Just checking in. Nothing really eventful over the last day or two...at least nothing that I know of. Last night was a good Plan A night for me. Came home and was pleasant, yet assertive. Let W know what I felt needed to be taken care of over the weekend. I cleaned the house while she walked on the treadmill. Every night now is all about her...tanning after work, followed by an hour on the treadmill, then some stretching, then the shower & hair ritual, then to bed. DD is growing ever closer to me as we laugh and joke and talk about reasonable things. She told my MIL that if W wants to meet men on the internet that she doesn't want to live with W.

I still haven't pulled the trigger on calling OM at this point. Not sure what's stopping me. I'm also flirting with the workplace exposure. I know I shook W up with that as I noticed that she came home with job listings in her bag. Must be figuring that if I blow her ou of the water where she is now, then she'll need a place to land. I doubt they would fire her, but I'm sure that it would be pretty embarassing to have the scarlet letter on your head. I'm a little tossed about this decision as it could backfire in the sense that no real ramifications come from it for her, which then empowers her. Right now I have the power.

As I go through this process I cling less and less to other reasons that she is acting this way, i.e. menopause, age, etc. The more I read, the more I understand that this is an A...pure & simple. I just don't now what kind or how far it's gotten. I think this last round of lies has proven that to me. If it's just a game, then why is it a big secret? Had the pleasure of reasing through the craziest things a WS has said thread last evening, and have to say that I could relate to a BUNCH of them. That was almost cathartic for me as it takes the power away from ANY of her words to me. I know that I am delaing with a liar, a cheater, that I am still in love, but in love with the person my W once was, not who she is now. I don't like the person in front of me now, and frankly, neither does anyone else around her,

Speaking of crazy things a WS says to you...here's a good one. Over the years my W has been a big time decorater. Every holiday...Easter, Halloween, Christmas, etc. We have a room in our basement that has nothing but decorations in it. Anyway, she has always derived satisfaction from the compliments she has received in making our house look so nice for the holidays. We had a party every year for Christmas at our house, and everyone would come over and tlak about what a winter wonderland she had created, and she really liked that. At any rate, during our last "heat of the battle" discussion, she asked me, "Why do you think it is that I clean the house, and decorate like crazy?" "Why?" "Because I have nothing else in my life since you've trapped me into taking care of everything in here." I laughed at her.

Advice needed - W had recently grudingly agreed to counseling. I know that she has her script prepared and this is an effort to placate me on some level. Says she'll go wiht an open mind, but I kind of doubt it. At any rate, I have Jennifer C schuled to call the house on Sunday evening. I also have, through the high recommendation of a friend, researched a local counselor. Friend told me when he went, that they used Harley principles, but I don't know if that was his individual counselor or everyone in the practice. Anyway...I could schedule an appointment with the local folks on Saturday AM. This is a cheaper route as well...I can't afford many $185 per crack phone calls. Should I attempt to schedule the local appointment, knowing that the W will probably go there and spew the same crap?

When you go in, knowing that your WW is going with an agenda...go in prepared to counter her agenda.

A GREAT way to do this is to be prepared for some of the normal statements thrown out by all WS's.

"I've been unhappy for years!" -OK...give me examples. Specifics about what made you unhappy. Who else KNEW you were unhappy? (my wife hated this...she didn't have any grounds for this accusation, and it was immediately blown out of the water)

"I've never really been 'in love' with you."- Oh? So you faked it all these years, and everyone else believed you? Or are you simply being blinded by your current situation? What about xxx...go in with great examples of proof that she DID love you. Get the idea?

"It's not about OM". - You're right, it's not. But, he's made the entire situation completely unworkable now.

Bring in copies of MB materials with you...print the material off the main site, and be ready to show your counselor what actions you're taking along these lines to fix things. Make it clear that you do acknowledge your part in the marital woes, and have taken active steps to fix them permantenly. BUT...you're NOT responsible for your wife's choice to have an A, and until she ends that, you know that moving forward is going to be problematical at best.

I think that's a good strategy OWL. I guess the question becomes do I keep the appointment with jennifer on Sunday or go for the local one on Saturday. Btw...my W is in financial dilligence mode, so the whole question she starts asking is "how much is this", b/c, hey, she's saving up for a divorce and a new life. Can't be wasting $ on this foolish counseling bs.

