I am still looking for the thread but having a horrendous time finding it. I am worried its gone in cyberspace.

I would swear her name was Karen... and the title was something like Karen's 1180 story.....

I'm thinking of you today and sending you strength!YOU CAN DO THIS!

Will write again tonight.

Any tips that you can give me will be appreciated!

I feel STRENGTH! I know I can do this... most of the time!

Thanks,
Sadmo

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CarolKh's Radical 180s-- post title is Hey CarolKh Can You Elaborate on Your Story

I found it! Yay! Just took an hour or so of digging. She gives GREAT ideas and I actually did use a few of them and STILL DO to this day.

I personally hated how much I would hang on my FWH's every word, move, and needs and not take care of my own. So my radical 180s were-- not answering some of his phone calls home (or to my dorm room-- long story but he convinced me to leave him & the kids behind and go to school, so I did), acting rushed to get to something else, and I stopped initiating any and all physical contact. I was always the one who initiated stuff and it killed me to be rejected so often by him. Let's just say this is no longer a problem.

I also started working out in the evenings when he was home-- instead of hanging around hoping he'd give me some crumbs of attention, I met my neighbors, went for two mile walks by myself, and started just getting up and saying, "Hey, I'm bored, I'll be back later." I would never, ever do things on my own before so you can imagine how topsyturvey he felt dealing with this 'new' person. I ended up losing thirty pounds. The definately got his attention.

I stopped emailing him at work-- he rarely responded anyway. I stopped calling him at work. I ended up having a husband who called me several times a day.

After my last d-day with him (and his last affair,which ocurrred while I was away at school, surprise, surprise...) I got *cold*-- I mean subzero temps with him. I made a Marine cry, Sadmo... that's how much he hated it. Once he went to counseling I returned home, because I was sick of th WORDS and I watched his ACTIONS. There's a lot of detail I'm leaving out, but the gist is, I made some big changes and it changed the way he saw me. I wasn't a weak, snivelling woman who needed him so that he could feel free to make all the decisions. Suddenly, he was dealing with a a woman who was more than happy to move on without him and he REALIZED I would do it. With my actions I showed him I would and to this day, he knows I will run, not walk, to the best divorce lawyer I can find if he ever so much as looks at another woman wrong. ((he was a serial adulterer, I have had my fill))

I did this all with a plan in mind. Put together one. Check out CarolKh's story and start working!

MojoDiva-

Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to find the thread, and for sharing your story!

I have been doing a 'lazy' 180... meaning most of the time I do it, but then when I see him, when we are switching kids, I tend to not always follow it. He has been lurking around more, and then I relax, and go right back into my 'comfort zone' with him. Which I KNOW is right where he wants me.

And the thing with my grandfather really had me down, and I really just wanted someone to hold me, and be there for me, and it is sad that I do not have THAT anymore... which made me be all emotional even more....

So I will read more, and thank you again!!!!

Sadmo

You know what I am realizing? I am realizing that I do not want to jeopardize my R (how it is even now) with my WH, because he is meeting some of MY emotional needs.

I am not like a touchy-feely person, unless I want you in my 'space' and there are very, very few people in that area. He was/is, still in my space. I sometimes just want to hug someone. And he is willing.

I am a loyal person. I am not one to just run off with another person, or jump into another R.

And, I still get some of what I need from my WH, even though it is just SOME, and it is what keeps me in limbo. I am keeping MYSELF in limbo. How silly. And how sad.

We are going to have to get Hospice for my grandfather, he had deteriorated. It made me sad. And I miss my H.

My WH has been SO nice lately...

I asked him if he could help out and watch the kids daily until my grandfather passes on, and he said that 'whatever he could do to help me, he would do'.

He came over tonight to watch the kids, and we all ended up going out to eat to dinner. He has been so nice. He replaced some lights that were out in my house, got the DD's ready for bed, and told me that he would come here tomorrow after work to watch the kids so I could see my grandfather. It touched me. I hugged him goodbye, and thanked him for being so nice throughout this. He said that, "I am more than happy to be nice to you, you have done so much for me in the past." I see this as a good thing. But, maybe he is just being nice for the moment? I do not know.

