I just want to add that a lot of these 'incidents' (for lack of a better word) happened very early in our relationship, when we first moved to the city and didn't make a lot of money, took the public transport together etc. They were also some of the happiest moments of the R during those times, when life was simpler and we didn't have so many responsibilities (work or otherwise) to worry about.

Things were really a lot better the last few years, though I guess its human nature that the bad stuff stays in your memory a LOT longer than the happy or good stuff.

[/quote]I was manipulative by using emotional blackmail to get my way. Pretty childish I'd admit, but I would give the 'silent treatment' to my wife when I was not happy about something until she came around to seeing it MY way.[/quote]

These are definitely passive/aggressive tactics. And if they had your wife "crying out in frustration" - well, please do read those links in my sig line below, especially the first one.

I do respect you for trying to make things better, though. It ain't easy. But you will get much support here for that sort of thing.
Mulan

Well to add some clarity:

I suggested specifically that you send her a letter containing ONLY the contents that we applauded in that phone call...guess why?

Because I instinctively knew that you would have a hard time refraining from turning the letter into an attempt to lecture or bulldoze.

I LOVED the way you made clear, respectfull boundaries in the phone call...all of that went right out the window when you created a letter.

So you say that you are aware of your control issues and are working on it.

Fair enough. What are you doing to work on it?

I am concerned that you say you are working on it because my impression is that you have been admitted to it only with a lot of dismissal..sort of like.."yeah that's true..oh well onto more important things!" and I really think that THIS issue is a very important indicator of your potential to ever really sustain a relationship.

Let's take the dishcloth example that you used to illustrate the dynamic.

You say you scolded your wife. I'm going to ask you to look closesly at that choice of words.

SCOLDED. Really? You scolded a grown woman? And lived? None of the sensitive areas of the body received blunt trauma?


Personally I'm of the mind that person doing the job determines how it's done..in division of labor we all have our area of operation and it's best not to poke your nose in and demand your preferences unless you are extremely bothered by something specific and even then it would be a thoughtfull request or a poja matter.

After all I doubt you'd appreciate her showing up at your job and critiquing your work much less scolding you in a matter you consider your own territory.


So let's look again with new eyes.

You come onto her personal space [how she does a job] make a selfish demand in a disrespectfull way and then proceed to have a tempertantrum [angry outburst].

Well how very attractive.

And about 4 LB's in just one little incident. Wowee...going for the gold oh ambitious one?

I think it's really foundational to first LEARN what belongs to you to control and what does not. What is your property and under your sovereignty and not only CAN you control it as completely as you could ever hope for...you SHOULD it's your job. You protect yourself and you protect others from yourself by doing this.

I really like Bundaries by Cloud and Townsend as a groundfloor introduction. I'm sure plenty of people who have been studying boundaries could give alternatives suggestions...you may also want to stop by the recovery board Patriot has a thread going specifically about what he is studying and I'm sure he'd love some feedback ..his thread is something like 21 days to a great marriage.

Noodle... thank you for that well deserved 2x4. And thanks for pointing me in the direction of Patriot's thread, a very interesting read, and I can say that I really saw myself in the last part about immaturity. I will try to get the book and read it myself.

Initially, I wanted to reply to your posting by saying that while I know some of the way I behaved before all of this was totally self-centered, childish and disrespectful to my spouse, I was going to say 'which BS was the perfect partner and had no skeletons in their closet?' How can THAT compare to her having an affair?

However, I declined to post and spent the entire morning pondering on the points you and mys raised. I still do really feel ashamed when I think of the temper tantrums I raised, and like Patriot mentioned in his thread, that I sub-consciously made my spouse responsible for my happiness.

We didn't grow because we were constantly, though sub-consciously, having expectations of each other, which when unfulfilled, turned into resentment which was subsequently buried but not forgotten.


These 4 really struck a nerve with me, and I realized I was guilty of them all, at one point or another.

