Thanks ML & OWL. I guess that although she did say that yesterday, I still find myself with the fear that maybe she isn't really open to the idea of moving forward. For example, although she did say that last night, her behavior, conversation, and body language was still the same. Not that I expected some sort of emotional, "I'm sorry, let's work this out." reaction. I still don't know where this whole idea of this other dude stands, because at this point, she would tell me anything now that the cat's out of the bag. I'm thinking that her vm yesterday was an admission of some sort..."I'll think about everything you said, stop screwing around here, and focus back on the bigger problems." I thought it was a little too early to say, "Did you tell the other guy to back off?" I don't want to keep escalating the situation, but I do find myself sitting here thinking about the fact that tomorrow she's going to have a 3 hour block of unaccounted for time, and that gets my mind racing again.

I did order those books ML, and I'm hoping that they will arrive over the weekend. In the meantime, I asked W if she would look at some printed materials from the MB website, and she said yes. Any suggestions as to what material I could print here as you know my situation pretty well?

To be honest, and you might flame me for this, while I agree with all of the MB principles, I find some of the terminology to be a little hoaky...i.e. LB's, Love Bank, etc. I understand the concept, and I understand that it's necessary to make the concepts digestable in ways that everyone can understand them, but I wonder if she might look at that terminolgy and go, "oh come on...love bank's and love busters...do you thik that's REALLY going to solve anything?"

Zimm, instead of focusing on things over which you have no control, try to focus on meeting her needs and watching your back. Be warm and loving and attentive to her while watching her actions like a hawk. If she has a 3 hour block of time tomorrow, ask where she will be. Follow her!

As far as being open to the idea of moving forward, I would expect her vacillate back and forth. But as I told you before, treat her as you would a falling down drunk and don't take her ever changing moods too seriously while she is a WS.


I wonder if you arent' engaging in mental masturbation by worrying about things that have not happened? Dont' you have enough REAL problems to worry about without manufacturing hypotheticals? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Must you continually kick me in the nads with reality?

Yep...and Mel is darn good at it!

Now, she might have that reaction. So be prepared to TALK to her about it, explain the analogies, show her how they really DO apply. My wife had a similar reaction...I didn't know anything about MB until about a month after d-day...but when we started our REAL recovery, I'd found this site (didn't post, but used the information in the base site) and introduced the information to our MC. HE had never heard of it...but thought that it made a great deal of sense and decided to coach his normal counseling in these methods...and it worked perfectly.

And of course, Mel's right about her vacillating back and forth...standard WS reaction in the beginning. Its because they're confused about what they want...so they go back and forth. Be prepared for it. When she IS willing to work on it...that's when you make the positive changes. When she's not...keep your cool, no LB's, and prepare yourself to ride the storm out.

Again...keep working the plan A. Self improvement, meeting her needs, safegaurding yourself and your marriage against a possible affair.

Oh...here's something that you should know ML. You suggested that i be warm, loving, and attentive to her. Well, she doesn't want that from me...at all. Told me as much the other evening. Uncomfortable with my touching her in any way. During my initial plan a I was kissing her goodnight on the cheek, giving a hug in the morning before work, etc. Told me that it makes her "really" uncomfortable. Doesn't like the fact that she feels obligated to do that in any way. Feels that it just creates a false hope for me, and makes her feel guilty. I mean, she has become the ice queen in no uncertain terms. Although this morning as she was leaving, I was standing there and she did walk over to hug me. So, go figure.

Oh, another thought...I too had that issue with the terminology. But, if you think about it, it's not any harder to buy than the 'Five Languages of Love'.

As a matter of fact, I incorporated the both of them. Don't know if you've read that book, but its got a similar concept. EN's in that book are the same as the 'love languages'. Some things mean I love you to someone more than other things. You may feel more loved when she initiates SF...she may feel more loved when you help clean up the house.

In my own mind, I used the love bank analogy...and those love languages are like international currency. If she prefers euro dollars (gotta show my age, I actually used deutsche marks in my mind) over American dollars, they'll be worth more to her. A better 'exchange rate' if you will. A deposit in her love bank that's made in the currency she's used to means more than in a currency that YOU prefer. Does that make any sense to anyone else??? LOL!

