Yes, and so do all falling down drunks. Her story changes from day to day if you hadn't noticed already. The only person who seems "determined" here is you, you seem determined to take her seriously despite the fact that her wishes change from day to day.


It is nasty now. Adultery and divorce and abandonment is about as nasty as you can get. We are trying to help you save your marriage from all this nastiness.


It is because you have a child there, that it falls to you to do everything in your power to not cooperate with her plot to destroy your family. It is up to you to protect that family, "tension" not withstanding. You haven't seen "tension" yet.

So, get to work and let her know you won't be cooperating with any destructive plots to destroy your marriage and your D's family. Tell her you won't cooperate, won't move, won't give up custody and will only talk about RECOVERY.

Keep this in mind, CZ, your goal is to SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE, not appease her at all costs. Appeasing a person he11bent on destroying your marriage will get you NOTHING, except divorced.

She isn't inerested in saving our marriage though. That's the pill that I have been forced to swallow. She has decided that it's over..done. Just because I have decided that isn't, doesn't mean that it will work. What do you feel that that i will accomplish by playing hardball with her? Do you think that she'll come to her senses and relaize what she's doing? She seems pretty far down the line mentally...I don't think this is a threat. She was actually beginning the process of throwing some things out today that she doesn't want to move, tlaking about what kind of pace she wants to get,et., et.c So, i don't know. I would like to save this, but I'm afraid that if I get too crazy that I will risk getting a better deal if she DOES decide to go through with it.

She isn't interested in saving the marriage TODAY. That will all change next week. And then change back. Then back again. I don't know how many other ways to explain this to you. You simply can't take seriously the words of a falling down drunk and doing so, as you are doing is nothing but a diversion.


Are you kidding me? How is telling her you won't cooperate "getting crazy?" On the other hand, have you not noticed that your wife is really crazy with her ever changing moods and self destructive behavior?

My suggestions are not "playing hardball," they are designed to insert some REALITY into the situation that will begin to wake her up. It is not to "get crazy" to tell her that you will not move, will not cooperate. C'mon, lets use some common sense here, CZ.

Stop allowing her to DICTATE your path, CZ. You are allowing a crazy woman, whose moods change from day to day, to dictate your path. Stick to Plan A and let her know you will not cooperate.

There is nothing more I can say to help you, CZ. If you choose to allow her to dictate your actions, then this is hopeless and I am wasting my time here.

I understand what you are saying ML. It's been a really odd weekend. On the one hand, it is if a weight has been lifted from her by telling me that. She's actually conversing, being nice....letting me hold her in the mornings yesterday and today. On th eother hand, I'm watching someone that looks like they have just determined their path, and that path is to not stay here. So, while I agree with you comments about her changing day to day, I'm just wondering what is relaly going on here? She knows that the D will be devastating on all levels...financially, for my DD, for me, and for her. Her claim is that she just wants to be alone...has been in a reltionship with a man for 25 yrs. Doesn't want it, doesn't need it any longer. Just wants to live the simple life of living in an apartment without obligations to a man. And the odd aspect of her vision is that I think that she really seems to think that after the D that we'll just continue to be buddies, and as I mentioned, still go do things as a family together. Just as long as I understand there's no romantic involvement, of course. She did tel me the other night during all the D talk that "I love you...I just don't want to have sex with you." I don't know. One minute she seems very steadfast, very determined, and very sure, and then...she'll let me hold her. So, I guess that I could interpret that as her being confused about what she wants to do, or interpret that as her just mellowing out and placating me so I go along with the program.

What divorce? Are you divorced? Has the divorce been filed? If the divorce has not been filed, then THIS IS ALL JUST TALK! Stop listening to the fogbabble of a falling down drunk. Talk means NOTHING coming from a WS. TALK IS CHEAP!You have seen this over and over again, CZ, but for some strange reason, INSIST on hanging on her every word! And you call her "determined?" WHY? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Focus on WHAT IS, instead of WHAT IS NOT! Got dat? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Everytime she spouts fogbabble to you - and you LISTEN - I want you to read this 10 TIMES because it is the ONLY THING YOU should listen to now:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

When is your appointment with Jennifer?