However, and this is not to defend myself in any way, I realized that I have contributed to 50% of the state of my marriage, and that realization has made it possible for me to keep telling her "Lets give this one more try" when I would have just kicked her to the curb after D-day and then justify that it was ALL her fault. And really, for me, the childish, control freak to tell her "Its your decision to make, I won't stop you if you choose to go" almost killed me, seriously. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But this whole experience has taught me that trying to manipulate the situation, and to control someone else either by threats of exposure etc, simply does not work, but is WRONG. Despite that, I guess it still surfaces quite a bit, as you guys have pointed out in my postings.

At the end of the day, I need to ask myself: What do I want? And the answer is that I want her back, with all my heart, but not as the WS but as the W. I will work on a better plan B letter, its a long shot because of my crappy plan A, but I'll give it a try. Thanks

I'm confused somewhat between:

1. plan B ("I still love you, but want to have NC with you because I will lose my love for you everytime we speak and LB, here are my conditions if you want to return to the marriage etc"), and

2. plan Larry ("If you want to continue seeing this OP and move out, then thats it, its over unless you are willing to meet the 3 conditions etc")

The advise I've been getting, and indeed, what I myself have been feeling, is that I want to move on, to show WS that with or without her, I will walk on by without ever looking back should she make her decision to really walk out of this M, because that decision is her's to make. I will no longer try to control her decisions.

Wouldn't a 'classic' plan B letter be saying the opposite? That I'm still pining away for her, and want to have NC with her so that I can protect whatever love I have remaining for her?

Just trying to get more opinions while I think of how to word my letter. Thanks

Attempt Number 2:

---------------------------------------------------
Dear WS,

I hope this email finds you well, and wish you a safe trip to the US.

We have many problems in our marriage, and we were both responsible for choosing not to fix them and to let things fester until it has reached this point. I really am sorry for the many times I've hurt you with my inconsiderate words and by not respecting you as an EQUAL partner in this relationship. It is when you are faced with losing someone you truly love that you begin to realize how much better things could have been. I cannot change the past, but I am taking steps to change myself for the future. Besides reading, Iwill also be resuming counselling with Theresa, because I'm not happy with who I've become and I need to change in order to grow. It may be too late to save this marriage, but I need to do it for myself.

When I married you, I expected to be married for LIFE. I made that commitment before God that I would "honour and love you, in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health, till death do us part". You said the other night that you didn't miss me at all, that you have already "more or less" made up your mind to leave. Well, *I* have missed you and I'm still committed to this marriage. However, I also recognize that the decision to walk away, as is the
desision to continue seeing the butch, is one which only you can make. While I still love you very much, I cannot commit to a marriage where there is no honesty, commitment and fidelity to each other and I'm sure you will agree with me that those are basic REQUIREMENTS in any marriage..

I have had many good memories from our marriage, and I thank you for them. It was not as bad as you remembered - we can learn from the bad and carry on doing what was good, and I promise you, and we can make this marriage better and stronger than before.

As I've mentioned the other day, I have started to move on with my life. While I would most certainly love to have the woman I married walk this journey beside me, I will carry on with or without you. The decision whether to return home and take up my 3 conditions in wholely yours to make, but if you do decide to give it a try, we will do it TOGETHER. However, if you choose not to come back then I will respect that decision and move on.

I am not pressuring you to make a decision, however, I will need to try and pick up the pieces and carry on, and I cannot do it while I am constantly reminded of you. That said, I will pack up your stuff after my family leaves next week and you can come by
and collect them at a convenient time, hopefully by mid-May or so, as I understand you're travelling a bit more with this new job. After that I hope we will not communicate with each other again until a firm decision is made, either way.

I would be lying if I said I did not still love you. How can I not love the woman who has been my entire life these last 5 years? I pray you can dig deep into your heart and re-discover some of that love you had for me before its too late.

Love
BS

devastated

First of all, Happy Easter, if you celebrate it.

I'm going to answer a few things out of order and jump around a bit. I'll be back later to address your letter after I've had a chance to mull it over a bit.


