I wrote with some haste, CZ. Remember, your wife's attitude about these things is temporary. The only question is whether or not her insanity will go away soon enough for your marriage to survive. You don't have much say in things right now, but you do get to decide what "soon enough" means.

Unfortunaley, all of the rationalization that I keep coming up with is falling short for me.I keep thinking, "maybe I'm reading things into it". "Maybe I'm overreacting". But, I know what I'm seeing. And I'm seeing someone that has a secret. My W's stomach was upset all night tonight. When I tried to lay down next to her to watch some tv, she wanted me to go away. Said I was making her nervous. So, I hink she is trying to downplay any real feelings. She cringed when I kised her on the sheek and told her goodnight. So, I'm starting to thing that all of this "hands off" reaction on her part is a function of guilt. I'm thinking of cofronting her before she goes tomorrow. Let her know that I know something is up, and invite her to spend the day with her & my daugher (we already have plans), or let her make the choice to go on this trip. But, also let her know that the decision to do that could influence everything. Very dramatic, yet very real.

Hi Zimm,

I feel for ya buddy. I'm divided about this: On one hand, I'd want to stop this EA from escalating into a PA, on the other you would need to confront her with proof of some kind to prevent her from going on this trip.

Maybe you and your daughter surprise her by going to the casino as well and hook up with her so that she doesn't have the chance to be alone with the OP? She'd be pissed, but you would have at least prevented her from getting into a PA. Just say you thought a family holiday was overdue and you wanted to surprise her? That's the best I can think of at the moment..

Hey Zimm,
Checking to see how you are doing. Whatever the situation with your W is, EA, PA, false alarm...are you taking care of your end of things? I mean eliminating LoveBuster behaviors that you display, and meeting her emotional needs?

You are not going to be able to make her do anything and you are not going to be able to stop her from doing something she thinks she wants (EA, PA). What you CAN do though is make yourself an attractive option and your marriage an attractive option.

My take, based on the information you presented is that this is an EA and this casino trip nmay have been "the night". Now this would would be the worst case scenario for you, but let's say it was "the night". What does that mean to you? What do you want to do? What do you want to do for your daughter? I mean, affair or not, the way your wife is treating you at this time is not acceptable and would not be something that I would allow in my life. I would want change. You decide what you want and then put together a plan to achieve it. No real mention of PlanA or PlanB/D in your thread, but your course depends on your decision. Tell the board what you want for yourself and the experts here can help you formulate a plan.

Thanks for the response GF. I think that puts things into perspective a bit. What do I want? I want to save my marriage. What I don't want however, is to live the way that I am living now. I have read about Plan A on these boards for the last couple of weeks, and for the last several days, I have been trying very hard to live that way. Trying to be supportive, understanding where my shortcomings and faults that lead to this situation might be, and working to make sure that I am not falling into the same old patterns & habits. While I have been doing that, I feel my W pulling away from me even more. She's become emotionally distant, not allowing herself one smidgen of compassion or feeling toward me. I can tell that she is stressed. I'm guessing that some of her anger toward me is actually guilt. She's able to put on a good game of business as usual, but her actual behavior suggests otherwise. Has been very focused on appearance lately..last week had new nails put on, her hair has become a big deal suddenly. She has been clothes shopping several times in the last week or two, with the most recent one being yesterday. My wife has always worn sports bras for comfort, certanly not sexy at all. Yesterday she came home with a bag of clothes that included 4 new bras, and I think a new pair of panties she's wearing today. So, putting all of this together....the sudden I love you but I'm not in love with you don't know what I want speech, the odd behaviors with the focus on appearance, her seeming lack of compassion toward me that borders on downright hostility, and then of course, the emails & computer behavior that i think that I'm seeing have lead me to think that this is what is going on. I think that I doubt myself from time to time because I have nothing concrete to back me up with, and I fall into the trap of thinking that I am imagining things. I can't deny what my gut is telling me. I know that this "guy" is someone that she has never met before, or at least that's the impression I'm under. I know that she has a working relationship with him and that he lives several states away. So, there's a part of me that keeps coming back to thinking that I'm crazy, why would my seemingly normal wife of 13 years be falling for a guy that she's probably only spoken with on the phone & emailed during working hours that lives a few states away. And, this is a work sponsored trip that she's going on today, so it isn't as if this is some sort of fib so she can drive 4 hours to meet someone. And all of those facts keep leading me in the circle that I'm in. There's the eveidence that I have in my mind that conflicts with the logic of the situation. On the one hand, I see her acting this way and I keep progressing it in my mind, but then I'll be confused because she is still talking about the future with us, i.e. finances, future plans, etc. She has an appointment with a counselor next Saturday.

