If she moves she would not be able to stop making mortgage payments. You could go to a judge and put a quick end to that nonsense.

Either way, you have no reason to move. If she is "stressful" she needs to handle that on her own. Her family should not have to pay for her "stress." She should try Midol, that always helps with my "stress."


She sounds like she is having an affair, which would explain why she is not interested in the marriage. I would do some sleuthing and get to the bottom of that.

If she really doesn't want to stay in the marriage, let her act on that feeling. The onus is all on her to act. Just let her know you are not interested in a divorce and won't cooperate in any such schemes.


It isn't intended to help your marriage, it is intended to con you into leaving your home so she can have some fun. She is trying to manipulate you.

Hi Zimm,

You and I are in pretty much the same boat. Only in our case, we've yet to buy a place of our own but have been living in this rented apartment we called home for the last 3+ years. When the decision came, I told her if she wanted to leave, I was staying put. I didn't think I could afford paying the rental, utilities etc by myself, but after doing some calculations and reducing costs, I think I can get by.

You mentioned that you couldn't afford the paying for the house on your own -can she, if you moved out and stop contributing your part?

She told me the same exact things -wanted to be free and single and she's gone for a month for a 'trial separation', and ML is right -don't move! Edit: unless you really really have to.

Zimm, do you have a keylogger on her computer? What other sleuthing methods are you using? Does she use instant messaging?

I don't think she is having an A...yet, but obviously, she has already decided that it was appropriate to go meet someone. So, clearly, she is looking I would think. I have already done a considerable amount of sletuhing and can't really come up with a smoking gun necessariy. Like I mentioned, I do believe her when she says that she's done with the marriage, and I don't think that there's much chance in saving it at this point.

I don't really see what my moving out would do other than give her the room she needs to do whatever it is that she's doing, dispace me & disrupt my life, and put me in a potential legal problem. What do you think I should suggest at this point? Then, what's the time fram for this separation and who sets that? Either one of us moving will put the other in financial straights. Plus, we do have our daughter to consider here, and her mom is very imporatant to her. I'm sure it would be a shock to her if Mom moves out for awhile. But then again, I guess it's going to be a shock to her when Mom & dad get divorced. I don't want to get wimpy on all of you, but I am getting fairly desparate at this point.

CZ, she is either having an affair or trying to have an affair. You just need to get this evidence. I do think you should put a keylogger on her computer and wonder why you haven't done this yet?

I would suggest this first step, because you can't do anything until you find out what is really happening. You are not getting the full story, I do know that.

And seperation is never a good idea. I wouldn't even entertain that idea.


Then why isn't she gone? I am sure she might feel that way today, but with most WS', they don't know how they feel from day to day, so you can't take what they say seriously. I wouldn't let her words distract you from uncovering the truth. Getting to the truth will help you save your marriage if it can be saved.

Talked to W about proposed separation. Here are the responses from her:

1. Want to see what it's like to be alone. Maybe I will see that not having you here is difficult when I'm handling everything.

2. What if I made a boo-boo (yes, boo-boo) and I overreacted?

My Responses:

1. I don't know that a separation makes sense. You've already told me in no uncertain terms you were "done". Why not just end this peacefuly if it's really over?

2. Then, if you have a doubt, let's get into some aggressive counseling.

Her response to that? No, we just need to figure soemthing out.
Also, finding some questionable email content with a new guy. Kind of thinking that it's time to let her decide to file if that's what she wants....with consequences. Any suggestions?

Staring to think that I'm getting played here, big time!

Is there a keylogger on her computer, Zimm?

Yes, you are being played and I would let her know that if she wants to seperate then she needs to do the moving. And without your child. Telling her that you won't cooperate with her destructive scheme will wake her up a little bit.

Secondly, it sounds to me like she is trolling for studs on the internst. Get a keylogger on there, find out what she is doing and then get it all out on the table. I would have a good plan in place, such as marriage counseling with someone who is EXPERIENCED with this, namely Steve Harley. Your W has fallen out of love with you and he can give her hope that she can fall back in love with you.

Do you have the Harley books? The ones I think you would benefit from the most are Surviving an Affair and Fall in Love, Stay in Love. You can buy them cheap, with fast, cheap shipping on this website.

But first, GET THAT KEYLOGGER, friend!! keylogger, keylogger, keylogger, keylogger. Go to Spectorpro.com and download spectorpro and start saving the logs.


She doesn't need your permission to file. If she wants to file, you can't stop her. I would never bring up divorce with her. If she does bring up divorce or seperation, simply tell her won't cooperate. You won't move and you won't allow your DD to be taken from her home.

This is far from over, CZ, you have many opportunities here before you even think about ending your marriage. But the first step is that keylogger!! Get that!

DIABUSE her of this notion that you are going anywhere! Tell her NOW! Not addressing this only gives life to her little fantasy. Burst that balloon NOW.

If she wants to be single, she must know that she has to move and she will not be taking anything other than personal effects unless she has a court order and a sheriff with a BIG GUN. ZIMM! She is fantasizing about you being GONE and being able to pursue her affair from the uninterrupted comfort of her home. THROW water on this fantasy now, CZ!

Say it sweetly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks ML. By the way...I do have a K.L installed and it's been quite revealing so far, but only little bits & pieces that are easily defendable by her. I keep hoping to gain more info soon as I think that the quicker I can stop this in it's tracks the more likely it is that I can save it. It's clear to me that I'm dealing with 2 different people here. There's the conflicted, not sure if this is a good idea part of her. Then there's the full steam ahead, I'm done with the M and want nothing to do with working it out part of her.

I will heed your advice. My moving out in this case only allows her to not have to give up a thing and further explore her little fantasy life that she's creating. Hoping to gain enough soon to do a full exposure but tat gets a little tricky in that there's nothing that's happened...yet.

Zimm, are you able to see both sides of chat conversations on your keylogger?

I think your best bet is to gather information and then confront her with it FIRST, before you expose. That may be enough. And when you do confront her, I wouldn't ask her if she is doing something, but TELL HER YOU KNOW. That way you skip over the denial part. You don't need her confession to know the truth, in other words.

What other ways can you find out the truth? Do you think she might have a secret cell phone?

Did you see what I said about disabusing her of the notion that it will be you who moves? This is really important that she understand that her little fantasy cannot be fulfilled as she imagines. Telling her it won't be YOU who moves will inject a much needed dose of reality that will make her think twice.

Also, if y'all are using the same computer, you might want to log out and erase the history when you leave here. It would be a disaster to bring her now.

What I'm able to see are emails that are almost written in code. There was the first set of cute, but not incriminating emails to one guy whom she went on the casino trip to meet. They met, he ran from her. However, what I'm seeing now are emails from the guy that "consoled" her at the casino after being brushed off. I haven't been able to see full context of conversations, but she is clearly telling him that she is moving on from M. Then there was something about her being jealous that he's out having fun, but her time will come soon. There was something else that suggested that he drive in tomorrow. And that last message was something about rigormortis setting in on his part which I'm assuming that is "code" for stiff...if you know what I mean. She responded by saying that she thinks that's a good thing and she's very good at fixing things. Now, this is another out of state guy, so in her mind at least, I think it's safer for her to exist in the fantasy stage because of the distance. I think she is probably looking to act on this one now...so it's almost as though she is desparate to get together with someone...anyone. As if she is thinking in this irrational way of divorce / apartment / fractured child isn't the reality of splitting up, but secret affair and independent lifestyle is going to be the reality. We both know that she's wrong about that, but man, she is in full out end the M mode so she can pursue something like that it seems. I do make sure to delete history etc. from here.

CZ, I think you need a better keylogger. You need a keylogger that can record chat conversations, because I suspect this is where the bulk of the conversations take place. I don't think you are getting the whole story through these emails.

A good keylogger will record both sides of chats and will record every stroke she makes. There has to be more here, and I think a good keylogger will dig that out.

You can download a good keylogger now and have it working in 10 minutes.


What is your plan for this? Can you follow her?

Where is she meeting these guys?

The KL I have is actually pretty good. It's a bit more complicated in that what I am seeing are emails that are happening at her work, so when she comes home and "works", she will usually pull one of her cute emails up and look at it, so I have no way of seeing the full pic. unles she scrolls the email and I can get more context.

These are people from work, but the company she works for has multiple locations. So...she works with these guys in an indirect way. Doesn't see them everyday but is in communication as it's part of her reponsibilty to work with them

So these are COWORKERS??? OMG. **thud**

She has lost her mind, CZ. Has she been through menopause?

What kind of industry does she work where she is able to TROLL for guys in the coworker pool without absolutely destroying her career?

If you have a keylogger installed, can't you get her email password so that you can log into her email directly?

Yes...well menopause I think is part of the issue here. She's about to turn 51, the change is happening...new job where she is making more money than she ever has before, and conceivably support herself. Wanting and getting some attention (although she is 51 she could easily pass for 41). And here we are. These aren't just coworkers, these are people that she's maybe met once. Pretty unbleievable. This has all occurred over a 3 week period. 4 weeks ago, if you would have asked me if this were ever possible, I would have told you no way. of course, now according to her, the whole 13 yrs. has been one big farce...never been happy the entire time. Was just putting herself on the backburner as we rasied our child.

The problem is that she is risking her career by her inappropriate behavior. Word gets around about women who are trolling at work. Even if the contact isn't close, gossip speads quickly.

Did the panties ever turn up?

Zimm, I suspect there is much more to the story here than meets the eye. For example, SOMETHING has happened that has put her in this state of mind and the only thing i can think of is an affair. Perhaps she was having an affair that fell through and now she is seeking to supplant it with another?

All of her rantings about being unhappy for 13 yrs is nothing more than CLASSIC WS fogbabble. They rewrite history in order justify the unjustifiable.

As far as her behavior at work, I find it astonishing she would conduct herself this way at work. Like believer stated, she is ruining her career. Women can't act trashy at work like that and survive for long. She will be hated by women and disrespected by men. It is the kiss of death for any woman's career. And she is well old enough to know better.

zimm, i think your best bet is to gather some more evidence and sit her down and have a heart to heart with her. Tell her that you know she is catting around at work and chasing men. Tell her you know something is very wrong with her and you want to get her some help. I think getting all your cards out on the table will move this forward. But, I suspect something has happened in the past, ie: affair, that has brought her to this strange place.

you mentioned earlier that she has invited some guy to come to town tomorrow. Are you planning on having her followed?