On a different note, it was sad... my grandfather is seeing people that are dead. He told me that he saw my grandmother, and she still looks good, and he saw his brother, and he had not seen him in a long time (he died I think 22 years ago)!

It is hard to see the dying process, and all. I will miss him so much, he is such a good man.

Sadmo,

My mother, who died March 4 this year, said a couple of weeks before her death that she had had a "visit" from her own mother. (Wearing her customary go-to-town white gloves, but not her hat, no less!) And that her mother had sat on the edge of my mother's bed, and talked with her a while, and assured her that no matter what, everything was going to be OK.

After that, my mother was very peaceful. And decided to end the cruelty of dramatic life-sustaining treatment, and let her body finish its business gracefully.

It was a real blessing.

What really happened? I may not know for quite some time, but I am grateful for the peace my mother received.

There is a lot of mystery in death.

In Limbo Land
Thank you for sharing. There is a lot of mystery. Hopefully it will be a blessing too.

I called my parents tonight and I told them that I loved them. We NEVER tell each other that... I do not know why. So I thought that I wanted to tell them that I did. It made both of my parents happy to HEAR me say it. I am glad that I did it. My growth as a person is still happening... I am glad.

Sadmo

So today WH comes over to watch the kids so that I could see my grandfather. My WH has been so nice lately. Yesterday he said something about maybe watching a movie with me tonight, but then he said that he is not feeling well (he is sick) so he wanted to cancel.

I do not know if I am just being super- emotional, or what because of my grandfather, and other things, but I got all testy with him. "So I guess that you can't ever do anything with me without the kids around. I see how it is." He protests, says maybe another day, I told him, "no, don't worry about it, I understand". He gets all annoyed with me. "See, it is a no win situation with you, if I watch the movie with you, then fine. But if it does not go EXACTLY YOUR WAY, it is not ok. I know this about you, I just cannot believe I thought that you had changed." So I snap back, "I just wanted to spend some ADULT time with you, without being interrupted, where you did not have to get up early for work, we have been getting along so well, I thought it would be nice!" What he did not know was that I heard him talking to his friend (male) about meeting him for a drink around ten, if he felt better. I do not know WHY I still let myself get insulted by him! He leaves. I called him. (I know....) I told him, "look, we have been getting along fine, I just thought that if we spent some nice time together it would be good for us." He says, "that is fine. How about next Wed.?" I say, "you know what, that is not going to work for me. If you want to do anything with me, you know how to get a hold of me." He says, "See, I try to meet you halfway. If you do not get exactly what you want, which is me to spend the evening with you, then you are not going to be happy." I told him, "You know what? Forget about it. I see that you still cannot hear what I am saying. Have a good night." I got off of the phone. I could tell by his voice it was not what he wanted to do (go out Wed. and he was going to 'appease' me, and be a cold person if we went out anyway, like last time), so I was not going to pursue it.

I sometimes wish that I had SOMEONE else that I could hug, and be close to, so that I would stop pining for WH, when I need some emotional closeness. What is sad is that he has been so nice to me, we have been getting along really well, and I let my hopes get up. I have just been sad about losing my grandpa soon probably, and now it has stirred up my emotions about losing my H. I am in a pathetic state right now.

Need someone to hug?
Hug your kids. Hug one of your female friends.

I am really hoping you will startlistening and disengage from him. You are now, due to his disrespect, losing ground in your Plan A and your lovebank will be depleted rapidly if this continues.

HE IS BEING NICE SO HE CAN STAY A WS AND KEEP YOU IN HIS POCKET.

Please listen to us. Its time to BACK OFF and work the 180s.

NOW. Not later. NOW.

I know, I know.

I do hug my kids, but I really do not hug my female friends... I have always kind of been that way.

I just had a pathetic moment yesterday.

Do you think that it is just possible that he is being nice because he wants to be nice, but then I am just getting the wrong idea? That kind of occurred to me last night... that he is feeling bad about my Grandfather (he used to be close to him) and that he is being nice because he wants to. And then here I am, being all sad about my Grandfather, and I am just looking at his niceness in the wrong light, because that is just what I want?

