Kind of odd...now she's come home and is acting completely normal. Good mood, talking, acting as though that conversation this morning never happened. Makes me think that hse's just decided her course here and that she will be determined now to follow through with threats. I know...mental masturbation.

Seven years later we are doing as good as can be expected.
She recognized that the main problem was what everybody was telling her right along and that was that she was to involved with her job. The stress was getting to her and she was lashing out at me. It went on for two years until she told me she wanted to file "tommorrow". Well, "tomorrow" came and she decided to give it another shot. Two month later she had the breakdown and we started to recover, but it was not easy. I was in such bad shape that she had me convinced that this was all my fault....I believe what ultimately got to her was that the kids were starting to get on her case about "being mean to dad" and the like. She did not want to be the one blamed for breaking up the family.
She says there was no OM and I believe her. One year later she had another breakdown and that is when she decided she
could not beat this on her own and went on medicine. Then, five years later she had another episode but nothing like the two before. Right now the empty nester syndrome is getting to both of us a little, but we made it thru REAL tough situations so this will pass too.


ML, I did end up doing the copy and paste. What I do know is just copy after every few sentences, just in case !!!

Thanks for sharing NTL. I guess my W is going through quite a bit right now as well...I do beleive this is a multilayered problem with her. Menopause, new job with a mover & shaker atomosphere that is giving her the ability to get some self confidence and perks, her age, the flirtation and A attempts here that have not come to fruition...I think. She's certainly blaming me for everything as well. Choked all this down for 10 years, played the game,etc. Now it's her time, and why should we continue to live in a M that is completely hopeless...all we're doing is hurting each other and DD.

Unfortunately, she isn't dealing from the rational / logical side of the equatio. She is operating completely on emotion. She knows fully well that going down this path will not make sense from a financial, family, stability perspective. That doesn't seem to matter to her. She claims no infidelity, but I've already seen enough to know that she has at least pursued it..and probably still is...she's just being more careful. So, all of the rationale that she's provided to me so far may have some validity to it, but it doesn't negate the influence these attempted A's have had on our situation. I relly think if she disengaged from these fantasies, made a Dr's appt. to test her hormone levels, and got out of that job...that I would see a whole new person. Unfortunately, there is just no convincing her of that. She keeps telling me that I'm not listening to her, but then again, she hasn't been completely honest with me, so why should I listen to her.

honestguy I have to say maybe some of the problems that you are having with your wife is because you are not validating her feelings. Even if you don't think she is being honest you have to try and respect her point of view and let her know it's ok to feel what she is feeling. She may very well be telling you why she is acting out but because you believe it to be what you think it is instead of listening you are pushing her further away. This is just my .02.

No one likes to feel that what they have to say doesn't matter.

DIG, his wife is speaking FOGESE that is influenced by her desire to pursue an affair. She desires to manipulate honestguy. He can't respect that point of view and shouldn't. That is not something he would want to validate so we have told him to NOT to act on her FOG BABBLE or pay it any attention.

Good Morning and Happy Easter to all! Kind of an odd day is some regards for me. I woke up this morning and realized that this could be the last holiday that we all spend as an intact family. No..I don't know that for sure, but the possibility exists. Nonetheless, I am a little melancholy this morning.

Throughout the years, W and I have always gotten a bit of a kick out of watching the old version of the Ten Commandments every Easter. We always love the green fog part. (Fog...how appropraite). At any rate, I spent a chunk of the early evening reading Fall in Love, Saty in Love, then went up to the bedroom where W was watching the movie. I laid there for awhile, and we both kind of drifted off to sleep. WHen I woke this morning, I found myself really nuzzling up to her, and frankly, kind of pushing the SF issue. Keep in mind that there is no reciprocation on her part. I didn't take it too far, and at one point, she told me she was getting uncomfortable, so I stopped. I think part of this for me is the fact that, hey, it has been going on 2 months now since the last encounter, and I still feel close to her. However, I do have mixed feelings about this. She allowed me to touch her to some degree, but won't reciprocate. This leaves me with a feeling of placation. As if she is just allowing me to snuggle up to her, because she knows I need it. On the other hand, she's right...I do need that contact, but I feel that I'm possibly doing myself a disservice as well. I think that maybe if she feels my touch that she will warm up to it, but I can't help but feeling that I'm just going to really run into a brick wall with it, and get into a situation where she just tells me to stop, or I push her away because she views me as being needy. I don't know...mind games.