Oooh! Oooh! Oooh! I know this one!!

Nothing you've done (or are likely to do) will ever compare to how awful, stinking bad her affair was and..... so....... therefore she should come back and do whatever it takes to make you happy for the rest of her life and if you're controlling, manipulative, selfish, self centered, disrespectful to her, and refuse to allow her to be an equal partner in the marriage then, well, you should be excused because, after all, what she did was much worse. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Look, devastated, the first part of the above sentence actually IS true. Your wife has committed just about the gravest marital offense that can be committed (probably short of actually physically injuring or killing you). Because of this, you absolutely have the moral ground to divorce her and move on with your life without her - find another partner who won't rip your heart out, toss it on the ground, and jump up and down on it. You also have the option to decide to recover your marriage. My personal ethics say that if you decide to recover your marriage then it needs to ultimately become (maybe not right at the beginning when you're still recovering) a full partnership between the both of you where you both get to be happy and have your needs met.

Sitting around dwelling on how what she did was more awful than anything you ever did is not conducive to creating that environment, is it?

There really isn't going to be anything she can do to EVER make this up to you and excusing punishing or bad behavior for yourself because of what SHE DID just makes you abusive, too.

I somehow think that you've misunderstood the point of me telling you what I told you about your behavior. I'm not excusing or justifying her affair. Your behavior didn't cause her affair, her choices did. Your behavior won't cause her to choose the affair over your marriage. That's her choice too. You have no ownership in this. My point certainly was not to say that what you did was so bad that "no wonder" she ran off and had an affair and that you somehow deserved it -- because you didn't! My point in bringing it up was not to say "Hey devastated, if you don't stop x, y, z, of COURSE she's going to choose the OW."

My point in bringing it up was to get you thinking (for your plan b letter) about ways that you BOTH will have to work towards recovery if she decides to return home. One part of that is going to be accountability, transparency, no contact, etc. from her. The other part of that (cogent to you building a mutually satisfying relationship) is going to be your plan to end your controlling, manipulative, grandstanding, etc. behaviors. So, as you go through listing things you should require for her return to the relationship, it might be a good idea to also put in there things that YOU plan to work on (with action plan details) in order to make the relationship better and safer for her. I envision a sort of a balancing act or the "full terms" of the contract, so to speak.

Normally, the BS doesn't include those things in the Plan B letter so this is a departure from the conventional method. The reason that I mention it in your case is because your Plan A didn't go so well. The usual point OF Plan A is to demonstrate (through action) what the BS is willing to do in order to make the relationship happy for the WS (eliminating LB's and meeting needs). I thought maybe it would be a good idea for you to mention them in your letter since things didn't go as well as we'd have liked.

Now that we've hopefully got that cleared up, back to some of what you said earlier.


You WERE abusive, my friend. Emotional blackmail is emotional abuse and it can be just as damaging as physical abuse. Emotional abuse does terrible things to a person's spirit.


This is the classic abuse cycle. The abuse occurs. The abuser feels remorse and a honeymoon period happens. Until the next time.


Nothing except quit with the head games and emotional blackmail...


Do you see how you're minimizing what happened? It's really hard for us to accept your words that you feel this is a SERIOUS problem (not just in this relationship but in potential others) when in the very next breath you try to convince us that it really wasn't that bad.

It's either a SERIOUS problem that you have to fix or it's not that bad *shrug*.

Which is it?


It's serious except that it didn't happen that often and you were always sorry after and you still had a good marriage and there were good times in between and she wasn't always unhappy and besides most of the really bad stuff was in the beginning of the relationship and isn't she in a fog anyway and...

*shakes her head*


Oh sure! I think there's lots of hope.

Here's what I really think, devastated. I think you're a really nice guy who can be an absolutely stellar husband. I think you have some very bad habits and poor coping mechanisms. I also think you're incredibly bright and can learn new tools and new ways of doing things that will not only be better for people around you -- but will actually get you more of what you want with less effort. I think you can learn them quickly if you put your mind to it. You've probably heard the phrase "diamond in the rough"? I don't even think you're quite in the "rough" anymore.. .but rather all ready in the process of being polished. I think your wife will regret it sooner rather than later if she makes the wrong choice.