I am going to go on vacation from work in a week... I am hoping that I can get myself a little more under control. I am stressing about getting outside work done, the house really clean, staying caught up with work.

I just needed a soft place to fall, and I convinced myself that the man in front of me was my H, not my WH. Of course it wasn't, I just wanted it to be so.

I will go back to being the aloof Sadmo, and doing the 180's.

Thanks for the reality check. I was starting to wallow in self-pity there for a minute!
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Many WS's play the 'nice guy' especially when they know they are being selfish and bad. They do not want anyone to be able to look at them and say they are being nasty,so they pull out all the stops to look good to other people.

It benefits him to be nice to you, because then you don't cut him off, mess up his fantasy world, and then he can string you along as long as he wishes.

Don't look at him as your H-- your H would never move out and tell you he could keep it that way forever. Its just as boneheaded as the WS who asks his wife why can't she let him have his girlfriend, too.

A pity party is expected to happen. Just do NOT let him see it.
He needs to really believe you can and will be able to live life happily without him.

Chin up, its going to be alright.

Mojo-
I know it is going to be alright. I just had a bad moment. I allowed myself to wallow, which I have been trying to avoid.

In fact, he is not really seeing my 'poor me' attitude. Yesterday he asked me, with a lot of concern, "So how is everything going?" I thought he was referring to my grandfather, and I proceeded to tell him. He listened, then he said, "no. I meant here. How are things going at home, are you handling everything ok? You know, if you need me for anything, all you have to do is ask." I answered him honestly- "I am doing fine, but thanks."

So when he came over to watch the kids while I worked, he made a big point of hugging me when he walked in the door (I just stood there). He told me that he did not 'know why I was being this way' he was happy we had been getting along so good. I told him that we are getting along fine, it does not mean that I need to hug him though. He left it alone.

So on my way to work it hits me. He did not "ALLOW" me to be anything to him BUT our kids mother after they were born. And that is basically what happened to us. No leisure time ALONE together, no going out together. I was just put in the 'mother of my kids' category. I was not someone to have fun with, or socialize with anymore. I was now a MOM. End of story.

So when he dropped the kids off, I said to him, "Has it ever occurred to you that you were not letting me be anything other than the mother of your kids? Even when we were together?" And he said, "I actually just was thinking about that. I agree." So I said, "what do you think about it?" And he said, "it suits me well to have everything in my life in compartments. I am not too close to anyone, therefore I am not going to be hurt or controlled by anyone. And I have less of a chance of hurting anyone if I am upfront about my beliefs."

I said, "ok... I guess that it suits you well." I told him goodbye, and he left.

So it really has me thinking. Does anyone who feels the way that he does 'snap' out of it, and decide that that is NOT the way that they would want to live? Or is this just babble? It kind of makes sense with how he has been acting.

I am just curious. I am going to re-implement the 180's, and go from there. I just was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on 'super compartmentalizing".

So today the WH comes to drop off the kids after I get off of work. He had them at his new 'friends' house to go swimming today. (makes me SICK, but I did not act like it). I was cutting the grass when he got here. I finished, and then he asked me how my dad was doing. I said did you mean my grandfather, not my dad? And he puts his arm around me and says, "no, your dad. It was so hard to lose my dad when I did. I just hope that your dad is ok." I told him that my dad had told me that he felt that he was lucky to have his father around for as long as he did.

My WH just stood there, with his arm around me, talking about this and that. Again, like the OLD H. Nice, calm, caring.

I had talked to his one friend today that had kind of distanced himself from my H, and he told me that my WH is not really a WH, he is just a free guy. I asked him what he was talking about, and he said that my WH is not with anyone, and that he is just enjoying having no responsibilities. Which, may just be true. But, no matter, he is not here with me and the kids. He said that the girls that my WH is hanging around are just 'fun relaxed people' (I knew one of them for 20 years- my sister's friend) and that they just hang out for fun.

