Sadmo:
I haven't caught up on your thread completely, but just thought I would chime in.

If you want to know about how ugly WSs can get, read my first first post on my first thread. Never mind, I'll summarize:

OW (aka Rat Turd) had me tossed in jail. I could be a poster girl for gainfully employed, college educated, middle class soccer mom. Never had so much as a parking ticket. When I was at my absolute bottom, I lost it and she called the cops on me (after I left her house after finding WH there).

Not good. Not good at all. And WH filed for D while I was in the pokey. And he defended RT's decision to call the police. And RT was a "friend" of mine; our kids played together and we went out as couples. Nice, eh?

And before d-day (6-28-06), WH was a creep a LOT of the time. The A has been going on for three years now. I would cry and beg him to tell me what was the matter; why he was so distant; I thought he was depressed, yada yada.

Are you vomiting yet? I tell you this just to demonstrate that I KNOW how bad it is, how bad it can get. I'm still waiting for someone who has a story to top mine! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(don't get me wrong, I'm not proud of it, but it happened, I'm dealing with it, and I am trying to learn something about myself and grow from the experience...it didn't kill me, so it might as well make me stronger)

After I got my feet under me a little, started eating and sleeping, and asked for HELP, I began a Plan A. I did it for as long as I could, and now I'm in a dark Plan B...ten weeks now.

Why? Why bother? To use your words, "how much more do I need to take?"

These are MY reasons.
1. I made a promise. To God, to myself, to H, to our families and everyone in the church that day, and to the kids we hadn't had yet (we now have two boys, 8 and 11). I do not take that lightly...I feel like I HAVE to do whatever I can to keep that promise.

2. Divorce is awful for kids long term. If you do not believe me, read Judith Wallerstein's book, "The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce." She did a 25-year longitudinal study of families who divorced and compared them with families in which the parents had problems, but opted to stay together. Very compelling reading. You won't forget it.

3. I believe in my H. He was a honorable, wonderful, loving, caring man. I can't give up on him, even if everyone else--including himself--has. On his deathbed, my dad asked WH to look out for my mom. So it wasn't just ME that thought he was someone very special...my dad was an excellent judge of character. He knew how to read people.

4. I'm a realist and a pragmatist, but I want to set a moral example for my boys. I want them to know that they have a right and a responsibility to stand up for what is right. Divorce is not right, and I do not want my boys to grow up with the idea that marriage is a temporary state, that people are disposable, and that doing what feels good--in spite of who you hurt--is justification for anything. Standing up for my marriage in the face of adultery is standing up for what is right.

5. Divorce is bad all around...it is finacially devastating, divorced people are in poorer health, it represents the breakdown of society.

Soooo.....I made a decison that I would fight for my marriage. I'm doing the MB plan.

I don't know why I've recounted all of this to you, except to say that even though the decision to D might be very very reasonable given what's happened, you are married, and you do have kids, and for me, I need to do WHATEVER I can to try to keep my promise and protect my kids from living under a cloud of divorce the rest of their lives.

This isn't going away. There's no rush. Give yourself some time--say three months--of a good, dark Plan B. Get a support order in place first, so you are covered financially. That will give you a feel for what a D will be like.

Would you buy a car without test driving it? Think of this as a D test drive. It can't hurt, can it? And it might help...give you some space, give him some space, lose the drama, start to breathe.

I would just encourage you not to rush in to anything. You've been married how long? Was he a jerk when you married him? You have how many kids? For all that, can you just give it three months, then re-evaluate?

I'm biased...I know. But I'm just trying to give you some food for thought.

Good luck!
LilSis

SL, LilSis....

WHACK!!!

Did you guys hear that?

That was me at the lawyers office. Getting a reality check. Unfortunately I live in a state where, since I did not file for a LSA when he left, half our our marital assets, and DEBTS would be split 50/50.

WHAT?????

I am responsible, I save money, he blows through money, and all of the credit card debt, new mustang debt, half of that MINE???????

The room almost started to spin.

My money, my stability, my security can be touched. YES. What if I 'hide' my money. The lawyer said that if my WH suspects that I am hiding any, that they could pull bank statements for up to a year. To see if money was socked away.

WOW. WOW. WOW.

He actually recommended the LSA since it will stop me from acquiring his debt, and during that time, he would not be able to acquire any of my money.

I am shaking. I am stunned. I am sad.

I thought it would be in my best interest. Now it is going to be ANOTHER blow to me. I am tired. I just want this to end, without any more damage being done to me.

Sigh.

