Thinking out loud here regarding the confrontation. Just noticed on her cell bill that she had a 20 min. conversation on Tuesday with someone while I was out. Can't see the details on the number. This is also the same evening I was out that I discovered the email that described the "uncomfortable" encounter at the casino. Who knows who or what that conversation was regarding, but I would have to throw it into the "mix" since she is now deleting her call history on her phone.

I think that I already have what I need as it is. Don't know that there is much left to find out. Kind of outlining my confrontation with her in my mind. I am adamant that I will be calm, cool, witohut anger, won't drift and babble, and be as factual as possible.

I'm thinking of beginning the conversation by letting her know that I do love her, I do want things to work out, that I recognize that my actions & behavior contributed to our M getting to this state. I will not accept all of the blame. I will also let her know that I am willing, ready, and able to be the best ME I can be for her, and will meet her needs if she communicates to me what those needs are. I will stress to her that our daughter depends on us to be open and honest, and I believe that we need to work on this and give it an honest try.

After stating that, I will then let her know that I KNOW what is going on. I won't let her know how, but I'm assuming that she will figure it out pretty quickly. I'm going to let her know that I am hurt by her decision to pursue something like this, as I believe that it is irresponsible and reckless and putting All of us on a path to devastation. My boundaries are that all of the contact stop immediately. I will not live a liestyle where she has decided that she is single now and pursues contact with other men. If that's what she has decided to do, then she will need to find another place to live. I'm going to ask her to, if she has any regard at all, please understand that her decisions don't just impact me, they impact the entire family. I'm also going to ask her to recognize that she has a pattern of this behavior, and that she KNOWS that this is not proper.

Any thoughts?

I haven't been able to approach her with anything, let alone ask her to fill out an EN questionaire.

BTW...should I confront prior to the counseling visit or after? My guess is that she will go to the counselor and probably only divulge whatever she wants him to hear. More than likely will come home feeling as though she is absolutely correct with how she feels.

I think you just answered your own question. You already know you need to confront her now you are just trying to buy time and it is not helping your sitch.

Zimm,

That sounds like a decent strategy to me.

Remember tone is almost important -- if not equally important -- as the words you choose. Like you said, calm, cool etc. Also confident and resolute. No anger, and no whining/pleading either.

Don't assume she'll figure out how you know what you know. Her mind will be racing. Do not tell her how you know, no matter what. Repeat "It doesn't matter how I know."

Use those "I" statements. As in "I know our relationship can be great. Here's what I'm willing to do... Here's what I need from you."

I'd drop the part where your planning to tell her that she's being reckless and irresponsible, or whatever. You're not her dad. One sentence that sounds like judgement or a lecture... and that's all she'll focus on... she won't even hear the rest.

You might also tell her that you've been doing some research into failed relationships. And most experts agree that where there was once love an passion, it can be rekindled, of both parties are willing to put in some effort. She has already tried the cut bait and run approach at least once before... and 13 years later... she's right back where she started... only with a different guy and a child. Why not try a differnt route this time. Ask her to give you a specific amount of time... say 6 months... to start to turn things around. If things work out, it would be the best for everyone, not the least of whom, your daughter. If things don't improve, she's free to pursue her single life. What does she have to lose.

Also, make sure your ready and able to enforce any boundary you draw. Like, if your boundary is that she will have to move out if she doesn't stop trying to date other men... how are you going to enforce that? If your at all wishy-washy, game over.

Yes, do it before her counseling session. In fact, do it as soon as possible. My opinion: If 'ol "Ed" had taken a liking to her, she'd be gone already. She likes to have one lined up before she leaves the one she's with. Make your move before she has a chance to hit on another guy... who takes her up on her offer.

Finally, I for one believe that people really can change, no matter what their prior patters were. One of the most helpful peole to me on this site has been a recovering sex addict who had MULTIPLE affairs. If he can change, so can your wife. IF she wants to.

--SC

Thanks SC. I guess that I thought about the irresponsible / reckless aspect for effect. Because, anyone that gets on a bus to travel 4 hours to meet someone they have never seen before...thinking that a possibility of sex might exist. Well, that's pretty reckless in my book. And, it is a decision that not only effects me, but also effects our child.