It all depends on when you make the decision to let go of other people's outcomes and leave behind your need/desire/anxiety about controlling events and manipulating people. I think when you start acting from your own core values instead of acting in ways designed to provoke a specific action from someone else -- you'll be "there." You can't quite seem to do that yet. But, you're thinking about it.


I think you're making this a lot harder than it really has to be because you just haven't been able to let go of manipulating outcomes yet.

Why not just tell her the truth. I've yet to see a situation on this board where I thought to myself "What this situation needs is just a little more dishonesty."

So, which is it:


You still love her but you need no contact with her because you are rapidly loosing your love for her (not to mention you're having a hard time keeping your fingers out of the pot) but you're willing to wait a bit before declaring it's over?

~OR~


You've had about all the waiting you can stand and you're willing to call it "over" (which I presume means you're filing for divorce) unless she's willing to come back right now.

Which of those two states would you say is your personal truth or is closest to your personal truth?
When you can make that decision based on JUST YOU and how you feel and your core values then you're taking a step away from needing to manipulate or (stratgically place her in a position that makes it more likely for her to do what you want).

Think about it.

Mys

dev, I agree with mys and noodle...great advice. I am also reading "Boundaries" and it is life altering.




dev....what you want... "to move on".... is not possible...whether you like it or not you are not "over" your M or "over" your W. you can chose to "move on" but what does that entail in your mind? saying those words will not change what you feel in your heart..... in actuality you still have love for your W. that will take time to deal with....whether you say to her "its over" or not. your heart will not flip a switch and stop feeling, stop hurting. many of us in plan B have whined over the injustice of having to live in this self imposed limbo land, but really there are no better options. once you have removed yourself from a bit of the drama, you are able to see things a bit clearer.

what plan B means to me is that you redirect focus onto that which lies in your control. YOU! this will be a huge task for you. I agree that you need to formulate a plan B letter. but don't try to rush it, it needs to be free from DJ's so keep posting for more advice.




this statement is scary to me...want to know why?....because it is word for word my WS. my guess is that your wife has boundary issues too. see, I am a codependent. my WS and I fit like a glove. we each own responsibility for 50% of the problems in our M. WS was controling and manipulative, but I was unable to set any boundaries and never stood up for myself, therefore I own 50%.

IMHO, you and your W own your M problems equally, and on top of that she owns the A, so.....in your mind.....you are more right, and she is more wrong. you use this view point to entitle yourself and remove yourself from having to work at anything on your own....UNLESS, she ends her A. right? thats what you are WAITING for, right? then you will get on to working on your 'control' issues? AFTER she choses to work on M. that is a reaction. plan B is about acting...bettering yourself...fixing your issues and leaving her to fix her own....then WHEN the A ends, and it will end, YOU are in a better place and are a better person to recover.

IMHO, your life is careening out of control and you are not handling it well, every thought and motivation is about what WW will chose at the end of the month. you are waiting for something magical to happen on that date, and you are not doing anything but waiting. focused on trying to control HER decision, becuase it affects your life and you have NO control over what will happen. this would be scary for anyone, but for a controlling person, it puts you into panic.

point! YOU cannot force, cajole, or influence her to START to work on HER problems. she is not focused on that right now. you CAN focus on your side and make actions to better yourself, so that when she IS ready to work on her stuff, you are calm and better tempered to begin recovery as a healthy partner.

don't forget the first step is identification of the problem, keep posting, formulate a plan, that might give you a bit more peace!

I am going to think of some ideas for your plan b letter, but I have to chew on it a bit.

Hi all,

Had a rough day, spent the day missing her, though I tried to do other stuff to take my mind of her. I think the weekends are the worse, especially long weekends like these. No family around, few friends and the closer ones have gone on short holidays and I didn't want to bother the others.

