This is a tryst that she has been engaged in with a person from another state that works for the same company. They met once...during the infamous casino trip. No, this one is very willing to meet her..I caught them arranging plans to do so before it happened. She still continued to email & call from work, and I caught that to. So basically, she's caught up in the fantasy of getting together with him, and I keep interfering. It weasn't until she realized that I could blow BOTH of them out of the water at work did she change her tone, agree to stop contacting him, and agree to go counseling...without an open mind. So, this is no on fire office romance or anything. This is my W attemptinto have an A, which as far as I'm concerned, she is...it's just been difficult for her to act on it. The mentality is the same though.

On another note... I got news today my best friend's Dad died early this morning pretty unexpectedly. 62 yrs. old. I knew him fairly well. As I thought about it and related it to this situation I'm having, it really made me kind of angry. Here I have a W that is ready to blow up our family because some douche via email & phone calls got her juices flowing, and now she figures that's what she needs. I'm just so incredibly angry now. I have to be careful. She asked me about his Dad's death, and I asked her "What do you care? Just another one of my stupid friends."

Ooops. I think that was an LB.

Yeah, it was. I apologized for it.

Good Morning! First MC session was yesterday with a pro-M counselor...from what i could tell at least. Given that it was the first session, most of it was spent with background information given by me & WW. She was able to talk about some of the legitimate or semi-legitimate issues that we have had over the years. Some of it was accurate, but there was also some fog thrown in there for good measure. Fog consisted of the same old crap...trudged along for the last 10 yrs hoping that her feelings might change, I'm a good friend, but that's where her emotions stop for me etc. She told MC that she's tried and tried but to no avail. Why stay married when you don't have that "in love" feeling that one is supposed to have. 50 y.o., has spent the last 25 years with 2 men, life is almost over, scared of what's around the corner for her...has no background, education, savings...all she has is her job.

I listened and participated in this round & round for about half an hour, and then finally told the MC that this was crap. Told him about the whole story of the infidelity that had entered our M. That I had discovered WW making plans to go meet some guy and the only reason it didn't happen was b/c I interfered. WW acknowledged that everything that I said was true and told MC that it was indeed the catalyst for where she is at emotionally, but not the entire pictue, and that I continually insist that it's the entire problem. He asked me if my position was that she was "completely wrong?" I told him no, not completely, but that she was re-writing the history of our M and dwelling on any negative aspect that she could come up with in order to justify and rationalize her behavior. One of the topics that had come up were mixed messages that she would send throughout our M. WW claimed that she had tried to push me away in many ways over the years, but I just didn't "get it". I said maybe that was because she was continually working on planning our future together, making commitments, etc. Why would I associate the fact that she may have been cool sexually with the fact that that she was attempting to end our M? I told MC if he wanted to hear a good mixed message, I said how about the one that at the same time she was suggesting a "cooling off period" and that I stay at a friends for awhile so she could "see what it was like without me in the house", she was also actively making plans to meet with this other guy...and that it wasn't a lunch meeting? How's that for a mixed message? I tend to call that lies and manipulation...not mixed messages. I told both of them that my W had emotionally raped me over the last month despite the fact she "wants to be firends" and doesn't want it to get "ugly". I told her she already had made it ugly by introducing infidelity into our M.

At any rate...I'm trying to think of any positives from the session.

1. She said there has been NC for the last week with him. She realized that I was really hurting. Of course, I tend to think that it has more to do with the fact that I made the threat to expose at work.

2. She said that while she was there still in the D mindset, that she was willing to listen to and consider all perspectives.

3. She cited the fact that I had exposed to family and friends as a huge barrier for us working things out. I told her I understood, but I would not apologize for it.

4. She is agreeing to go to more MC sessions, which at least indicates and openness on her part to me. I don't think she's 100% convinved herself.

As for me??? Driving on with Plan A. Going today and joining the gym, hammering out the last requirements for my degree, being jovial and funny, not dwelling. I did snuggle up to her in bed this AM...didn't grope her, just held her. I plan on more of that this week as well.

Thoughts?

Sounds good. Are you spending 15 hours a week doing fun things with her?

GREAT JOB. This all tells me that you not only GET IT, but you have mastered it. Is this MC familiar with the dynamics of infidelity? MOST ARE NOT. This is why most marriage counseling is such a dismal failure, they are completely ignorant about infidelity and rather than addressing those issues, will facilitate and encourage changes based on a temporary mindset of FOG.


Her anger about this usually means she is not done. Which you know already. Just watch your back.

You did GOOD! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't know if he is or isn't. He really had no comment at the end of that...he was just kind of listening, and then our session was up. This is a pro-marriage, Christian based counseling center, so i guess we will see.

I agree that she probably isn't done. There were some disturbing kinds of inferences she made in the regard that that she made the comparison as to how our relationship started with what is going on now, i.e. she's met someone, and this is her pattern of handling things.