Made the counseling appointment for Saturday morning. W agreed to go. Researched the counseling center, and they are pro-marriage, pro-family, Chritstian based counseling. Neither my W or I lean heavily on faith, she more than I, but I like the idea that these aren't liberal, do what makes you fel good, types of counselors.

Any ideas on what to expect? I know she doesn't want to do this, and my guess would be that she's going to go there, and then feel like there was no value. Hoping for the best in that a 3rd party is going to look at her and go, "ooooh man, what are you thinking" but I kind of doubt that will happen either.

Brrrrr! Very chilly at my house tonight, both inside and out. I guess I'm deserving of this since I'm trapping her into counseling and all. Or, could just simply be the fact that she was talking with the other Mr. Wonderful in her life today. Who knows?

Here's a quick question, and i don't know if this is a guy thing or what. And yes, I know that this is a WS thing and I shouldn't listen to a thing she says, but here it goes.. When I asked her the other evening exactly what she thought she was going to get out of driving to another state and sleeping with this guy, she looks at me ver matter of factly and states, "I don't know...cheap thrill?" Now, I kno...my plan, don't listen to a thing they say. But sometimes those things DO sting. In my case it was particuarly bothersome b/c of the fact that WW has brought up our sex life in all of these conversations. I guess as a guy, I struggle with the fact that here is this woman that has been open to me physically for years. However, this happens, and now I'm not allowed to see her in her underwear, yet she was ready to drive off and do the deed with a guy she's only met once. I don't know...that one gets to me.

Sorry for the moment of weakness.

trying to make sense of the senseless = pounding square peg into round hole until your eyes bulge

a "moment of weakness" is perfectly understandable

give your DD a hug

Pep

Thanks Pep.

Well...we had another "talk" last night. I noticed that she had read some of the MB materials that I had left for her along with SAA. She said she skimmed through the materials, but didn't get much out of them. She read through some of SAA, and didn't really feel that it applied, although she did acknowledge the addiction aspect, which she then used as rationale for her lying to me about her contact ceasing 2 weeks ago. My very real threat of exposing at her workplace said that it was a bucket of cold water in the face, and that she has not had contact w/ him all week. the threat of that exploded that fantasy. Apparently, the idea of losing her family wasn't enough.

Her reaction to the MB materials was that they did not apply to us. Her words were that these all apply to those people that were in love in the first place, which was never the case for her. There's nothing to recover b/c it was never there. Told me that any of the things that she has cited as being an issue where I'm concerned..i.e. lifestyle, that it wouldn't matter if I did a complete turn around to her, it wouldn't matter at this point. She's just not "in love". Oh, and as for all of the milestones and planning over the years, those were simply acts of her being afraid to be on her own and doing the right thing for our daughter. She's been pushing me away for years, but I just didn't get it. Maybe it was because she would push me away emotionally, then talk about where we would be in 2 years. I guess I'm just thick headed.

As far as her fantasy is concerned with OM, she states it's just a symptom of the problem we have. I told her it had everything to do with the problem we have. I asked her again for absolutely NC, which she agrees to, but I've been down that road already and all I've gotten are lies.

So, we're going to counseling tomorrow, and I have asked for an open mind from her. She said she would have one, but there was nothing ANYONE could say to her that was going to make her be in love with me.

Any thoughts?

She's right, there's nothing that ANYONE can SAY that would make her be in love with you.

So...challenge her.

Tell her that you want her to prove her statement that she can't ever be in love with you, with a very simple test.

TRY to be in love with you for 90 days. That means NC HARD IN PLACE for 90 days. That means doing all the things needed to rebuid your marriage for 90 days. Spending 15 hours/week together doing fun things, talking, etc... Actually do the EN questionairre, and actively work to both let you meet her needs for 90 days, and that she actively work to meet your for 90 days.

And at the end of 90 days, both of you sit down and talk about where to go from there. This is NOT saying that you're willing to D her then...but it might give her the impression that it'll buy her that chance...LOL!

Make it crystal clear to her that ANY contact of ANY kind with OM (or ANY OM) during this time completely resets the clock.

She'll tell you that she doesn't need this trial, she already knows. Tell her you understand that, but you're asking for it so that BOTH of you can say that you've done your best to fix the marriage. Tell her that if nothing else, it'll prove to YOU at least where things really stand.

The reason I suggest this is that if you do a truly awesome job, and if she does hold to her word and allow you to try to meet her needs, and she really does commit to that 15 hours/week and you do it right...in 90 days, it should seriously give your marriage a fighting chance of survival.