Don't sweat the analogies. Just look at it this way...it WORKS. If you can find a better comparison that doesn't make you feel silly...fine. But the base concepts MAKE SENSE. And this does work.

That might be too much right now, so back off JUST a little, but remain warm and kind to her. Let her come to you with any kissing, etc. Continue to sleep in your own bed.

But be aware that what she really wants from you is some ANGER and ABUSE that will make her feel less guilty. See, she has demonized you in her mind, and to her boyfriends, in order to rationalize her wrongdoing. So when you are nice to her and don't play the role of demon, it confuses her and ruins her justification. See what i mean?

You WANT to continue to confuse her like that so don't treat her coldly as she wants. That just gives her a bullet to use against you.

So, continue to be warm, loving and kind, but don't overdo it.

Yep. I do see what you mean. As far as the unaccounted for time tomorrow. Sent her an email and asked her if she wouldn't mind if I bought her a couple eggs and a cup of coffee. We'll see what comes back.

BTW. I' ll probably be changing my username here as I introduce her to MB. Still the same me.

Zimm,
Two things that will sound like cheerleading:
1)She may very well be scared to come clean as she fears having to face your and her own judgement of her as a "bad person". It is easier to pretend the EAs did not happen and deny them than it is to confront your own actions and what they mean. This is one of the big stumbling blocks between me and Mrs GF. I work hard to make it safe for her to be completely O&H with me, but she tells me that she is afraid I will turn on her and use it against her in a D or other way. At least she is being honest about not being open (maybe).
2)Mrs Zimm is probably very confused by what she is seeing as far as changes in you. She thought that she had no romantic feelings for you, then you start PlanAing and making changes in yourself and she likes it so she is not sure what she feels. Giving her space allows her to stop running away from you and start inching closer. She is probably going to test the new you though...act all lovey-dovey and then an immediate provocation. She will be observing, what is your reaction? Are these changes for real? Is it really safe to open up to you? It is tough to be safe for her and at the same time protect yourself. Nobody wants to come back to a doormat but a brick wall is unappealing as well. Make it safe and comfortable for Mrs Zimm and safe for yourself too. That combination probably will not be very comfortable for you, so decide how long you can maintain it.

Thanks GF. Well, she knows that know about the attempts, and on each ocassion I've confronted, she's downplayed them as "nothing, a diversion from the real situation. They are done!" She's very much minimized their role in our issues, and I think she would like to view them, in her mind" as a diversion because nothing had resulted from them. It's difficult for me to communicate to her exactly the role that has played in our M over the last month. As I've stated, the timing is not coincidental...by a long shot. At best, it's a pretty irresponsible way to handle any situation with us.

I appreacite the kind words GF. I understand where you are coming from. Hard to put yourself out there as a rock, yet feel completely vulnerable at the same time.

Velvet Rock...soft to the light touch but if you slap it you hurt your hand.

don't bring her here! That would be disasterous.

Well, if I introduce her to the materials, it's very likely that she'll put the two together.

Print out copies of the materials...but there's no reason to bring her to the forum.

This has been your safe place to get advice...bringing her into it will risk that.

She probably won't like the material...she likely won't like ANYTHING that makes her face her own behavior. But if you talk about it first...explain things...it might work.

I am just telling you, it will be a disaster if you bring her here. You will lose this as a resource. We have had untold ppl who lost this forum as a resource because they made that mistake. She won't very well find this forum unless you direct her here.

Oh...I would never bring her to this forum. Trust me, I'm thick, but not that thick. No, my plan was to introduce her to some of the materials in printed form, and then on the off chance she would come to the site, that I wanted to make sure I was protected. Do you have any specific recommendations on material I should print?

HG (almost lost ya there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)...

Real quick,

I agree about the hokey language. Just warn her with a smile and a chuckle. Ask her to try to look past it, at the message underneath.