So I talked to WH tonight. Just to see where he stands on the whole D thing.

I asked him if he would consider a LSA that we can have for up to a year, and then file for a D if we are certain. He said yes.

During this time he would get vested in his savings plan at work, a NICE sum of money. I would get HALF. I can think of 'clever ways' to spend money. Then the money would be mine.

And... it would give our M one last shot. I do not know how long this would last, if things got serious between him and OW. I do not know.

So he wanted to talk about his situation, and where he stands. (Blah, blah, blah talk)
Here is the gist:
- She broke up with him, because he did not want a R with her. After they were broke up for a week, he realized that he missed her. She also got frustrated that he was not filing for a D. He told her that he did not have the money too. She also got upset with him over the time that he had spent with me the week my grandfather died.

-She is Cool. Easy to get along with. They have had a few arguments, but they were over quickly, and it was not a big deal (like our arguments had been)

-He enjoys spending time with her and her kids. He loves spending time with his kids and our kids together. It is so...nice. He can't explain it. It just goes so well, and everyone has so much fun.

-Part of the other reason that they broke up is that he would not let her get close to him. He was too afraid. Now he has learned his lesson, and he will be close to the next person, or her, whenever that opportunity arises.

-He has missed her sense of humor, and her relaxed attitude. The only pressure he felt with her was when she wanted a R,a and he told her no.

-That I just do not understand how he feels about her. He used to feel that way about me, but does not anymore. He has tried SO HARD (snort!) to reconnect with me since he was gone, before he met her, and he knows that he will not feel the way he feels about her, with me, ever again. He CANNOT allow himself to be hurt like that.

-That we should just try to be friends. And somewhere down the road, maybe if we are both single, we will get back together again. He told me to not hold out any hope.

-He is so sorry that he gave me the wrong idea, he was hoping that he would spend that time with me, and want to be with me again, and it did not happen.

I know that this situation is not unique. I know this.
Since he is withdrawing off of a R with her, and we are not together at all, he said that he does not want to get back together, the likelihood of him hooking back up with her is pretty high. And then it blowing into a full fledged affair.
He thinks that he loves her now. And I am sure that he would go out of his way to prove it to her. He sees her as this wonderful 'gift' that he may have lost, since he would not proclaim his love to her.

Maybe they are meant to be together? They seem to have a lot in common- putting their kids around people that they are seeing, going out and partying, doing fun things with their kids, and other people, going swimming, into hot tubs, with their kids sitting there.

Someone, please advise me. I am feeling a little bewildered. I do not know what to do. I am confused. I am numb. I quite actually feel shell shocked. No tears, just an empty hissing in my head.

The old Sadmo is coming back. And I am Sad. :-(

((((Sadmo))))

Give yourself some time to process this. Please believe me when I say that I know what you are going through. Maryland is an 'equitable' state, so I stood to lose my home, half of my retirement and half of anything that we've acquired, because WH and I made about the same amount of money.

Hang in there Sadmo, you can do this. I initiated my LSA right after WH left last year. It's a good safety measure for you, and you can work out a lot before any divorce filings, inluding such things as child support, legal custody, physical custody, visitation, spousal support, alimony (to pay mortgage if house is not to be sold), you can work out staying in the home for X amount of time prior to sale. Go big initially, too, then whittle it down from there.

I have to warn you that there is no possible way to avoid the things that you fear most right now. The pain is a by-product of the disemination of your family and your foundation being shattered. YOU must begin to rebuild. Start with the LSA, get some legality behind you, get the monetary support that you need, and cut your WH off from his YOU supply.

Sadmo, you can do this. I hear your strength. Take a breather. Is there something that relaxes you, or that you like to do to recharge? Can you get family to help with the kids while you do this?

SL,
I can do this. I just don't want to.

I know, I need to.

I am so freaked out right now.

If I did not have so much to lose, I would file for a D immediately.

He loves another woman.

The lawyer recommended the LSA for me. He said that this would be a good time to see if we were not going to get back together, my WH seems confused. Also so that I would have 'time' to get all of my ducks in a row, and, ahem, some of them hidden. When I started to get upset about the fact that I have a nice car that is almost paid off, and that the CAR, that I saved for, and am trying to pay off quickly, would actually be equity for our marital estate. Whereas his older car, would be a liability!

When I said to the lawyer, slack jawed, "you mean, because I was a responsible person, responsibly married, responsible financially, I am the one that stands to be screwed?????" His answer, "YES. I am sorry. We could try to work a few things but........"

