I have several pair that fit over my prescription glasses. Nothing all the "Elton John" or "Boy George" ish. But very large and geeky. Maybe I should get a pair with mirrors???

Wow, that would be some combo. Platform boots. Short shorts. Mirrored sunglasses. I love it.

Mrs. Hold would be appalled. Well, she would SAY she was appalled. Secretly, she might be impressed that I have it in me to be so bold.

Star is always telling me to engage in risky fun behavior. I think this qualifies. Maybe not technically in compliance with POJA. But trying to stay within POJA for the past 5 years hasn't exactly worked out for us. I am thinking of going for it.

Every time Mrs. Hold calls me on the phone, I can hear her unhappiness. It is painful to talk to her. I am sure she finds it painful to talk to me. I can hear her disappointment during the calls. Such emptiness. The lack of connection hurts as much as the lack of sex used to.

Hold, you sound like you are getting to the point where this is almost too much to take.

Hey, she finally realizes the truth. That she cannot fully USE you anymore for her:

1. Money she wants to blow
2. Vacation needs
3. Foot rubbing needs
4. Social partner (since you dont like to socialize with her)
5. Confidant and to unload her moods on you
6. Handy person to abuse when she wants to
7. Desire for a celebate marriage
8. Someone to put up with her, heavy and non motivated as she is


The good things is that changes have been made. She is working, a huge change. And she is unhappy slowly facing the truth. You are not hiding from her or trying to please her anymore or denying you two have problems. You are not pretending everything is alright. These are very good things. Thank you for not walking all over yourself and being honest with her!

Hold, your W's unhappiness, is this an everyday thing, or a temporary low?

Do you remember that Rocks in a River? They're making a difference. "Keep believing that they are, because they are." (((Hold)))

MA:
Yes, it is becoming unbearable.

Stella
I have no intention of going back to being a doormat.

EO

Pretty much all the time for the past few months.


I am not throwing any more rocks in the river. I tried that for 8 years. Got me nothing but heartache. At this point, she is going to have to start throwing rocks in my river. She shows no enthusiasm for doing that.

Just dont throw any rocks at each other! (you could toss some well written divorce papers at her by a process server!)

Hold, can you please, pretty please post a picture of you in your shorts and boots? Blur the face or cut off the head if you want. But we NEED to see this picture!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You know that we're all sorry that it's coming down to this for you. I know, myself, I had hoped that you could hold out until you reached your goal. It appears those graduations aren't going to come soon enough.

I know I talk a big game of trying to convince you to grab some life for yourself but given I have children I know how hard it would be if I had to make the choice to leave the mother of my kids. I don't know if I could do that to them. Somehow sticking tight and playing the martyr would seem the easier of the two options.

I just get this vibe that you're a ticking time bomb and if sticking around is going to be the best thing (in the long run) for everyone. I fear the fallout when you go off.

What do you think? Do you still have yourself together? If not, I think these desparate times call for some drastic measures ... don't you?

I still think you have some options available to you. The question is what options are you willing to follow through on?

OK, Hold, you threw me for a loop there. I wasn't up-to-date on your posts. The last I read, you were getting some new clients at work. Mrs. Hold was applying for a better job. You were feeling more confident. But after that last comment, I read back a few pages, and see you're contemplating divorce.

Hold, I think you need a big dose of LovingAnyway. Your life is awesome, yet don't focus your posts on that part. I see you throwing wheelbarrows full of rocks, even if they're unintentional.

Affection - I think I've heard you describe giving Mrs. Hold massages, and huggies with the kids

SF - ready, willing and able <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Conversation - We see every day how witty you are

RC - sounds like you do lots of cool stuff, like the walk with your son

O&H - you sound very O&H

PA - working out all the time, you look great, don'tcha

FS - a top EN for Mrs. Hold, and you excel at it. You know you do, no need to be modest. You probably gross and net more than 99% of the population.

DS - you've described how helpful you are, AND you arrange for the cleaning lady if I remember right

FC - another place where you truly shine!

Admiration - another top EN for Mrs. H, and you've described here over time how you've found many things to admire about her

When you're in a better mood, would you consider how many wheelbarrows of rocks Mrs. H is filling, too?

Hold, you know that I respect you enough not to try to talk you out of anything. As LA says, presence matters. The fact that you're still there tells me that it's not bad enough to leave yet. I'm just hoping to help you feel good about the choice you make today to get up, go to work, and go home.