Thought of her upcoming trip to the US, and how she'll be alone and I still worry for her. All alone in a foreign country by herself, she'll be spending 2 days in LA by herself. Why do I still worry and care and miss someone who doesn't love me anymore? Why does someone you love so much suddenly does a 180 overnight? Its just like an accident has taken away someone you love suddenly.

Never thought I'd say this, but lately I actually look forward to going back to work.. sheesh, now what could be more messed up than that?

dev, don't want to beat you up, but what exactly would you do for her? judge everything she ever did or say? you may have loved her with all your capacity, but that may not have been enough for her to FEEL loved. by giving love free from judgement and conditions. that is what I stayed in my emotionally abusive R so long for, I kept thinking that if I did more, was more, did everything WS said, that I would eventually get loved the way I wanted.( I never spoke this outloud, which was unfair to WS) but the truth is, WS wanted things done HER way...and truthfully there is nothing that I ever could do that was good enough...because certainly I was NOT her, I was ME. you know the old saying, if you want something done right, then do it yourself. well, my WS wanted me to do everything, but her way...thats an impossible task. I was made to feel that MY way was WRONG 100% of the time. now I know that MY way is just different and people can do things different and it can still be right.

emotional abuse can damage your soul, I had zero self esteem, zero self respect, zero self worth. I was afraid that if I stood up to her, she would leave me for someone who would do things "better" or " the right way" and I lived in anxiety and fear for 15 years.

and I am in no way, shape or form blaming YOU for her A either. just like mys said. that was HER bad choice, and it was wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!!!!!! she is responsible for letting herself remain at the hands of your control as well. don't forget it takes 2 to tango. and from what Cloud and Townsend refer to in the book....Many, many couples have the unhealthy boundary problems that you and I have had in our M's. its part of WHY we married the people we did....'cauz we filled each other up, in an unhealthy way.

but dev, now is the time to help yourself....forget about what WW is doing....thats NOT love, its a distraction from her life. I know it hurts like the devil. believe me, we hear you! but realize that YOU have the power to set the stage for a better M. you may have to let go a bit, and thats a hard concept to grasp. it may be the hardest thing you have to do, but it will make you a better person....and in the end you can still chose to kick WW to the curb....or you can chose to make a better M.....even if her A doesn't end tomorrow. and even if you don't end up with WW in the end, YOU will be a wonderful and equal partner to a woman who deserves you!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi mys,


LOL, no I don't mean that at all.


Fully agree with you here


I sometimes think I'm totally over her A, but in reality I think because the matter of me losing her is probably overshadowing that now.


I never excused myself from blame. I recognize that I did contribute to our marital problems. But I guess I continued doing it (being manipulative & controlling) because for a long time, that was the only way I knew how. And so, I know that I need to change.

While I totally understand where you're going with this, wouldn't the classic plan B letter with action plans etc be the opposite of me telling her I'm ready to move on, with our without her? Wouldn't it seem that I'm still trying to hold on and am trying to be manipulative to try and make her stay?


Yes, my plan A suck monkey butt, as mentioned earlier <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I would try to change, to curb my temper and for a while it worked. I never saw it as something which I needed to get help for, but I realize now that I do.


Yes, it IS a serious problem. One that I shall speak to IC about, thank you.


I'll have to read and re-read that a few more times to let it sink in. Any good books to recommend to help me with this?


Definitely this is the closer one:

Yes, that more or less describes me, though I didn't do it ALL the time, but often enough. And no, I&#8217;m not trying to minimize what I did, just clarifying, I know it was bad, and I know doing that hurt my WS deeply, and everytime I did that, the disrespectful judgements, the control freak "no you can't buy this, but I can buy that because its for the both of us (though I would use it most)" etc. I know I killed a bit of her spirit and her love for me and I am truly ashamed of that. You never see what you do the people you love, how horrible, how abusive, until someone else points it out to you. I would call her up right now, get on my knees and tell her I'm sorry for all those times, if only knew she could hear me.


