Of course. But your DD should live with you and just visit her mother. You need to get primary custody so that your DD is NOT exposed to her OM. That is how little girls end up getting molested.

Wow...I don't know if i can carry it that far. First, i don't know that there is a OM. Can I prove that she was plotting a sexual encounter from with a dud that lives 2 states away..yeah, I can do that. I don't know how much water that will hold though.

You don't believe she will have boyfriends when she moves out??? Surely you jest?

I would tell her that because of her recent attempts at an affair, you will do what it takes to protect your DD from such an environment. You will fight for primary custody to keep your DD in her own home. Make her understand that you have evidence that is she is seeking affairs and you won't hesitate to introduce that into court. THAT will wake her up!

It is not "carrying it too far" to PROTECT your DD, it is "carrying it too far" to have affairs and drag little children from their homes. It is YOUR JOB to protect your DD from her.

I agree. I guess she does't want to get ugly, but she made that choice when she decided to hook up with someone dhe didn't know.

Once again...thanks for the great advice. Think I'm going to get some rest here.

Good evening! Well..we made it through the weekend without any D talk or explosions of any kind. That's a good thing! Today was an interesting day that does add some credibility to the "confused" aspect I guess.

Last November, we decided to buy a camper that we put in a campground about 40 minutes from us. Our camper is 2 campers up from my brother and his family. At the time, my W was the champion of the idea, discussing how it was going to be great fun for us as a family, and really couldn't wait till spring to get it going. Well, of course, THIS THING came up, and now the whole notion of the camper even being set up had come into question. Long story short, we paid the camping dues with the money that she had temporarily removed from our account and hid for awhile, as it was earmarked specifically for this. Today was a beautiful day here today, so it ws perfect weather for us to take some rakes and boxes to the new camper...which we did. We as a family worked on it, and I heard her talking about how we needed to "get this thing and that thing" and when "we come down, we'll do this & this". She told me that she had some clothes that she wanted to bring down that she was originally going to give to Goodwill. So, all in all, she's talking like this is a summer of FAMILY fun to be had.

So...to counter that talk, and give some more perspective on the unrealistic expectations are. As we're in the car, she's talking about how she saw a waitressing job in the paper that she's going to apply for, as SHE is going to need the money. She's works FT already, so the only time she would have to do this would be evenings and weekends.

Now, this is a person that insists they are hellbent on getting a D!! So...which is it? Are the weekends going to be about family fun at the campground? Are the weekends going to be about working at your waitressing job? How is your waitressing job going to fit in with your single mom lifestyle?

Wow! Now there's some twisted perspective.

Good job on getting her to do some family-related things. She does sound confused, like she wants both worlds. Continue doing a good Plan A.

When she talks about moving on, calmly let her know that you plan to keep the family together, and so she will need to be the one to move.

Thanks Believer. I did a good plan A today. When she talked about getting the part time jobs because she nneded the money...I didn't even acknowledge she said a thing. Just kept on driving along as though I didn't hear it. I'm trying to let that kind of stuff just roll right off my back.

Of note...she did wear her wedding ring today, which has been a first for the last week or so. When she doesn't wear it, I hear the excuses that it "slides" off her finger. I notice a pattern here of where on weekends she almost normailizes by Sunday to some degree. Saturday's are ususually spent on selfish things, and Sunday's are half normal. However, when she heads back to work, she usually slides back into the funk.

AS for me...I got some much overdue school work done tonight. That felt good. I have a lot of work ahead of me over the next several weeks, but I'll be able to call myself a graduate by June. That's been a long hard road for me, and this little episode really has thrown a wrench in there over the last couple of months. But..I am seeing the light at the ned of the tunnel. I got some good news last week as well, as my boss approached me to tell me that he had recommended me VERY HIGHLY for a position that he was aware of that would be a much better opportunity for me career wise, with more $, benefits etc. All combined, that really empowers me. Regardless of what turns out between W and I, I know that I will ultimately be fine.

I don't know...you tell me if this should be appealing for women...honest, loyal, funny, confident guy, with a solid education,good job, loves his kid, and that believes in family first. I'd say that's not a bad catch. Oh...did I mention that I've lost 25 pounds as well?

You sound like a great guy, and our MB men always do well if the marriage can't be saved.

I'm proud of you for continuing to do well in school and work. So often when this stuff happens, people can't study or do their job.

Continue Plan A, and it might help to think of her as a crazy person. That way you won't waste a lot of time trying to figure out why she is talking about a future with you, and a future without you, both at the same time.