Affection - I think I've heard you describe giving Mrs. Hold massages, and huggies with the kids

Used to. Note lately.


To her, a LB.


Maybe here. These days I hardly say a word to Mrs. Hold, besides talking about logistics and the kids. She wants to talk about the Bar Mitzvah, vacations, what kind of major gift I am going to get her for our anniversary, etc. I can't stand to talk to her about things that are going to cost us lots of money, so I hardly talk to her at all. I am almost certainly NOT meeting her need for Conversation.


I do stuff with the kids. Not with her. She keeps asking what we are going to do while the kids are away at camp. I am not willing to make any plans with her. We used to go out on date nights. We don't do that any more. We have not spent any time alone together since the kids went to Florida in December.

A few weeks ago when we visited family, the kids stayed over at my cousins house and Mrs. Hold and I were alone in a hotel room for 2 nights. I don't think we said half a dozen words to each other. The first night I went out drinking with my cousins and by the time I got back to the hotel Mrs. Hold was asleep. I got up early the next morning to do some work on the hotel computer. The next night we went back to the room together and each read a book in bed. Then I got up early and went out to the lobby to surf the net so I wouldn't be there when she got up. You know it is bad when I am trying to find ways to NOT be around when Mrs. Hold might be interested in sex!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />


Are you serious? I am very O&H here. At home, I am a walking gas bag of BS. I tell the kids how beautiful and wonderful she is, in front of her and at times and places she can overhear. I am supportive and positive about her decisions (she quit her job and got another job that starts next week). I don't complain about her weight or our sex life. I was O&H while we were doing MC. Since we stopped MC, I have stopped O&H.


I must admit that she doesn't find me physically repulsive. Although she does give me the death gaze when I strike weightlifter poses with my shirt off.


It doesn't matter how much I make compared to the average American. It only matters what I make compared to what Mrs. Hold feels she needs. She feels she needs far more than I provide. She hates our house. Thinks it is a dump. She hates that we do not have enough money to buy her the clothes and car and jewelry she wants. Or to go on fancy vacations. I am in no way shape or form even coming close to meeting her need for FS.


Yes, she still has the cleaning lady. But she has a long list of chores that I have not completed to her satisfaction. I am sure I get failing marks at DS.


Yes, she admits I am a good dad.


Yes, it is a top need for her. And in her eyes (which are the only ones that matter), I fail miserably. She tells me frequently that I do not appreciate all she does for us. She complains bitterly that I do not make her feel wanted. I used to admire many things about her, and tell he that constantly. I am sure it is something she found attractive about me. As with many other "rocks in the river", that is something I no longer do much of.


The only rocks Mrs. Hold is depositing is being willing to put up with my schedule when I have to work late. She doesn't complain that I am never home for dinner during the week. She doesn't complain when I announce I won't be home, even if that means more work for her driving the kids to and from their activities. I do appreciate that she makes my work schedule more convenient.

But we don't share RC or SF or O&H. Without the SF, I consider her attempts at Conversation and Admiration insulting LBs. I don't want to hear how she thinks I am attractive if she won't back up the words with action. And I don't believe her when she says I am doing OK at work when every other sentence out of her mouth is either complaining what a dump we live in or commenting how much she wishes we lived in one of the bigger houses we pass as we drive through town. And as for PA, well, at least she has cut back on scratching oozing sores into her forehead.

I think the lack of O&H hurts alot. I hate living this double life. I don't want to go home, because she is going to be there and I don't want to have to deal with her.

Also, things at work are problematic. I have fallen off the pace to make my hours for the last few months. And many days I don't seem to be able to motivate myself to do any work. I am sabotaging big time, and I can't seem to stop myself. Hopefully the walk this weekend, and a chance to do some gardening (we have been out and about and I haven't had a chance to work outside in a month), will help settle my mood. With a big May and June I should be able to get close enough that they will give me something.

Kathi:

Yes, I will find a way to post pictures. Presumably I can put them up on Flickr or Ofoto or some other site which does not reveal my identity.

My plan now is to get through the Bar Mitzvah and then talk to her about divorce while the kids are in Florida over Christmas break. That way Mrs. Hold and I can hash things out between us without distraction.