Also noticed that she was looking on job boards this morning. This could wither be a good or bad sign in that she may seem to think getting out of that environment would be wise, which I doubt. Or, this could also be the way that she takes the power away from me on the job front to "prove" that this is what she really wants...a man whom she's met once, that she flirts with via work email. I know that's crazy, but hey, these situations aren't exactly rational either. She is, I would say, what one might call F'd up in the head.

Affairs make the adulterous look good to his/her self in the mirror (at first)
"I'm hot' ... "I'm young." ... "I'm better than (whatever)"

and then, affairs make them look bad in the mirror

then good
then bad
then good
then bad

the adulterous become ~~~> feelings directed

their poor self reflection MUST be the fault of the betrayed

"How DARE you make me look bad to myself!"

not realizing that feelings ALWAYS shift/change/adapt

because of this, it does not take much to knock them off center

the adulterous have no plan ...most of the time ...

When the adulterous DO have a "plan" it usually involves a LOT of relying on the betrayed's cooperation ...

"Everyone will be happier once the marriage is over & we will all get along and all be better than ever."

In order for the betrayed to get the upper hand

he/she must be PLAN directed
not feelings directed

The betrayed's mirror must NOT rely on nor reflect what the adulterous says about him/her

PLAN A is all about getting your reflection/identity just right ... not other-validated

this is where those with a strong faith have an advantage....

Pep

I think I understand you Pep. I'm trying. She's w/o a doubt, all feelings directed at this point. And, you're right, she doesn't seem to have a plan. D is the easy plan for her. I won't make it easy for her while I work continually on me. Thanks for the perspective.

Thanks beleiver...i don't think she's quite ready for 15 hrs a week of fun things quite yet. I'm just taking the crumbs of semi-normal, non-hostile attitude & conversation at this point and making the best of it.

What has stood out has been the fact that on weekends she almost normalizes. I don't mean she's close and lovey-dovey, but she doesn't have quite the "tude" that she has during the week. My speculation on that is that is when her contact does happen with the OM, so then she comes home guilty, angry about the situation that "I" have put her in.

It is typcial for the WS to treat the BS with hostility just after a meeting with the OP. The reason is because they need to demonize the BS in order to justify their meeting. In order to demonize you, she needs you to act like a DEMON. And what better way to make you act like the devil than to BAIT YOU into a fight? See how dat works? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You are the living rock of stability in your M right now ....

and I admire that!

Pep <~~~ admiring HonestGuy

ME TOO!

Pep...thanks for the admiration. I truly appreciate it.

ML - Yes, I certainly understand how "dat" works. I'm certainly no suggesting that my situation is unique by any means, but...(I feel a 2x4 coming after this, putting on my helmet now.)what is unique is that this is a person that she has met exactly once. He is an opportunist that sees someone that is emotionally vulnerable and willing. He is engaging her in her fantasy while she is at work and they send cute little emails back & forth and she is taking that and running with it. Do I think there's an emotional attachment here...not really, but possibly. But, it feeds into this wayward behavior. Is this really an A? Yes & no. She WANTS there to be an A on some level, but I have interfered all along. So, it's an intersting dynamic in that I have a WW that is in kind of an A, and plays out of the WW playbook, yet this all seems to be complete fantasy in her mind that DRASTICALLY influences her behavior. In some ways it allows her to justify her actions more in her mind b/c nothing has really happened...yet! And hey, if her panties are all in a bunch b/c of some guy that lives 4 hrs. away sends her some crafty emails, then certainly, something is incredibly wrong with her M to me.

You had asked me about the extent or depth of what this situation is in an earlier post, so I wanted to expand on that a little for you.

Need some advice here. I called the counselor that WW and I saw on Saturday, and asked him for his thoughts. He said the A shouldn't be my primary focus...that it's a barometer for what is happening in the M. I don't know that I buy that. He said it's a big issue, but not the biggest one. Told him that I understood that W and I had some issues prior to this but this IS the big issue.

Thoughts?

My thought...you've got an MC who doesn't understand how to deal with infidelity. He's right...it IS a symptom. However, if you don't treat this SYMPTOM right now, the patient will die before you ever get the chance to treat the disease!! Think of it like a fever in the body...the fever isn't the source of the problem...the infection is. But if you ignore the high fever, the patient will die long before the antibiotics will kick in and stop the infection.

Ask him if he's familiar with MB. Tell him what you've learned here, and how you're working right now to recover the marriage from the infidelity. Tell him that you completely agree that there are other major issues, but right now, THIS is the biggest issue that your marriage faces. And that he's GOT to treat this first...or your marriage won't last long enough to fix those other problems!!! When there are a number of bad problems that need to be fixed, you prioritize and start fixing them.

Well, he told me that if I focus on this as being THE issue, that I might as well sign the papers now. I acknoweldge the other issus that are there, and I'm willing to work on those, but I need to get her to the table. He feels that the infidelity is what is bringing the other issues to the forefront. Duh! I could have figured that one out. he recommended that maybe I do an individual session with him...for what? I know what's going on.