Thanks Believer. I do fall into that category of people that have had a difficult time coping with the school & work aspect. It's amazing to me how this becomes such an all consuming thing for us BS's. It also amazes me how she can just hop in bed at 10 pm, and just drift off to sleep, not hurting, just focusing on her, apparently completely oblivious to any hurt.

I do think of her as a crazy person most of the time, but it's those triggers that get me. Every time I think I get to a safe place, there always seems to be another one that blows me out of the water and sends me scrambling.

I'll give you and example...this week was the week of the bathing suit bottom / panty discovery. Now, I check her bag every single night, and have since this happened...she probably knows this by now. Those things have never been in there. When i confront her, she tells me "that's what I wear tanning..you know what, stop trying to control the inevitable." That puts me on my heels. I'm disarmed. Ok...they are for tanning. I can buy that. She's right..I'm jumping to conclusions. Then today, she says, "i don't know how I used $37 worth of gas this week. Usually I drive about 250 miles per week, but the odomoeter says 350. I can't think of any place I've been extra." So...then I start to put those things together in my mind. Ok...well, the odometer doesn't lie. So, are you? You can't remember if you've drive somewhere else? it's alomst like an admission of guilt that I begin to assemble in my mind. Then I analyze, and build a case that may or may not be true.

You know...it gets to a point where you begin to wonder...when is enough, enough? To keep commenting on my discoveries...my W went to a local store over theekend with my DD. She brought home a bag of clothes that were of course, sexy in nature. There was a charge against our account for $62, but the receipt I found said $35. Looked around in her stuff...again...and found the $62 receipt. There were 2 items that stood out...one was a Laides Lingerie item, the ohter was a Ladies Nightwear item. The items in the bags don't match up. Found the incriminating receipt buried in her wallet. I'm tired of this.

Here's what I might do if that was my (W)W - ask her what she bought at the stores. If she gives me a dishonest answer, I'd call her on it, indicate that I can't share finances with someone who chooses to be dishonest with me, then immediately take steps to secure my personal finances - no contributions towards any joint accounts unless it's to cover bills for family expenses.

Oh, and I'd search for the lingerie and hide it when I find it :-).

Thanks!

Ok...here's where I'm at and I need some pro advice. I have received confirmation that a hotel room had been booked, but then was quickly cancelled when I threatened to expose at workplace. I can't patrol everything here, so from my end, I have no idea if there's still any contact happening or not. I don't think so, but hey, it's not as though I'm going to rely on her word.

I delayed the wrokplace exposure b/c I wasn't really certain that anything serious was in the works. It does appear that I stopped it in a nick of time as it was going to develop into a PA as I was fed the mushroom treatment.

I'm at a place emotionally with this where I'm getting very worn down & fed up. I'm tired of exploring every little sentence that sounds odd. I have a life to move on with too. I haven't seen any signs of her coming around. Now, this is a short time horizion I'm working with here. But..I see her as not budging off the notion that separating is what she wants. I do see occassional moments of what is perhaps confusion in her, but those come few & far between.

I have 2 options as I see them right now..well, actually 3.

1. I expose at workplace and stir up the hornet's nest. The potential upside to this is that it's the cold dose of reality she needs. The downside is that she'll resent it enough to quit, and still want out. Only now, she has no job or a piddly job, and I get stuck in a situation where the ultimate still happens, but now I'm stuck paying for her.

2. I file for D to gain at least temporary custody while the court sorts it out. She moves out, sans child, and pursues the freewheeling life she wants. I think I have enough now...the out of state dude chasing, the financial recklessness, etc. to at least demostrate that she's whacked out and nobody knows what she's capable of next.

3. I let this drag on and Plan A her, which doesn't appear to be having much effect at all. The emotional strain continues, the stakes keep getting raised, and the opportunity for me to get baited into losing my cool continue to exist.

We have another MC appointment on Thursday which I don't have much hope for in producing results. Then the weekend is DD's b-day, followed a week later by WW's B-Day, followed by Mom's day. Not that any of that matters (other than DD's B-Day), but I do want to be careful as to timing.

Thoughts??

Good evening...wanted to give this a small bump as I'm really seeking some input tonight. See above..and,as always, thanks!

I think you need to stick with Plan A as long as you can and try to resolve what has caused this detachment. She seems to have some terrible resentments, hg, about something and I wonder what that something is. What do you think caused you to become so detached over the years?