Don't overwhelm her.. maybe start with the summaries of the basic principles. Before I came here, my husband had printed out the article "Why Women Leave Men" from this site. It meant a lot to me b/c I could see that he was sincerely trying to see things from my POV.

I agree with what Mel said about not trying to push the romance right now. Don't really have time to explain it, but your W's just not in the frame of mind to accept it at this moment. Keep up the other stuff, though, just being the best 'you' you can be. Cheerful, Strong, Considerate, Confident.

And finally, I think you have a very balanced view of ALL of the factors at play in your situation -- both the history AND your wifes recent 'activities'. Hold on to that.

All the best,
--SC

Well...not looking good. Came home yesterday after work to find W's car in the drive. Unusual b/c sh always arrives home after me. Walked in and asked her why she was home ealry. Said that she had been to a lawyer's office, and she's decided that she wants a dissolution. Don't know if they have that in every state, but here in Ohio, it's like a no fault divorce. Wants to make sure things get split evenly, we have no real money, so we'll both just walk away with a pile of debt. Wants me to b part of D'd life every day. Said she almost thinks of it as though we'll just be living separately, and would like to do things as a family from time to time. Wants to make the whole separation as easy and amicable as possible..no yelling, emotional outbursts, etc. Said that she didn't want to go into any type of counseling or try to work it out....she's 100% on this and ready to move forward. I asked her to at least wait a month before filing as I have school obligations to work on and my DD is still in school as well. She said that she would wait a few weeks, but we have many things to start to sort out and untangle and she wants to get started with some of that. She's being nice...but seems very certain. I asked her why the concilliatory message and the agreement to go to counseling just 24 hrs. before? Said she didn't know why she agreed...feels that she found herself just "going along with the program" again, and it's not what she wants.

So...looks pretty hopeless I think. At some point here I have to make the decision to move forward in my mind as well, and accept the reality that this is going to happen. having been with her this long, I know that whe she moves forward with an idea that she'ss see it to completion. She did let me hold her this morning in bed, which I appreciated. I told her that I can be strong, but I need her as well as move through this. I know that sounds odd. Oh one more detail. I did ask her if she told the other guy to back off and she said yes. She said that was abig mistake on her part, and it was completely inappropriate behavior on her part. She knows that she has much on her plate, and that just complicates things. Knows that her doing that was a symptom of something else going on between us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

She wants you to be "nice" and "amicable" while she puts it to you. Please bend over and take it quietly while I destroy you. Do you understand? That is what the "friendly divorce" thing is all about. SHE IS NOT BEING NICE, SHE WANTS YOU TO NOT GIVE HER TROUBLE WHILE SHE PUTS IT TO YOU.

She wants you to go along and play happy family with her so she won't feel so guilty about tearing apart her D's family. Do you want to assuage her guilt? Are you going to allow this woman to take your D from you?

You need to explain to her that you won't go down with out a BAD FIGHT and you will not sit by idly. This is VERY IMPORTANT, CZ.

Here is the thing you need to understand, CZ. Her moods will change from day to day. That is why you can't pay any attention to what she SAYS, only what she DOES. Next week, she won't want the divorce, the next she will, etc.

As you can see, she has not filed for D, she is only TALKING about it.

So, what you need to do is this:

1. tell her you will not cooperate in any D. You do not want a divorce and will not be cooperative. If she wants a D, she will have to drag you into court. You will not help at all. You are her HUSBAND, not a "friend."

2. MAKE SURE she understands that you will not be moving anywhere and she may not move your child without a court order and the sherrif. You will fight for full custody giving her visitations

3. Let her know that you will cooperate on rebuilding your marriage, but will not discuss divorce. NOT INTERESTED

Stop allowing yourself to be sidetracked by her latest mood du jour and stick to your program. Counsel with Jen and work on your Plan A. Got dat?

She seems very determined to me ML. My concern is that she will make it nasty. I do understand, but I don't know how to stop her quite honestly. I do have a child here and I can't live in a home filled with tension all day every day. I do see the mood swing thing going here, but I do't want to have false hope either. There's plenty of damage already done, and I don't know how much more there should be.