How is that for fairness. My H abandons the M (admittedly with me pushing him out the door), racks up a ton of debt, starts dating, and falls in love with, another woman, gets a sports car (used), AND I GET SCREWED because I did not want to rush into a D. And, I get to pick up a lot of his debt, if I file right now. AND, I would lose a lot of the money I have accumulated. AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!


No, my family can't take the kids while I recharge.My WH is going to have the weekend with the kids. I will be alone then. But I have to work.

I feel lost again. I do not know what to do.

Sadmo:
Hope my earlier post didn't add to your woes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I second SL's advice. Take a breather. Your head must be spinning right now. Your attorney can begin to work out those details for the LSA so that you have some security and stability.

That is a clear short term goal. Get the LSA to protect yourself. After that, you can work on you, on rounding up all that strength and directing it toward you instead of wasting it on a WH.

I'm really sorry that you are going through this, Sadmo. But you can do it. Your WH sounds typical....talking from the script. Mine talks from the same script, and he's still wayward as can be, but it does give me some comfort to know that at least the words are not unusual.

I've thought the same thing: maybe they ARE meant to be together. But I don't think that's so...I usually feel that way on the bad days.

I'm sure you ARE numb. This is normal. You have sustained a shock. Take it one step at a time, one day at a time, one hour at a time.

Get the attorney working on the LSA...that's his job. You take care of YOU, in whatever way you can. SURROUND yourself with your support system. Post here. You will always find people here who understand what you are feeling. You can do this.

You took a step today...one you didn't want to have to take, but it is an important step. Be proud of yourself for that. It was not easy, but you are protecting yourself and the kids; and you are also giving yourself time to process everything and not REact from an emotional place.

((((sadmo))))

Just read your post...I'm really sorry, sadmo.

I don't think he loves this skanky OW. He's behaving like an adolescent, not an adult, so that relationship can only be at the depth of a high school infatuation. IMHO.

In time, this will not be so raw and shocking. A good night's sleep, talking to friends or family, keeping busy, staying connected...these will all help.

I know the financial stuff is a nightmare. But--I can't believe I'm saying this--it's only money. Debt, credit cards...that's all workable.

Perspective, okay? You have your kids. You have a job. You are still breathing. You can do this. I know you don't want to. I know this is not fair. I know this is not what you signed up for. But you are a strong woman and you can do it.

For what it's worth...the fact that you are freaked out right now is exactly why you SHOULD NOT file for a D. That is a decision that should not be made when emotions are running high. You know this, right? Let the legal system wheels move.

Believe me, going through a D is NOT what you need right now. It is a nightmare. You need to be in a better place, stronger, before you step into THAT ring.

You okay? Because I have to go to bed...

Well, I see this as an opportunity for you to put back on your Sadmo 180 for a while; reel him back in and get him to sign, witnessed by an attorney, a postnuptual agreement, assigning his debt to him, your assets to you, in the event he goes back to his cheating ways.

it would take a couple months to set this up, but it's doable.

LilSis-
No your post did not add to my woes. I really would like my M to survive, but I feel beaten down when it comes to it. How much negativity can I take?

And I had talked to a different lawyer in the office before, and they had said that the debt that he accumulated would not be my concern. When I freaked out about it today, that is because they thought I said that I HAD a LSA!!!!

Arghhhh!!!!!!!!

Part of me now is screaming "Just get the D, so this will all end!!!! D, D, D!!"

My security, my money that I have saved so hard for. Could be gone. This is so terrible. I really and truly thought that it would go in my favor, being the main caregiver of the kids.

I know that I need to calm down. My mind is racing... and the funny thing is, not because he said that he loved someone else. But because my financial security is in jeopardy.

One last thing. He said that if I got the LSA, he was fine with that. If I said in it that he could not bring the kids around anyone he was dating he would file for the D himself. When I told him that it would be written in the agreement for the D too, he said, "whatever would be quicker. If I am happy with someone, I want my kids to see this, and spend time with someone who makes me happy. Don't worry, you will always be their mother." WHAT THE F is that????? So I said, calmly, "You are wanting to share your adulterous love with our 2 and 4 year olds? WHY? Don't you get enough time with her when they are not around, the time that you have with them is so precious, why would you want to spend that time with her too?" He said, "because I was happy with her."

I DO NOT WANT MY KIDS AROUND HER. I DO NOT WANT THIS.
:-(

KA-
If that is doable, why did my lawyer not mention that???

How would I go about that?

Any advice?

