready with any questions i have for him.

1:
My wife came back from a recent appointment with you and explained to me that you felt she would be able to get to almost 100% stability if she lived near her mother. She also said you told her that if she stayed here, it would take more medications and the best she would get to is about 75%. Can you explain that to me?

2:
The biggest issue within our marraige is the fact that my wife wants to live near her mom, and I do not want to move. There is no chance for compromise on this issue. I feel like she already realizes that I will not move, but chooses to hang it over my head and make us all miserable, then blame me for it. What are your thoughts on how I should handle this?

3:
Her OCD is still an issue. For example, last week she phoned me at work and actually expected me to leave work, go to the store, and run her home a bottle of ketchup because she had run out. I told her I couldnt and she became quiet and distant as if she was disappointed or upset. There are many situations similar to this, how do I deal with them? And, will this ever change?

4:
Our children are beginning to realize that my wife can explode out of nowhere over the smallest things. If I am removing the children from such situations, how do I explain to her why I am doing so? Do I tell her that I feel she is over reacting? how do i deal with her if she gets upset about that?

5:
Do you feel she would benefit from further therapy/counselling?

6:
I also recall her telling me something else from one of her last appointments. She told me that you had explained to her that it doesnt matter what or why she feels the way she feels about something, all that matters is that she feels that way...
To me, that sounds ridiculous. Can you explain?
How does this factor in to her OCD?
If it doesnt matter why she feels she wants something, does that mean I give in? or do i explain myself? ignore it??

7:
She is planning on visiting her mom for a month or 2 this summer. I truly beleive she wont last that long and will come back. I also beleive she may eventually say that she wasnt happy when she was there, but she will also say she would have been if I were there, and bring up the whole moving issue again. Should I, and if so, how do I put the moving thing behind us? In the past she has said she will stay but she also says she will just be miserable. Do I accept that? Or do i tell her it isnt acceptable? and if i tell her its not acceptable, what should I suggest she do about her unhappiness?

8:
Lastly, my wife often asks me why i want to come to these appointments. She feels I am trying to prove to her that her ilness is what makes her want to live near her mom. But in reality, i dont feel i need to prove anything to her.
She is reluctant to let me help her. How do i get around this?



any thoughts?

y thought is good luck, and I hope you get a chance to ask the things you want. I never get to lead the convo's where I want them to go when dealing with docs... so,

don't forget your list!

Don't say you "don't want to move.” Let him know it would be an economic disaster and give him the reasons why.

(a) No job there, no reason to expect you could get as good a job in the short term. Possibility you couldn't support your family there. Possibility you couldn't afford to pay him for past and future therapy for wife.

(b) Good job here where you have job stability and have a reasonable expectation of job advancement in the future.

(c) Established home here (for which you’re still paying), children settled among friends, good school, etc. Uprooting them unnecessary and counterproductive to their welfare.

(d) Loan on house for improvements is a liability, but there’s no expectation the house could be sold in a timely fashion

(e) Fill in extra reasons as applicable

Ask him how an economic disaster and a radical change in environment for the children is good for the family as a functioning unit.

BTW, be prepared to hear he hasn’t advocated very much at all of what your WW has relayed to you.

If you have gone already disregard if not.

Assume you are correct she will only be happy near her mom. What should we do if her mom moves a thousand miles away?

You know all the people my FWW wanted to move near are starting to consider moving away. To expensive to live there. LOL.

Good thing I didn't move 3,000 miles away to be near them I might be moving again soon.

What if I tell him that after lots of research, counselling etc... I am firm on this issue in that the pros/cons for the move clearly indicate that it is not the right thing to do for the family, and that I feel she is for some reason unable to see this...?

I think i should also tell him that our current counsellor isn't helping with respect to the marraige.
The counsellors last advice to her was to do what makers her happy. His last advice to me was to get a court order and protect myself and the children.

I might ask him if he thinks a new counsellor, with consent from my wife for the counsellor and him (pdoc) to communicate would be a good idea.
If he thinks it would be, i will ask him to suggest it to her as she wont listen to me.

Lang,

YOu can try anything you want. It seems as though you have a major problem though.

Two doctors now have told her what she wants to hear. So two telling her what she doesn't want to hear probably won't do much good.

I mean each of you can have an expert to point to. The first IC said... well the second says....

Right now she beleives what she believes. YOu have to make a decesion not base on trying to change her beliefs but on how you are going to act/react to her requests based on her beleifs.

I have been there. I now realize that not one doctor and we talked to about 5 or 6 IC/MC's was able to convince my FWW that moving near her family wasn't the answer,

Her family not being there for her etc finally convinced her of that.

Well I can't say yesterday went very well at all.

I went to the appointment with her pdoc.
He told me that as long as she perceives her unhappiness/stress as being caused by where she lives (environment), or lack of her family in that environment, it will continue to stress her and will continue to trigger episodes.
He ssuggested we wait 6 months and let him get her as stabalized as possible. But he did say he felt he wouldnt be able to get her to 100% here due to the environment issue.

So, I brought up cognitive-behavioural therapy. He told me that although it could help, he said the success rate of this therapy is very poor, and it is expensive.

I told him that I beleive medication alone is not going to change her thinking patterns, and he agreed.

he said that after 6 months of getting her stabilized, with or without thera[y, he said if things havent changed there is a good chance we will end up going our seperate ways.

By the end of the seesion, we agreed that the best course of action, considering there is a family/children involved, is to give the CB Therapy a try. But, problem is, it is up to her to do it.

So when i got home, i told her that she had to make a choice, and that is whether or not to go to the CB Therapy.

She said it wont help, and it makes no sence throwing away money for something that wont work.
I then said, but it might work... so then its owrth a try,, right?
she said no, she said the situation is simple. either she stays and is unhappy, or move and is happy.
she then, as usual, exploded. accusing ME of being controlling.

remember the flooring issue? im am getting flooring that she wants, but am not putting it in until summer when her and the kids are gone.
well... she views this as controlling I guess.

her exact words were
"It must be nice to have control over everything!!"
i responded "what do i control??"
She said "you control where we live, you control when we put the flooring in...

i stopped her right there and said, "see, that train of though is exactly why i beleive you need this therapy. you have just accused me of being controlling over something that I am doing soley for YOU because i am not doing it the way YOU want it done..

she interupted me and said..
"forget my flooring, put your stupid carpet in".... and she walked away.
we have not spoken since.
i am extremely upset.



by the way, i asked her pdoc for his honest opinion about something...
i asked him if he beleives that she will be happy if she moves. he siad, "i dont know, but you know her better than i do"

Lang,

Then it is up to you.

I mean I keep coming back to the same thing about her family moving.

This is a bad what if but I will what if it anyway.

What happens if her parents were to die?

If the only way for her to be happy is to be around her mom then what.

I can see your frustration but I can tell you my FWW didn't have bi polar but she saw me as the enemy the entire time she wanted to move back by her family.

Now she likes it here and never wants to leave. Nothing changed really except her perception and her seeing what is best for the real family.

Why not tell her to ask her parents to move to where the two of you live now?

It's just as fair as asking you to move there.

What's the issue? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

So what are your thoughts on this.