I've seen it done a couple of times. A couple of times here on this site (a poster named sysyphus had a counselor who recommended it), and my counselor used this with another couple as well, and it worked wonders for them.

Give it some thought. She'll probably fight the idea, but see if you can get the MC to buy off on it...and remember that you're not promising that you'll give up and D in 90 days. But keep the 'if this doesn't work in 90 days' part of it kind of ambiguous so that your WW can think that she's got something to gain by doing this.

Thanks OWL. I think that is a great idea! Unfortunately, I don't think she'll bite on it, but it's worth a shot. Her mindset right now is that her mind is totally made up. And she feels as though if we continue to live under the same roof that the situation will just keep deteriorating. Gives me the "I don't like being in limbo" thing, and "I need to keep moving forward". In her mind, moving forward means saving money for a D, throwing things away she no longer wants needs, perusing the classifieds to see what apartments are out there. In the meantime, she gives me the cold shoulder, runs and hides from me, etc. She claims this is all very uncomortable for her, but I guess that's all part of the script isn't it? She's just resisting me at every turn. On the one hand, this has been a bit of a breakthrough week as I've at least scared her into NC for the time being, and she looked at materials and agreeed to counseling, but it's by no means a mental breakthrough on her part.

Oh...and her response will also be that she's been trying for 10 years with no luck.

Oh, I totally would expect that kind of response from her. It's a classic WS script. Your response should be along the lines of "I understand. But that was 10 years of me not realizing the problem. Now I'm asking for 90 days to for US BOTH to find out if this can be recovered or not.
You already have the feeling that it can't be saved...I want to find that out for sure. This is your chance to prove your point to me.".

Oh...and if it comes down to it...go to your initial counseling together, and then contact your MC OUTSIDE of your session, bridge the idea to them, explain to them why you think it might work but why you feel your wife won't bite...and see if you can get THEM to recommend this as a solution. Maybe try that first, before you bring it up. It'll be a 'safer' choice coming from an MC than from you, to your wife.

How does one continue to enforce the NC?

Mostly by snooping and confronting when it's broken. By making it clear that you're not going to sit there and placidly accept her continuing contact with OM. And if she does continue, continue to expose her repeated contact with OM to the same people that you exposed to in the first place. Again, ask EVERYONE to help you keep the pressure on her to end the affair. Make it clear that it's not just YOU that wont' accept this...its EVERYONE.

I'm still tossed on workplace exposure. It's kind of my leverage at this point with her. I'm wondering if there's a way to throw OM under the bus while leaving her annonymous as a warning shot that I'm serious.

Exposure as leverage to get your WS to do something is blackmail. Ergo, pointless, and harmful to your attempt to rebuild your marriage.

Just expose if you've got the information you need. Don't threaten to, don't hold it back hoping that you can convince your WS to do the right thing and you won't expose.

Expose to get the results you need. PERIOD.

She should already know that your serious. The fact that you HAVEN'T exposed throws doubt on that.

I understand your point Owl, however, I have already exposed to family, friends, etc. The fact that she knows that I have the ability to do so at work has prompted her into some kind of action here. I see it as a double edged sword too...either I expose at work and nothing happens, which takes the power away from it. Or, i expose at work, consequences ensue, then I have another connundrum on my hands financially should she continue down D path.

Additionally, this has prompted the interest in the counseling which I hadn't had prior to this. My hope being that a thrid party sitting in front of her telling her that she's being self destructive could help as well w/o causing the nuclear holocaust that the wp exposure would certainly bring.

hg, Owl is right, the threat of exposure is rarely effective. If your W has agreed to listen to counselor just because she is scared of exposure, it is a complete waste of money. Counseling is for the willing, not the unwilling. There are no magic words that a counselor can use to persuade a client to do something. Honestly, I have never seen it happen around here.


The divorce is more likely to happen because of the AFFAIR, not because of exposure. If the affair is not killed your likelihood of divorce is great. The temporary anger from exposure does not lead to divorce, on the other hand unless the person was already getting divorced.

Your wife may very well be just going along to stop you from interfering with her affair while she just goes further underground. I would watch out for that.

This is why it is just better to expose, threats are very ineffective in the long run.

It is completely unrealistic that she would listen to any such thing. She won't be interested in anything like that until her affair ends.

But my question is this: is this REALLY AN OM? Or this some guy she tried to set up a tryst with and he backed out? What is the extent of this relationship?