So it comes down to this. I am not really a 'fun, relaxed person'. Sure, I can be fun. I can sometimes even relax. But I have always been more of an energetic presence. Into what I am doing. Focused. Always doing something. Not one to just lay around and relax. There is always something that can be done (even if it is go on the computer!). I always have a list in my head of what I am going to get done, and when the list is done, I feel happy, like I got a great deal accomplished.I have close friends. Not a HUGE circle, but the friends that I have are GOOD friends. This is how my dad is too. And he is happy. I am generally happy.

My WH or H, is NOT at all that type of person. He is mellow, laid back, not super inquisitive (like me), goes with the flow. Likes to hang out, do nothing, chill. hang out with a lot of people. A few close friends, mostly casual friends.

Which was GREAT when we had no kids. Great when we had one kid. TERRIBLE when we had more responsibility. I kicked into efficient overdrive. I have been trying to mellow out some. But, the fact of the matter is, I am who I am. I am not obsessive. I just like a plan, I like order.

So, my whole rambling point is.... is there any hope for me and my H? It seems that he is embracing more of the 'laid back' lifestyle that I 'robbed' him of (My words not his). I do not fit into that lifestyle. I am not included at all. Does anyone know what I mean? Is there any hope for 2 people that are apparently pretty different?

I kind of worry that the new 'friend' of his (the easy going, relaxed, dare I say "cool" friend) may 'win' him with her own plan "A" of being everything that I am not, or probably could be... considering I am a mom now.

Any thoughts? I just kind of feel like, after much thought, that we would not be able to mesh anymore anyway. Our 'lifestyles' are too different anymore. Or are they?

Well, my grandfather died last night. It happened so quickly, that it is good. He was a good man. I will miss him. My WH came over today to give me a hug, and he offered to go to the wake and funeral with me. So that was nice.

I am just so sad right now.I know that he is in a better place, he had been having a hard time. But it still is sad to think that I will never be able to go over and talk to him or anything anymore. I am glad that I did though. I have no regrets about that.

(((Sadmo)))
Just remember you can talk to your grandfather whenever you wish-- he will hear you.
Concentrate on yourself and your family and 'just be' for a little while (without backsliding into old behaviors with WH).

Sending you strength and caring!

I hope ORchid comes back to help you again soon. You may wish to ask Mimi too... she learned the hard way why a half-way done plan doesn't work.

Take care of yourself and your family first!

Thanks Mojo-

I fear that I have slid a little. WH asked me if I would go with him and the girls to Chuckecheese. My oldest has been missing him, and she wanted to go there. I know he asked because I was sad. So I said sure. He went home, got changed, and came here. I have been in a funk all day. The thought that I cannot go and see my grandfather anymore, or talk to him, and have him tell me his stories anymore is just so sad to me.

And, I have not told my kids yet. They are young, the oldest knew he was sick. She has been having a hard time with missing her daddy lately, and now her great-grandpa is gone? I just do not know what to say. I will think of something though.

So WH comes over, we go, we have fun with the girls. It was nice. Then my DD says, "daddy, I want you to have a sleep over." He says no he can't. She starts crying. It breaks my heart. He tells her that she will be staying the weekend with him. She cries harder. He helplessly looks at me, I just looked away. He never sees this side of her. He never sees her being so distraught like she was. So he tried to smooth things over. He asked me if he could come here after work tomorrow to see the kids. (I will be at work) I told him sure. He seemed all upset when he left. That is fine.

What I am saying is that he has been filling my EN's that I need filled (bare minimum) right now. He has been calling, being nice, etc. I do not want to slip, but I want to have someone to lean on right now. At least until the funeral is over. Is that bad of me?

How should I proceed???

I am sorry to hear of your grandfather. This is hard and you need to grieve. But I would NOT let the WS fulfill your needs. If possible let him know his 1/2 hearted hugz are not sufficient. He can't hug then be cold, then hug, then cold... it is very bad for you and the children. He must choose and if he wants to abandon his family, then hugz from such a character are not welcomed.

It is a hard stance at such a difficult time but it may make an impression. He needs to miss you, not fill a need and then leave you frustrated....wanting and wondering if more will come.

Instead he needs to wonder and wonder a lot about how you are doing.

JMHO,
L.

Orchid,
sorry to interrupt you in this thread, but could you please come over to to bsj220's thread and help out a little????

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