Being somewhat keyed up on this trip, and probably against my better judgement, I said something to her this morning before she left. Told her that I was skptical of the trip, and that I felt that she was going there to meet someone. She of course got angry and told me that this was a work trip and she hasn't been anywhere in 13 years. I told her not to make a mistake. Then she left mad, and I'm here this morning wondering what to do.

As far as me...I don't want to live this way. I love her, but will not chase her down to seek her love and allow her to sit on the fence. There's a tremendous amount at stake here, the same as any situation. Daughter, house, dreams, goals,plans, etc. I'm not willing to toss that away and I don't know that she is either. But, I know that I cannot continue to just hang out and let her call the shots as to when she feels like getting around to working this out either.

I'll stop here and let someone weigh in.

The signs as you've given them suggest that your (W?)W is going to use that trip to turn her EA into a PA. You basically have two options open to you:

1. Do something to prevent the A from progressing to a PA

2. Deal with the results of whatever's happened after she returns (if she returns).


IMO going with the first option is much better than going with the second. D's suggestion of you and DD joining her is a possible option - it might make her mad, but it will certainly interfere in her plans.

Me, if I couldn't go on the trip or otherwise interfere in her plans, I'd probably state one of my personal boundaries (I'm not prepared to continue a relationship with a dishonest and adulterous person), then hire a PI or otherwise get someone else to keep an eye on her while she's away. If I find out that she has crossed my boundary, her bags will be on the doorstep when she returns and she'll soon find out that her A's been exposed to her office, her family, my family, and anyone else I think can influence the A.

Thing is, don't let your fear of your M coming to an end prevent you from taking actions that might actually prevent that from happening. I sense that fear in your last paragraph - that fear can paralyze you from taking the steps that need to be taken.

She's already on her way there, so there's nothing I can do to stop it at this point. When I confronted her this morning, she got angry and told me that this is a "work trip, with work people. I haven't been anywhere in 13 years", pretty much trying to insinuate that I must be out of my mind for suggesting that she may be meeting someone. Thing is, I don't know "for sure" that she is. I feel a little paralyzed by the situation. I just don't have anything concrete. I know what I've seen, and I know how I feel.

I would just figure that she is having an EA, and not unopposed to making it a PA.

At this point, you could show up at the casino, which might turn ugly. Or you could grap her panties when she returns and get a kit to do a semen test. That way you might find out something.

Your wife's attitude says it all to me.

Right. Her attitude speaks volumes. Do I just sit tight here and see what happens? Sitting tight is proving to be pretty difficult. What if I never get the hard evidence?

I know how hard it is. I went crazy trying to catch my ex, and it took me over 6 months. He continued telling me I was crazy.

The good thing for you is that he lives so far away.

Do you think I blew it this morning with the confrontation? I mean, she knows at this point that I know something is up. Do you think that might giver her pause to think about what she's doing or simply drive her further into it?

CZ, it doesn't matter very much. You can't drive her into anything. You're not driving. She's grabbed the wheel. She's seized all the power.

Scale of 1-10 how good of a partner have you been?

If your W comes back from this trip having made a major decision or extremely distant, you can bet your life she's having an affair.

But don't bother accusing her without evidence. She'll deny it and call you controlling, manipulative, suspicious, non-trusting, blah blah blah.

Soon enough she'll get caught or admit it.