Any thoughts on this one?

ML I understand what you are saying but what I meant was even if she is speaking fog babble he could say I know things between us have not been very good as of late but I will do the best I can to make up for that. Whenever she starts off with her rant if he just keep repeating this he can't lose.

As far as your W goes HG how was her childhood? I think she may have some serious issues with intimatcy not sexual but being vurnerable that's why she keeps running from having anything to deep with anyone. I believe someone said before she has a pattern. She does want to get to deeply involved in anything and that's her way to keep herself safe from whatever she is fearing will happen is she were to let someone in.

Oh an Happy Easter to you. The best way for you to shake the blues is for you to take your daughter out and do something fun together that you both enjoy and it will keep you from focusing on the bad.

HG, it is a good idea to be as close to her as you can without pushing her away. What you did does not come across as needy but it did cause warm feelings, I assure you. I would keep doing that any time you see an opportunity to do so.

Happy Easter! Wish it were under better circumstances.

p.s. did you tell her that her mother knows?

I don't know that it created warm feelings necessarily. I'm not sure that she has any at this point. It was a little more like snuggling up to a warm pillow that happened to have skin. The last time I did something like that, she reminded me that "she doesn't feel that way". Noticed that she didn't wear her weddig ring all day yesterday and doesn't appear to be doing so today. I'm guessing that's supposed to be my signal or something...kind of like our entire R... I was just supposed to read the signals all along.

No, ML...didn't tell her that MIL knows yet. Looking for the right time to do so. I didn't want an uncomfortable holiday. Besides, I am curious to see the act that happens today in front of MIL. MIL is shrewd enough to get a few leading questions in there. I'll wait until after holiday is over to let W know that MIL knows everything. I'm sure that one will send her over the edge, as she through out the classic, "you've told everyone our dirty laundry, and that's a big issue for me."..insinuating that there was somehow an opportunity to work it out if everyone didn't know. Yeah, right.

All of this subterfuge and secrecy is nothing more than conflict avoidance and is very harmful to your situation. This situation is dysfunctional enough without adding to the dysfunction. This is a lost opportunity, hg, and for absolutely no reason other than conflict avoidance.

I understand what you're saying, but understand also that I do have a DD to worry about here as well. My choice was whether or not I wanted to create a situation in which Dad wasn't coming over to grandma's for Easter. I'm not protecting my W in any way in this, and if the words happen to fall out during Easter dinner, then so be it. This isn't conflict avoidance at all...I'm just trying to be measured with my stick. The confrontation yesterday had already escalated to a point of angriness and nastiness. I wanted to give her something to chew on, and that something was a big something. Plus, also understand that I'm still not sure if there actually is something else still going on with her pursuit of an A. All I have right now in terms of continuation is that there still is a level of secrecy and game playing happening, i.e. erasing cell phone history.

This would have been a great opportunity for your wife to face the consequences of her actions. That is the BEST THING for your DD. And of course you could still come to your MIL's for Easter, there would be no reason you couldn't.

It is ridiculous to keep an exposure a SECRET, CZ, and completely defeats the purpose. It is conflict avoidance to the extreme. The point of exposure is to EXPOSE, not to gossip secretly behind the WS's back and keep it a SECRET. Its purpose is to get everything out on the TABLE. IN OPEN VIEW. This puts much needed pressure on the WS and that opportunity has been completely, and unnecessarily lost. Only to avoid conflict.


None of this is relevant to this exposure.

CZ, the secrets and the conflict avoidance have to stop if this is going to get anywhere.