Zimm...you can still read the questionairre and attempt to answer it on your wife's behalf. What do you THINK her EN's are? And how are you looking to meet them?

Something to consider.



Be certian you really want her to move out before you make that statement. You will be unable to Plan A as effectively if she is not living under the same roof.

Her actions will be difficult to monitor if she moves.

This maybe what she wants in her current state of mind.

Regarding the cellphone... Who's name is it in, can you access the call details online?

No arguement here, Zimm. I never said you were "wrong". I just think it would be a strategical error to say it to her.

Remember, she's probably been pretty miserable for awhile. Which is NOT your fault. But she's been stuffing it down for a long time... and now it has exploded inside her... and she's bleeding all over the place. And she's thrashing around trying to find some relief from the pain. She doesn't need you to berate her for bleeding on the carpet. She already knows it. But if YOU point it out, you're the insensitive, judgemental, bad guy. Don't put yourself in that position. Instead, be the loving, compasionate hero who reaches out and offers to stop the bleeding.

That makes perfect sense. I'm almost nervous about it at this point because I have so many thoughts running through my mind that I'm not sure which ones will come out. My wife has a way of trying to intimidate during these conversations by trying to gee me to "hurry up and spit it out". It's a defense mechanism for her, but it does fluster me.

You're a good writer. Put it in a letter. Even post the letter here for feedback in you want.

When it's good to go... hand it to her. Stand there while she reads it. Wait for a response.

Thanks everyone. I guess the next question I have is about exposure in this case. I know the name of the guy that she went to meet that brushed her off. I have his cell #, along with email add. I also have email add's for all supervisors, HR, etc. From what I can tell, he basically avoided her like she had the plague...wanted nothing to do with her. So, keeping SC's comments in mind regarding the job, and the importance that she places on it, do I do a full workplace exposure? Her intent was the same...just because it didn't work out, the intent was there. I fear that if I take the workplace exposure too far, that it will drive her out the door. So...should I threaten that, or just keep it as an option? Additionally, her mom is also a large source of stress for her. She is 83, and my W takes care of her bils, shopping, etc. While her Mom is lucid as can be, I know that if I tell her Mom, that her Mom will freak. Being 83, her mom is very traditional, old school mentality. She is also not the brightest bulb, and while I know that she would put a tremendous amount of pressure on the W, mainly for the sake of my daughter, I am concerned that her influence on the situation would only bring more resentment towards me from my W. Now her 2 largest sources of stress in her life as she views it..me and her mom, are attacking her. My fear is that it drives her even further underground, and more determined to separate. So..how far do I go with the exposure at this point? Keeping in mind that this was an attempt on her part to possibly escalate an EA into a PA, and she was flatly rejected. Thanks.

Hi All! I wanted to give this a little bump. I am planning the "talk" today, and I wanted some input on the ezposure aspect of this. Please take a look at my previous post and let me know wat you think.

Thanks

I'm not sure on the exposure thing.

Right now, you don't have an ongoing affair. You have a wife looking to have one. I'm not sure there's a real exposure plan for that.

But, it seems to me you need to have some kind of confrontation with your wife about the whole thing. You need to set some clear boundaries (that you WILL enforce...otherwise they're useless) and get them in front of her right now.

And try to find out why she's ready to walk away. What the issues are...what changes need to be made.

A fine line between loving compassion and trying to demonstrate your love and willingness to fix things, and showing clear cut, strong boundaries and demonstrating that you're a MAN and that you will not accept wayward behavior in your life.

Had "the talk last night. In a weird kind of way, it was probably the most honest discussion that we've had in the 13 yrs. we've been together. I'll try not to run too long here. The basic points that she made were that:

1. She wasn't interested in a relationship of any kind. Period. And that included one with me.

2. She really didn't see any point in trying to fix anything. How she feels is how she feels. Doesn't want to continue living life pouring energy into a relationship. That we might as well relaize this is over and start thinking along those lines.

3. There was some talk about how different the two of us were, and some history rewriting about how us even getting together was a mistake in the first place.

4. When I asked about the bus trip, she admitted that yes, there were some flirty emails, but it was guy she had never met, and there was nothing that happened. When I questioned her about intent being the same, she just kind of brushed it off and told me that it was "not a big deal" and that she is an adult that can handle herself.