Did you read that book, Fall in Love, Stay in Love? What did you think of it?

I think that detachment has more to do with her and her issues rather than me. If you validate her detachment story, then you validate the concept that the entire R/M has been a farce since the start and she just been "going along" with it for the last decade.

If I had to put a more "recent" view on it...I would say that she has felt overwhelmed in that she feels that she has had to take care of everything. For her, what that has meant, has been the fact that she's had to go back to work full time over the last couple of years, she has an elderly mother to take care of, we have s child, and I have been going to school & working throughout this time. I felt as though I was doing the right thing and trying to be a provider, and probably let her take care of too much on the domestic fronts etc. I think she probably felt alone in that regard. I don't know that she's entirely accurate in her perception, but I think that's how she feels. Part of that is carry over from the days that she was a stay at home mom, and she fell into her role which was taking care of everything at home, while I went to work. So, the natural, not right, but natural course of events was that I would get home, and everything was pretty much taken care of.

I think what is going on now for her is that the new job feeds her ego and confidence. My IC framed it fairly well for me...at work she's gaining confidence, getting perks, recognition, and attention from men. So...she's coming home and working out and developing this self identity of being confident, attractive, strong, able to stand on her own two feet, etc. She identifies her role in the M & family as being...I'm fat and old, and everybody wants me to take care of things for them. Everybody includes me, DD, and MIL.

I did read the book, and I did understand it, but I have someone that is unwilling to work at ANYTHING other than themselves right now. She doesn't seem to understand that she can have both roles in our M...sans the attention from other M aspect of course. So, there's a lot going on...some of it A related, some of it age related, I would guess some hormone related things as well, and some genuine M frustration.

I have asked repeatedly what EN's I could possibly work on for her. She tells me "nothing...you can change all you want, but it won't matter to me. I'm not in love with you, and I don't see you in that way."

So...at some point here, I have to start asking myself, is this A related BS, legitimate, or a mix? Let's not forget that this is the same person that booked a weekend to hang out with her new boy toy.

To add to the other post...I think that now that she sees herself in this new light, the idea of staying in a committed M has become less appealing to her. I believe her rationale is..why keep putting effort into something that I don't feel like I'm getting anything out of. So, the single life becomes appealing..."hey, I have this job, and this satisfaction, and yeah, maybe I'll have a boyfriend or two here & there, but the concept of being able to hop in the car on Friday night and head out of town for an exciting weekend with a new friend is pretty enticing". She's spent the last 25 yrs with 2 men, so she doesn't want that any longer...she wants the new, single, glamorous lifestyle.

Well HG, you should get some sort of prize. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You have brought me out of 2 years of lurkdome to reply to you. I have been reading these boards since my own 'incident' 2 years ago and NEVER have I felt the need to respond to a poster (until now). I am more content to read and LEARN. Now, are you ready for my first post to be a 2x4??????

YOU DON'T LISTEN.

You have been given the best advice that is available by some of the most knowledgeable veterans on this board. You need to follow their advice to the letter. Your posts seem to justify your wifes actions. You BELIEVE her fog babble. You seem to BELIEVE that this marriage is over. If you believe it, then throw in the towel. It is. SOMEONE has to have a clear head. SOMEONE has to fight (even though it is hard) and SOMEONE has to think about your DD.

The bottom line is...WHAT do YOU want? Do you want to be happily married to this woman again? OR...do you want to give in to the alien that has abducted her and get a divorce?

If you want to be able to go to sleep at night knowing you tried EVERYTHING to save your marriage for yourself, your DD and your wife...then DO WHAT THEY SAY!!!! EXPOSE, darn it. BLOW THIS THING OUT OF THE WATER. Plan A. Learn Reverse Babble (Orchid's posts). Don't wait...and yes, it is scary. But in order to go 3 steps forward, you must go a couple back now and then.

The more you resist the MB concepts and the PROVEN ways to bust up your wifes behavior, the less and less replies you will receive. YOU CAN DO THIS....that is, if you want to. Good luck.

DTBT

I KNOW that she has rewritten history and exaggerated it out of all proportion, however, the fact remains that a detachment has taken place here. Something caused her to look outside of her marriage. One thing that really alarmed me is that you said you do not sleep in the same room? Am I remembering that correctly?

ok, so she won't take the EN questionaire, it is up to you to figure it out and try to attract her back. It is way too soon to just give up, CZ. This is far from hopeless.

Good post, BTDT! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Expose her at work I guess it is then. I really don't see another option.