Burning the midnight oil tonight Mel? I just wanted to tell you that I appreciate everything that you have done for me here. At the very least, you've allowed me to cut through some of the crud that has been thrown at me in the recent weeks. You've emboldened me to take the proper steps to try to make this work. I can't tell you the countless people that have given me the old "kick her to the curb" line, but ultimately, I don't think that's the best solution. It's an intersting dynamic when someone you love inflicts so much pain on you that it would be easy to just be done with them. I see a person in my W that is about to make a very large mistake in her life and in her DD's life. Despite the very large heap of crap this woman has piled on me, I still feel as though I need to save her in some ways from making that mistake. It's a harsh process, but I hope that somewhere along the way, regardless of the outcome, that this woman will come to realize that if I am willing to stand in the face of so much crap in an effort to save our M, my DD, and her, that she will then begin to realize the level of committment that I have for her. I know it always doesn't work that way though.

Just kind of contemplating out loud here...along with letting her know that MIL knows everything, I'm still thinking about contacting the last guy that she was planning on meeting. I busted her before it happened, so there was no meeting per se, but this guy took on the role of consoler. W told me last week when telling me she wanted D, that she told him that he had kind of come on to her, and that she explained to him that she had a lot going on, but she was just "goofing". Her words. Do I bleieve that really happened? No. Do I have any additional proof? No. I just thought that contacting him would be a nice way to let her know that if she continues her secretive behavior that the next on in the salvo is the email to HR.

I think that is a great idea. You would put him on notice and he may even tell others about this. He probably wants nothing to do with someone's H.

Fair enough.

Spending the evening with W and DD this evening, W was slightly more loose. Not warm mind you, but wasn't running away either. I have a copy of Fighting for your Marriage by Markman, Stanley, & Blumberg that someone had loaned me. Got it out of my work bag and asked her if she wanted to read it. Her repsonse "I have 50 books upstairs that I haven't read. Every time I try to read I fall asleep." I said, "Want to puruse it then? How about an article or some other materials (MB)...I have some of those too." She responds by telling me "You read too much, that's your problem." HA!

Sorry, I just found some humor in that for some reason. Maybe she's right...perhaps we are incompatible.

Think I might hand her some material from MB tonight and see if she might be receptive to it at all.

I suggest not doing that at all. Your WS will consider that as "pushing", and it will likely lead to more resentment on her part.

MIM is right, it usually isn't a good idea to try and educate your spouse. Instead, why not have that chat with her and EXPOSE the EXPOSURE? You know, the BIG SECRET?

Well...Mel, you finally got your wish...I told her MIL knows everything. Had a fairly emotional conversation tonight, and threw everything on the table. Essentially, she's still telling me the same things...has never been right since the beginning, has never loved me, she cares about me, but has never been in love. She has felt in love in other relationships, and has never felt in it in ours. We talked about her EA. She said it was more of a game than anything. Told her that I didn't consider infidelty a game. She told me that that it's just a symptom of the bigger problems, b/c if something so insignifacnt can turn her head that quickly, then there's obviously a much larger problem. She again identified all of the issues that I have contirbuted to our M. Said this has all been one big mistake. I told her I know she's still talking to OM. She sadi, so what. She essentially feels as though I am blackmailing her into working on our M. That the EA aside, that those feelings have been there from the start. I told her that her EA was causing much more in our M than she realized. That she needed to disengage immediately. She told me that she made a mistake, and if she could rewind the motnh she would, b/c then if she told me w/o the EA, then everyone wold truly understand that she has felt this way the entire time. Told me that there was no reason for me to hurt him, that he's an innocent bystander w/ 2 little kids.I told her that he is an opportunist, and I have no compassion for him...I will take him out at the knees in the workplace by exposure. I asked her to call off the dogs here...no attorneys, etc. I gave her the metaphor that this is a plane hurtling toward the ground and we needed to pull up the stick. Asked her to consider counseling, which she was resistant to initially, but by the end of our convo, she told me to make an appointment. I told her it wouldn't work if she wasn't open to it or she thought I was forcing her into it. I explained to her the MB principles and told her that what she is engaged in is playing a VERY significant role in what is going on here. Again though, I think that she feels backed into a corner by me, which isn't my intent, but is what she feels nonetheless. I'll try to post more as I remember the bits & pieces.