6. She give us staying together less odds than winning the powerball lottery.

7. Wanted to make sure we were kind & friendly toward one another as we split to make sure that there was no anmosity displayed in fron of daughter.

Essentially, from what I can tell here, she's 50 yrs old and looking at the next 10 years of her life not wanting to be unhappy in a relationship. Her actions suggest to me that she somehow thinks that blowing the marriage apart, and living as a sinlge mom will somehow give here the ability to carry on like she's 30 and single, i.e. going on dates and heading to the bar after work.

Counselor told me that she is in a independent mode, big time! He sees no real hope here. So, because our financial lives are completely entangled, and we are living under the same roof, it makes the situation complicated. I thought about it, and talked with her some more today about it. Told her that if she really feels that there's no hope for us, and her mind is made up, then let's agree to let the air out of this marriage and try to agree to remain friends. Not create a situation where our daughter gets wounded watching us tear each other up. Asked her to agree to no dating, meeting people, etc. until we get this sorted out as to no cause resentment, jealousy, etc. She said yes of course, there's nobody else, not interested in that type of thing, etc. etc. I feel like I can go down the path of the D much easier without that and asked her to have compassion for me on that level.

And then something interesting happened...Found a couple more "curious" emails from the guy that apparently consoled her during the failed attempt at the casino. Something about she's jealous he's out having fun, but her time is going to come soon. Another one about her not being able to concetrate. Basically looks as though she's confiding in him about the failed M and he's there to rescue her.

Then guess what? She told me that maybe we need a "cooling off" period, and that perhaps I should go stay with a buddy for awhile. So, she can just be absolutley sure, that maybe the hard reality of my not being around and being a single mom will sink in for her. Hmmmmm? That sounded like something I've read before on these forums. So, what do I have here? Is this a cake-eater looking to stay comfy in our home to go have a couple flings while I'm out, or is this someone that is being legit? Told me that the D was pretty much imminent if I stuck around because the stress was going to be too much.

Any advice on this one?

I think that's really cute. But tell her you would rather SHE move in with a buddy so she can see what it will really be like. And she can't take the kids. That will be what it will REALLY BE LIKE if you seperate because you ain't going nowhere and neither are the kids. If she wants to be "single" it will SHE who does the moving, not your family. TELL HER THIS.

And if she needs to "cool off" suggest she stick her head in the refrigerator for awhile.

In others words, don't you DARE move. And let her know, with a smile on your face of course, that you ain't going anywhere and if a legal battle ensues you will be keeping the house and the kids.

The only reason she wants you out is so she can carry on an affair from the comfort of YOUR HOME. I am not even speculating, I am telling you how it ALWAYS IS. So, don't be a fool, and don't you dare even consider it. Tell her EXACTLY what I said above.

Zimm,

When pistol packin Mama tells you how the cow ate the cabbage, you can take it to the bank. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> She is right. You stay, or you will have custody issues if the divorce goes through.

Please think about this. She is the one that wants a "free and easy" life, let her go get one, while you keep the kids and the house.

God Bless,

JL

ML, you sure have a way with words, lady !!! Where the heck were you 7 years ago when I needed your advice? My situation fit Zimm's to a T except that there was no OM, just work related stress, but, of course, it was all my fault. I did not move out, she told me that she was going to file and changed her mind the next day. A nervous breakdown two month later set the stage for starting to heal.
Zimm, I hope it does not come to that with your wife. Stand your ground. I was told by my Pastor that trial separations do not work. Just another means to grow apart. There are legal implications also.
Good luck.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Part of the issue is a financial one. If she moves, I will no longer be able to afford the house. The other issue is that, I'm not really sure there is another M. I think that she is certainly willing to explore that possibility though. And I don't think it's a case of her wanting to go out and get emotionally involved with someone, I think that she is looking to fill some kind of void where she wants to feel & act independent. She is in total "me" mode. She's no longer putting any effort into the house. Spends all of her time here at the house puting effort into her things, cleaning out her closets, trying on old clothes, going shopping for things for her. I really don't think that she is interested in staying in the marriage, and I believed her when she said that. I really just don't see what the point of a cooling off period would provide in this situation