Well...you're going to kill me for this. After the talk on Friday, I attempted to cancel the appt. Not sure that I was successful in doing so however. So, I'll see if the phone rings tonight at 9 pm.

Do you have her email address? I believe Eav does, why don't you ask her [on her thread] for it so you can email Jennifer and tell her you want the appointment.

I'm sorry ML. Why do I think she's determined? She's told me that she's 100%. I know...words of a falling down drunk. I also know her though, and once she makes a decision, she rarely backs dwn from it. She knows that if she goes thrugh with this that it's not only me that she screws, but herself as well. Still...that doesn't seem to phase her a bit. She is, as I type this, actively sorting and cleaning things out that she no longer wants. Can't take it with her to the new place. She has put aside some money to pay for the lawyer...this I know. So, this is what I am seeing as What IS.

How do I find that thread?

No you are not. You have no divorce, no divorce papers, no seperation papers, no nothing. TALK. Only TALK. You are reacting to her TALK. You are giving up based on empty TALK. She was talking a different game on Thursday yet you say "she is determined."

A WS is about as decisive as a hormonal 13 yr old girl. Would you plan your life based on the ever changing moods of a 13 yr old?

I would hope not. BUT YOU ARE.

You need to focus on YOUR PLAN and stop allowing her ever changing FOGBABBLE to divert you. This is never going to work if you don't stop that. Now, read your plan 10 times:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

Go ask Eav here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=1#Post3213690

I did have the opportunity to speak with Jennifer tonight. I wasn't sure if W would participate, so i explained the situation the Jennifer. after hearing the situation, Jennifer elected to not talk to W at this time. She told me that she knew exactly what she would hear from W, gave a few examples of what those would be, and she was completely right. So..she worked with me for this session. Basically told me more Plan A, watch LB's, be certain to listen. That's my plan at this point. Don't know if the W will respond to the plan or not, but I did learn something tonight...it's my plan, not hers. For the next couple of weeks I will be putting a serious effort into my plan, not discussing D, and trying to make home as warm and inviting as possible.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And just how many times did you tell Jennifer "yabut??" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

oh wait!! Didn't you tell Jennifer this was all hopeless because your W is "very determined" to get a divorce??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh boy..just what I need...another smart A$$ in my life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

**snort** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for all the help ML. I guess that I need to start understanding that this is about me too. I have been caught up in her next moves now for 6 weeks, that it seriously was making my head spin. I'm still in that space to some degree. The idea of continuing to be somewhat of a doormat for the next several weeks while she pretends like she is 20 yrs. younger and single again isn't appealing, but then, neither is the alternative. It's really amazing to watch a transformation like this in someone you thought you knew so weel. I have to think everyone here has gone through that shock factor of "Wow..who the he!! is this person?" The thing about watching my W do this is that it's both frustrating and kind of pathetic at the same time. Downloading disco songs off the internet and putting them on her mp3 player and walking around singing. Just went and signed up for a tanning place. Just..head in the clouds, thinking that the best life is going to be yanking our D out of the only home she's ever known so W can go get a duplex and be single again. WTF?

Good morning all! For those of you that have been keeping up with my thread and are familiar with my circumstances, I wanted to ask for your best Plan A advice in the face of a W that has in her head (at least this week) that she is positive about wanting D. Do I not acknowledge anything about D? For example, if she starts talkign about cleaning this or that out, or who gets what, or any of that crap...do I just politely acknowledge with, "well, I understand how you feel."...and then just move on?

As I stated in the above post...man, just watching her ridiculous antics is almost bordering on humorous. This AM, DD was sick, so I made all the arrangements..called her off day care & school, took her to grandma's. Sent W an email letting her know what was happening. Her response? That's fine...just so you know, if I'm 15 or 20 min late coming home this week it's because I went tanning. UGH!

HG, you tell her you aren't interested in any talk of divorce and won't cooperate with any seperation schemes, just as I outlined above. Tell her you only will discuss reconciliation. If you just say "I understand how you feel.." it sounds like an affirmation. And you don't want to affirm at all.

Plan A does not mean appeasement. It means only meeting needs where you can and not lovebusting. The carrot and stick I posted is the best outline of that strategy.