I understand that she has the power in this right now, whcih is frustrating. Don't know that I could rate myself as a partner on a scale of 1-10. Have I been the best? Probably not. The worst? Certainly not. I think that our lives had just gotten overwhelmed with obligation and responsibility. She had drifted from me emotionally some time ago but carried on as though everything was fine. I think I may have referenced that fact in another post. I always thought of my role as a provider and I think that I let her shoulder too much of the burden on other fronts. That I am guilty of. I have been working full in one capactiy or another and going to school full time for the last 4 years. We are now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel on that now, as I'm finally graduating this summer. So, I think that I paid attention to work & school, and probably let her take care of many other domestic issues too much. That's my fault, and I need to work on that. However, I always thought that we had a decent realtionship, we laughed, had a good time, shared similar views on life, parenting, etc. So, I think I was willing to accept that she was a little cool, not crazy in love, over the course of the realtionship. And I think that it bothered her to feel that way, because she knew that I cared for her pretty deeply.

As far as the suspected A. This is tearing me up today. Specualting that she cold be in the sack with another guy is making me physically ill. I can barely function mentally. I hate feeling this way.

Hi Zimm,

Its common in the early stages of learning about your spouses' affair to shoulder some of the blame. Doesn't help that in their fogged-out state, the WS's try to lay all the blame for the ruined marriage squarely on your shoulders "You didn't do this, or that", "We fell out of love", "you didn't do enough".. anything, but that THEY chose to make the decision to have the affair.

Something I learned early on helped me to cope a little better, can't give credit to the person who came up with it cause I forgot, but was someone on MB. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"You are responsible for 50% of the STATE of your marriage, but 0% responsible for his/her affair"

What's important is to work on your 50% and realize that you can't change her 50% of it, only she can. So stop beating yourself up about it cause it's not your fault if she gets herself into an affair!

Thanks Dev. I understand. I found myself as the day progressed yesterday becoming less desparate feeling and more angry. But, a healthy angry. A standing up for myself type of angry. I don't deserve this, and I don't have to live like this if I choose not to.

W came home with a plausible story of events of the day. Of course, I didn't exactly expect to hear that "yes, I went there to meet someone else" from her either. I kind of believed her story of events. However, one thing that has not surfaced yet is the underwear she was wearing yesterday. If it's no big deal, then it should just wind up in the hamper, right?

We'll see if it appears in there this evening. I've got a funny feeling it won't. Should it not wind up in there, do I have the right to confront? Or, do I sit back and see if other evidence surfaces?

Thanks.

Zimm,

Sorry to hear. Must have been a terrible weekend for you.

Personally I would stay low key if you hope to get to the point of undeniable knowledge. The more suspicious you seem, the deeper and more guarded she will get.

You have numerous red flags, just no hard evidence. You just need to pull the trigger to gain the hard evidence that you need to quit second guessing what you already suspect.

Do you deserve to know?

Zimm,
Please find the "Snooping 101" and other "Getting Started for betrayed spouses" threads. Things I did were:
1)Install Spector Spyware on WW PC, copies all emails, keylogs , IM, and takes screenshots every 5 seconds or so.
2) monitor cell records on online billing tool
3)purchase voice activated recorders and bugged the house and her car
4)hired a PI (expensive)
5)bought a real-time GPS tracker because the PI was so expensive, allowed me to cut back on PI time.

All that and I still had only "circumstantial" evidence. When i confronted her, I told her I knoew unequivocally that she was having an affair, but would not reveal anything about how much I knew because it was so flimsy. So play your cards close to you vest and do not confront until you have good evidence as it will just drive her further underground. My WW found one of my bugs when i ddi not have it deployed and i was kind of forced to confront prematurely.

Here's the link

SPYING 101

Wow, missing underwear!! Are you sure SHE doesn't have a keylogger on the computer?

No, I don't think that she does. I don't know that she's that savvy. Always possible, but unlikely. She does know however that I am that savvy, so her actions may be somewhat reserved on the home computer. Like I said, it's a cat & mouse game that's going on.

We'll see what happens this evening. The underwear thing really bothers me, and while I don't have any "solid" proof, that could be something that I question. My instincts tell me to wait and see, but my logic tells me to confront. Why hide underwear? Only a couple reasons I can think of.