You need to ditch this guy and get an MB approach counselor.

He needs to recognize the damage the infidelity is doing to YOU, and to the marriage NOW...he's right about those other issues, but he needs to get his priorities right...there's no way to fix those other issues while she's planning on cheating/etc...!!!!!

Tell him point blank that you'll be GLAD to work on those other issues...as soon as he can get WW to quit her wayward behavior. Nothing to it.

Ugh! Had a tough night tonight. Evening started with calling hours for friends Dad. keep in mnd that ALL of my friends are aware of WW's behavior over th last month. They were cordial but cold, and WW noticed. She was uncomfortable to say the least, but it wasn't exactly a normal situation we were in either.

Came home and it looked as though we were going to have a normal evening. I went up and laid on the bed, and asked her if we were going to talk between counseling sessions about what we had going on, as counselor said to listen to one another. The first round was normal, productive. She simply told me that she didn't have that "intensity" that one was supposed to have in a M. That she was Disfunctional in relationships, should have ended all this a long time ago (which is consistent btw with what she's been saying all along). I almost understood where she was coming from, I don't know that there was much fog talk in there. She seems to legitimately feel the way she feels. She's just reach a point where she feels like she can't go on any longer being unhappy with who she is or pretend that she feels a certain way for me. I kind of bought it. I told her I loved her, I knew she was hurting too, that it wasn't easy for either any of us.

Got done with that talk, and while it wasn't what I wanted to hear, I didn't feel she was being dishonest. She said there's really nothing I can do that is going to change her mind, that she feels that she just really doesn't want to be married. Told me her little email escapade into fanstasy land was exactly that , she regretted it, and there was nothing there, that she was not pursuing it...it was done. A guy she met for 2 hours once, and got caught up in a stupid game, and for the he!! that it's caused, it wasn't worth a bit of it. Ok. Let's fast forward a bit. I say, well, I'm going to run to the store real quick.

During the course of our M, we had a separate account from our checking account that we called our slush fund. Any time we had a few extra bucks, it would go in there, and we would use it for birthdays, recreational sepnding, or whatever. Well, a couple weeks ago, she had simply transfered $1200 out of our account into this one stating that it was for our upcoming camping dues and DD's birthday. Here's the thing...I've never had access to this account. Never really had to. So, on a whim, I grabbed her debit card so that I could see the balance in acct. Guess what? No money in there. I was pissed now, and I came home and confornted her. She told me that she wasn't telling me where the money was, and she did it to get back at me for threatening to expose her at job last Monday. She knew it would get a rise out of me. Unfortunately, this led to a no holds barred fight between us. Lots of judgements on my part about her A, which she says was nothing, was childish and immature, but nothing resulted in it. Told me if I wanted to back her into a corner she would come out swinging. I told her she had done nothing but back me into a corner for 6 weeks,that I had to do something, anything to get her to stop her BS. Lots of really, very nasty comments back and forth on both our parts. Told her if she wanted to be an old maid, go ahead, nothing's stopping her. Told her new guy would become the old guy, and the new her would become the old her, and that at some point somewhere in the future, she would wake up one day and realize that she had a man that loved her, that there was a future with, a good future with, if she chose it. She could have cared less...told me there was nothing I could say or do to change her mind, this M was over, she wants out, ad if she has to lay a few more surprises on me, she is willing to do that. Told me she would quit her job if she had to, and just let me sit here and go bankrupt. Said there were more where that comes from. Lots of threats, lots of hostility. She basically told me my exposure was a joke, if anyone wanted to see her as being evil, then go ahead, that was fine with her. She's survivor, there's nothing I can do to save this, and if I want to destroy her in the process, then go ahead, b/c che'll make it as miserable as possible for me too.

Lots more was said. That's all I can manage right now.

Honest guy,

This was not cool. You should have just stated you wanted to trust her, and she had failed you by not telling you about the money. You then state you love her and leave the room.

As for your MC, what he is really telling you is to do a plan A, and that is where you meet needs that perhaps you haven't AND you make changes in yourself that you feel need to be made for this marriage to be a better marriage.

Doing this DOES address the A, AND it begins to address the other issues in the marriage.

Tomorrow apologize to your W for the LB's and don't expect one from her. Simply tell her you don't want to back her into a corner, but you are hurt and you are having issues with trust, and that means trusting yourself.

What you are missing right now is that "feelings" change. Acknowledge her feelings, even if you don't agree with them, and then set about to address the issues in the marriage as much as you can from your side.

What you don't seem to realize is that as you improve and change you force her to react. She may pull away because she does not want to be "wrong", or she may start to come toward you. Either is better than on the fence. More importantly however, is that you will begin to change you into someone that will be successful in a relationship, whether it is this one or another one, who knows? But, it will be a success IF you learn how do handle this.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL