Boy she sure knows how to manipulate you. Just get a hold of OMW (It can't be that hard), and tell the SOB OM to stay away from your W. You are in your own fog. Quit rationalizing inaction.

You mean if I had actual proof?
I would take my proof and confront her with it, and expose it to everyone that would make a difference including tracking down the OMW and her work, and I would let her know that NC must happen if she wants to save our M, that means she couldnt work there any more. I would contact a lawyer and start creating a case to try to keep my kids and my house.

As it stands, I dont KNOW anything other than this creep is using my wife for his EN for counselling. And she doesnt see any harm in that.

Why did you ask like that?

You have to excuse Jim T_M he means well but sometimes he comes off a little harsh. What he is trying to say is if you think OM convo's with your W are inappropriate it shouldn't matter if you have enough proof and you should talk to him and his W and make them aware of your feelings.

I was curious if you had a plan. Now, why do you need the actual proof to proceed with some of this stuff already? What are you afraid of? Ruining your happy marriage as it currently stands? It actually getting worse (reminding you to go step on the scale and look at the weight you've lost - and then to maybe scour the boards here for anyone else who lost that much weight, and ended up being wrong about an affair going on).

I know you are so afraid of the worst, and yet already accepting it... just quit operating from the fear. Accept it, and move forwards. If you are wrong, then whose fault is it really? Your wife has some responsibility in providing you with some assurances. If you've actually expressed your justified concerns to her...she should care about you to assure you that nothing is happening.

EVERYTHING she has said to you about this raises alarms to me. She is feeding you enough honsety about the situation to make is seem droll. To make you feel comfortable that she is telling you things. I FEEL like it's crap. How do you feel about it? At minimum, OM just sexually harassed her in front of another female employee, which, well should be enough fuel for you to seek out a reason that that topic didn't even come up. Don't you get alarmed that the coworkers response wasn't one of shock?

Sorry, I'm not some secret messenger that can bring you the proof you need. Not a hidden coworker at her office. I'm just gonna give you the bit of a reality check you need.... start operating from what you know. You know, your marriage and her job circumstances both need to change, immediately. So, work on what you can...the rest will develop.

-hang in there

Why did I respond that way? Well, here's why. I have experience. I am trying to snap some sense into you so you don't have to make the same mistake that I did. You KNOW that your WW's relationship with OM is inappropriate. You KNOW what path it is leading down. I KNEW my WW's relationship was inappropriate on 8/25/07 (check my sig), but like you, I didn't do what needed to be done because I didn't have my "smoking gun." Well, guess what? Because I sat on my hands the whole time afraid that exposing an EA would cause problems (when actually the EA was already causing more problems), it became physical. Yeah, I got my proof then, but what good did that do me to wait for it? The deed had already been done. And by then she already was so attached to the SOB all she could think of was to get away from me to be with him. Afterall, she was attached enough to him to finally give into his advances. It is easier to deal with these things early than to let them fester and get worse. Don't make the same mistake as me. Put an end to this crap NOW!

TM

You asked:

Because Jim is tring to tell you the very same thing I have been telling you since you opened this thread weeks ago.

Read his answer again and really think about this one more time. It sounds like my sitch and his are very simular. "Too much so."

Having said that, if I had known then where my w's inappropriate R was headed, i would have moved mountains to put an end to it. So where is your end TM? Waiting to join the same club Jim and I are in? Keep fearing about LB your W and see the result of that. I may get 2x4's about that, but you need to take heed of others who have made the same mistake.

You may fear the warning shots that your w has lofted across your bow, but you need to have the courage to defie her attempts to control you and your rightfull actions to make her cease and desist these harful actions to your M. You have a right to your boundaries in this M, and she, apparently, needs to be made aware of them. How will you accomplish that. As my friend bob pure, has stated: "What would you do if you weren't afraid?"

Jim wasn't harsh. He was trying to wake you up to the very same things I have stated since the beginning of this thread. He just expressed it so much better than I. But the again, we both speak from the same experience. We are both trying to tell you something: DON'T SIT IDLY BY AND BECOME US!!!! ACT!!!!

You say you have OM's STBXW address; then camp out there until she comes home. If I had the opportunity to do this, I would do whatever was necessary to save my M. Wouldn't you?

BTW, that nice lady who answers the phone, the one who told you "you need to check on your wife",
If I was a betting man, I would mortgage the house that she is close friend to OM's w and has told her everything that is going on in the office. Thus, the comments from OM to your W the other day. Think about it!!

All Blessings,
Jerry

Fear is an instinct God gave us to stop us placing ourselves in danger.

Tired your worst outcome is already here. Nothing else to fear. Your life can't get more wretched than it is.
Realise that you have already lost your WW. While she is not in NC and working on your M, she is not yours. Consider her affair active.

Fear is not helping you. It is obscuring the fact that the nuke has already hit and your W is cake eating.

Are you claiming permission to be paralysed by fear ?

If so Absolutely we BS have that !!

Its just that such is not typically a response that rebuilds marriages or self esteem. It gets, well, what you have now. hope and fear mized into a trembling, barely breathing marrige.

I was devastated by Squid's afair. Paralysed for WEEKS from doing anything effective. Pathetic in my instict to settle from crumbs from Squid rather than have her end her affair.

One day the penny dropped within me that a grovelling , mewling and puking BS is not an attractive one. OM was strutting around giving * ME * marriage advice FFS !!!!

So when Mel & Wat beat up on me to expose to his GF ( together 14 years, kids) the INDIGNATION welled up in me.

I wanted OM to bear the consequences of what he had done. If he and Squid ended up together then so be it, but my snivelling wouldn't prevent that. I had faced up to stuff all my life and I would again now.
So I exposed to OMS GF. Then I puked in the bushes with fear and relief.
And there was a faint, barely perceptable itch in my right hand as the situation whip passed from the infidels to the BS.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In that moment , Tired, I became a Knight, and left my 'serf' personality behind.

NOTHING helped me recover from this HUGE insult more than my getting mad and doing the brave, righteous thing.
Trouble is Tired, self pity and grief requires a sympathetic audience to be effecive or useful IMO. And the OP could give a shiny sh*t about the BS and the WS is just sickened by the patheticness of the BS, and it reinforces their rewrite of history which portrays the BS in a negative light.

So grieve, be sad but be COURAGEOUS too. By responding bravely , a BS takes the steps that have been proven time and time again to help end affairs and kickoff recovery WHILE ALSO displaying admirable traits that the FWS may come to respect again after the fog dissipates.

I rose up , stood erect and spat righteously in the eye of the affair. You want a fight, demon of infidelity? well YOU'RE ON !.

OM cringed and cowed. BEGGED me to leave him alone. OM GF thanked me earnestly for giving her the choice in life OM denied her.
Squid HATED my actions at the time, but has since told me that I was 'heroic' back then.
I was so low, Tired that I filled myself with wine and ADs and drove my car into a tree. I was a foot away from not walking away from that wreck.

I have moved from strength to strength since then all because I have NOT let my fear or grief dictate my actions.
And Tired, I am not an extraodinary man. These boards are LITTERED with BS who decided " enough!" and fought the affair with righteous anger.

Finally, Tired you have the RIGHT to respond in any way you think fit. But long may Melody Lane advise the warrior's route to crushed BS as a way to restore their self confidence and dignity and end the affair.

Remember what Roosevelt said :


And if you want to know where your current train of thought can lead CLICK HERE

all blessings tired. ALL blessings.

Every now and then, when I'm going downhill, I find myself verbally saying 'get away from me Satan' ... it helps, just to recognize what is going on.

thanks

I am trying, the # I have hasnt produced, I dont think she is staying there anymore.

One problem is I have a long comute to work, and they all live/work in another town about 40mins away. Makes the logistics of trying to tack her down difficult and still remain under the radar so to speak.

I am trying to get the courage to do this right, I never realized how weak I am, or have become.
I feel like I can do this....

I'm working on a cell #, hopefully it will pan out. Tried to find there house yesterday. Think I got close but got a call and had to bail.

We are talking about her changing jobs, she wants to find a part time job now, for other reasons. Not sure if we can find one but at least she is receptive to the idea. I think we can make this happen in time.

Dont give up on me, I'm still in plan A and being vigilent. And my plan is to expose what I know to omw when I get contact info, if I cant get the cell I will send a letter.

update
I could never contact omw.
My W still continued to talk about om for a time, they had sort of a falling out at work and she started putting some distance between them.
At this time I have never had any hard evidence that anything was happening other than personal convo's about his divorce some in a sexual tone, and some flirtatious remarks and some other what I think is inappropiate topics that my w had told me all about. She talked of leaving work but never did.
I went to IC, she got furious that I did and would never go.
She convinced me that nothing was happening. So I stopped all snooping. I came to terms with it and tried to let it go, and be "normal". If I brought it up again she said she would leave me, that I have put her through ****** over nothing. I wrote a very heart felt letter telling her that I was ok. Everything was going really well, and we were happy.

Things got kinda patched up at work. He needed a ride to work. I couldnt help myself and put a recorder in the car.
I thought I heard something incriminating. And he showed her his house. I didnt want to tell her what I did so I made up a story of how I heard what I heard, kind of made it an anonymous tip thing. She was upset and denied everything and was shocked that someone was trying to hurt us. She never came clean, she had done nothing.
She had stuck by me the entire time.
I heard it wrong.
I heard it wrong.
I was stuck in a lie. I let it go too long and it got busted wide open.
She lost her job, her career, and her best friend (me), she hates me with a virilence that is incomprehensible. My children are distraught. I am in shambles. My life is ruined. We are all still at home but it will never be the same, if she had some where to go and some money she says she would leave. She says that she is dead to me.
I hate myself.

Hating yourself is going to get you nowhere.

Marriages have regularly rebounded from worse. Just plan A your W. Give it a good 6 months and re-evaluate where you stand.

<Hating yourself is going to get you nowhere.>

I know its not, but its really hard not to. I screwed this up really bad. Do I tell her all the snooping I did? Is that to continue to lie if I dont? If I tell her should I do it soon to get it over with or do I wait or what? Does the whole "snooping is ok thing because you are fighting for your marriage" thing still apply?

I feel just awful.

All I wanted was some boundaries with this guy, all I wanted was to be reassured with something other than "there is nothing there" or "just get over it".

Now I'm afraid she will try to "pay me back" in some way that would hurt or degrade her. Kinda like "well I'm accused of it anyway" thing.

I just dont know what to do, things have calmed down, but there are still a few things she doesnt know, and I dont know if I need to let it all out and start it all again. She still says she hates me and that we are not together.

Let me tell you something so you don't hate yourself. Your WW was having an emotional affair with the OM, she "hates" you now because you made her end it and she was addicted to him, and you will get a chance to rebuild your marriage once withdrawal is over. You did the right thing. Is there NC with the OM? If so, you should see some improvement in the next several months. Just hang it there.

there should be nc as there is no reason for contact now. but I havent actually asked for it, dont see where I can.
she may have been in an EA I dont know how I can tell, but toward the end after their little spat, she didnt have a lot of nice things to say about him for a while, but then things were getting smoothed out.
Most people at her work think I overreacted and am probably a nut. The extended family thinks we just need to work it out and are really not taking sides, very supportive of both of us.

I guess its just going to take time like you say, if you pray, pray for my family.
Thanks

Listen to what Jim said above. YOUR WW was at a MINIMUM on the verge of having a physical affair and did have an emotional affair and at the very minimum how would she have felt with you busting up into the hottie from the secretary pool's home for a sneak preview. COME ON TM, you did not create this situation, your WW did.

Tell her that you will not live in a loveless marriage and that you did what you needed to do to protect her from herself and OM's intentions and save your family from heartbreak and if that is not something that is honorable then you are proud to be called dishonorable. Get your self respect back and quit making excuses for your WW.

My WW wanted nothing to do with me for about 4 months after her affair. She didn't have SF with me until 7 months after her affair ended. These things take time. Your WW is pissed for two reasons, withdrawal from OM and she feels guilty because she has been trying to tell herself that she has done nothing wrong, but you won't go for it. Eventually things will improve, but watch for contact.

so with out any hard evidence you think I still need to treat this like she was in EA? what if she never admits to an EA? Guess I'll just have to wait and see.
All I know for sure that I have in my favor is that all along I have told her how uncomfortable I was and she did very little to help me, other than tell me a bunch of stuff that he talked about that she new I wouldnt like to hear. I guess she felt as long as she was telling me the stuff it should be ok. Which I know she was wrong about.
I will just Plan A, and watch for contact. I dont think it will happen though, for some reason I think he thinks I'm a threat or something now, I'm just a typical redneck ya know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> for the record I never threatened anyone.
I may have to get a second job, or liquidate some stuff in the middle of all of this.

Yep.

When things improve get her on board with the MB philosophy of meeting ENs and avoiding LBs.

I see what you are saying. She said she wouldnt have liked it if I had done the same thing.

Its just going to take time, maybe she will see. Thanks for all the replies.
I'll keep ya'll posted.