LS-
The lawyer said that I should spend a good week really thinking about what I want to do before I decide. After the financial stuff freaked me out.

I know. I am just stressed.

Thanks for the kind words.

The lawyer said the same thing. That it would take me some time to recover financially, but I would be fine.

:-(

Your lawyer doesn't know about 180s or anything like that. It takes a scheming, highly adapted middle child to think of that kind of strategy.

Ask your attorney about a postnuptual agreement in the event that your husband wants to get you back on the roller coaster again... That's his ticket for your ride <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

KA-

So are you suggesting INSTEAD of plan B, I do the 180's? And get him to sign the postnumptial agreement?

I am a middle child, and I did not think of that!

So, 180 him, get him in MY good graces, present him with this agreement, have him sign it, and then BAM!

It sounds like a plan....

Sadmo - I spent half the night last night reading and studying your thread. I have no advice to offer you, as I am in a situation with a H who is eerily similar to yours. (I swear 1/2 the things your WH said to you, mine has said to me word-for-word!) So, I just wanted to let you know that you, your well-being, and your family are in my prayers.

YES YES and YES.
I am unfortuantely having to help my baby sister with this exact scenario. She is married to a sex addict who has refused counselling. Her plan is for the next year, as his military service provides medical care for her three kids (two are hers froma previous abusive marriage and they'd lose medical care with a divorce) and she'd accrue more of his pension by staying a bit longer (he gets out in three years). In this time she will get her GED, pay off their debts (he accumalated $30k in debts behind her back!!!), and pay off her car.

Listen to Kay, she's smart! I'm sure Pep would be a big help, too.

Well...It might cost you a lil' interest, but you could "fritter" some of that money away... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

As for your car, you could take out a loan on it and...ummm..."fritter" that money away... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

And, then, when it comes to a financial settlement, there would be no money found to split, and the car would have a debt on it...that you would assume in addition to keeping the car.

Then...after the divorce, you "somehow" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> come up with the money to pay the loan off. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"Somehow", you manage to rebuild your savings... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the advice.
I have to take some time to process all of this. I am actually kind of shocked by all of this today...

I went out with some friends after work, had a few drinks, laughed, had a great time. That is what I needed.

I am kind of shocked, yet not shocked. It is actually a strange combination.

I will be fine. I just need a solid plan.

I have to completely agree with LC on that...

You're not alone in your feelings...I have often felt that way in my sitch with STBX...

It's a matter of protecting yourself at this point!

I am confused today.

I do not know what to do, or how to be when it comes to WH.

I talked to my friends, and one of my long time male friends said to me, "Look Sadmo, he is not telling you that he made a mistake with her, and that he wants to try to work things out with you. He is telling you, "I am scared to even think about it, but meanwhile, I am waiting to see if I can get back with her, to see how it will be."

Which is true. Which is a slap in my face. Which has me offended right now. Completely offended. Insulted.

Right now, I feel like just filing for the D. Being done with him. Taking the hit financially.

At least he would not be able to have the kids around EOW (evil other woman) IF she decided to give him another chance. How messed up is that that he wants to 'share his happiness with his 2 and 4 year olds'. I think that that is SICK. And it almost makes me sick thinking about it. I asked him if he 'f*cks her in front of the kids, so he can be sure and share his happiness with them. (I know, a little extreme, but meant to get my point across, since he is so stupid).

I want to be done. I am considering talking to him, asking him to take a chunk of money, and since he left his family, with out giving it a real chance, he could give me that much at least. Then he will be free and clear to pursue any other R. But the money would just be enough so that his bills that he racked up would be paid. He would not be reaping the rewards of my responsibility.

What do you guys think? I just want the ball rolling now. I do not want to wait 10 months for his thing at work to vest.

What is the kicker to me is that he met this girl in Jan. He left last July. He had not done anything up until that point to act like he wanted to work things out. He went into a new R. He did not try to recover our R. Sure he would throw out the 'maybe' bones, but that was that. He never would give it a chance. He did NOT want to give it a chance. He still does not want to give it a chance. I am worth more than that.

What does anyone think about what I am saying? Am I being rational? Do you think he just might take the chunk of money?

Thanks. I need all the advice I can get right now.

Leave him.... the money will all work itself out in the end... you will consider it a bargain to be free of his crapp no matter the cost.
You are worth more than this and the longer you let this go, the worse it is going to be for you. And one other thing to consider...the longer you wait, the more opportunity he has to roll up more debt.

It is time to let this loser go so that you can begin to have the type of life you deserve.

MEDC