I am trying to decide how to behave between now and then. Which causes me less pain? Engaging with her (because that is who I want to be) and then dropping the bomb "out of the blue"? Or being withdrawn (because that cuts down on the feelings of rejection) and finally addressing what will by then have become obvious? I predict the votes here will be in favor of acting in accordance with my true nature regardless of how Mrs. Hold may or may not react. Not sure I am brave enough to take on that much pain. Then again, maybe it is good practice for how much it is going to hurt to finally take action to end this miserable pairing.

Hold,

FWIW (and as someone who really almost never recommends or encourages divorce), I think your plan is a good one.

That is a great time to talk to her.

I don't think you should adjust your behavior now for what you think will make it easier/better for her. I don't think ANYTHING is going to make it easeier for her.

Just be yourself as yu have been.


((((hold)))))

Trust me, I am not trying to make it easier for her. I am trying to make it easier for me. I can't decide what that is.

Be nice / sweet / romantic and engage with her because that is who I want to be. Even if it hurts when she does not react as I wish?

Or withdraw and "protect" myself from rejection. Even though that is not my nature?


That is the problem. I have not been myself. Not for a long time. I don't like who I am today. Then again, I didn't like the way I felt when I was being "me" in the past. I really want to be someone else. Someone I have never been before. I want to be friendly and caring and warm. But not a doormat. And not feel so hurt when I get rejected.

I think I can be friendly while not being a doormat. But I don't know if I can do that and not feel crushed by the rejection. In the past, the desire to avoid rejection lead me to be a doormat. Won't go back to being a doormat. But I don't have any mechanism for dealing with the rejection. Well, except for plunging into depression and becoming unproductive at work. I need a HEALTHY coping mechanism.

Maybe I can find a cheaper place to play paintball. At $50 per session, I can't afford to go very often.

Anyway, thanks for your support. I still shake when I think about what I am thuinking about. Hopefully I will shake less over time.

Be who you want to be. You cannot control how she feels. You can control how you act, and in the long run acting the way you wish to be is the better course. And, I doubt very much that your announcement will be out if the blue...even if she claims it is. She knows you are not happy.

Kathi

Yeah, I guess trying to be me is the better choice.

Today Mrs. Hold called and told me how unhappy she is. She asked me if I had noticed. I guess that shows how little Conversation, RC and O&H we have had lately - that she wasn't sure whether I noticed. Of course I have noticed that she has been snapping at me and snapping at the kids and complaining of being tired and headachey and unfulfilled. I told her that everyone is entitled to be out of sorts on occassion. I bit back "I just wish there were some occassions when you were not out of sorts."

So I am going to be brave and be me (without being a doormat and without spending gobs of money trying to win her affection). And she can wonder why I am being so friendly. And I'll tell her that is just how I am. And she will probably live with the illusion that somehow we are OK. But it doesn't matter how she reacts. I am going to be me.

Everyone at work is shocked that I am going to wear the boots and the outfit on Sunday. They have mostly known the "turtle in his shell" me. They are reacting positively to the more fun me. I need to be that way more often.

Sounds like openness and honesty to me. But in some ways I'm glad you were kind o biting, and not the normal 'doormat' asking whats wrong and if there is any thing you could do..
She needs to figure out what to do..although I am surprised you haven't learned to ask her what she plans to do about it..when she makes comments like these..

That would be a healthy boundary, placing the cure in her own hands while not taking it on yourself or feeling guilty that your being sharp and biting when you speak to her.

maybe say something like..

yes, I've noticed, so what do you think you can do so that you are not so unhappy? Or asking if she's considered counseling or maybe even working out?

How about saying something like this..

I'm sorry your so unhappy, what do you think would make you feel happy? of course spending lots of money, but that is not an option at this point and time, so what OTHER things would make you happy? She will probably answer she doesn't know...so you could at that point ask her "maybe she could explore that and figure out what other things would actually make her happy." And suggest that maybe going to a counselor which would give her someone to else to talk to and bounce ideas off of that may be different than what you can offer,
Like lots of really fun and exciting sex, in new places.

She may like the counseling idea better!!! LOL

This should be a great weekend!

Tonight S12 and I are going to an NBA playoff game. S12 has a floor to ceiling [censored] poster of one of the players on his wall, so the idea of being able to see that player live during the playoffs is causing S12's head to explode.

Tomorrow I am gardening. And it is raining today, so tomorrow the ground shold be nice and soft for digging holes and pulling up weeds and pricker vines.

And of course Sunday is the walk.

Lots of fun activities. None of which involve Mrs. Hold (except that she will be working the registration table at the walk).