Thanks fightingback. I know I keep saying I'm letting go, but damnit- its so hard to do. Like you said it earlier, saying I'm moving on doesn't reduce the hurt or anything else, they're just words. How do you do something when you don't FEEL it?

Dev

Dev:


You missed the base of "My plan." What I did was say that enough is enough. I cannot and will not continue to live this way. You can take the kids or leave them here with me. You can go with the OM or just go. If you go with OM, then forget me because I will permanently and irrevocably deny any access by you to me. I hurts too much and I need to heal.

If you go just by yourself and cut the OM out of your life permanently, then I will maintain contact with you and do my best to have a civil relationship with you. The OM is bad news with a capital B and I cannot stand by and watch the train wreck for you and the kids. Watching that while knowing that I cannot help is more than I can emotionally deal with.

Or, you can stay with me. If you elect to stay with me, we have to build a new relationship, the old one is dead, you shot it in the head with what I believe to be a bad choice. Secondly, you must have no contact with the OM for life. And finally, you must go for counseling so you can get your head on straight. It obviously isn't now and you know it.

For the last month I have been a basket case. I tried to give up my manhood to you because I love you, our kids and our family that much. But I can't. I cannot stand by and watch you commit emotional suicide and inflict the pain on the kids, yourself, me and probably the OM as well. It is over and now you have a choice to make. Take all the time you need to make that choice, but during that time, you can have no contact with the OM or I will do what I said I will do.

That is almost verbatum as best I can reconstruct it as to my actual words. I watched her eat cake for a month and it almost killed me.

Larry

Dev:


By using your mind instead of your emotions. Humans have the power to reason and predict consequences. You are following your emotions around like a puppy dog just like your wife is likely doing.

Hey, I am no paragon. It took me 30 days to get my head on straight and a couple of 2X4s before I did. But I did and it happened quitely, in the dead of night on a kid's trampoline with me thinking though likely consequences and what it would take for me to either 1) find a new relationship with my wife if that was even possible or 2) stop the pain by cutting of the source of the pain, which was my wife's affair.

In other words, I took control of me. Then I started working on her. I am a man. It is up to me to lead us out of this jungle she got us into one way or the other. That is what I told myself based on what I was told by the suicide hotline counselor.

Larry

Thanks for clarifying that Larry.

I was about to reply that my WS insists that they are "just friends", but I've just come across something that shows they are not.

I logged into her email as usual and she was logged on at the same time because I could see there was a draft email being typed out. It was to OW and my WS started it with "hi dear" and went on about her trip to the US etc. She never calls anyone 'dear' except me... sheesh...

After it was done, she dutifully deleted THAT email and cleared her trash as well! (but I got a screenshot of it!) Wow, talk about being careful!

But I managed to see that email as it was being sent out, which finally CONFIRMS my suspicious about the ongoing A and will give me more 'motivation' and reason to do what I have to do, after I decide what to do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Just thinking aloud, and I know it may seem like an act of revenge, but would a second round of exposure be useful at this point? Like emailing people on her contact lists and telling them all what happened and what is continuing to happen?

why not put some of this in your PBL....I know I have been waiting and dying for WS to say anything like that to me....trouble is, she is identifying she has this same problem, but is no where near doing anything about it. no IC...just lost in the fogland of someone else filling her up so she can avoid her problems.

anyhow, If I were your wife, I might just need to know that you are willing to give everything you have to get past the offense of the A and to make a better M, but in the interrum you will not stand by and be a party to her A. this is about simply stating what you can and cannot live with. clear boundaries....yes to working on M. no to love triangle....period. and yes it is that simple.

you want to leave her with some uncertainty......you don't want to say "I am moving on without you"(threat) nor do you want to say "do anything i will still be here"(doormat). you want to leave her with a queston in her mind and that question is "I am going to be losing something special?"

you need to be subtle in your plan B....kind of like "I will do anything to save our M, when you are willing to commit to my conditions, if not then I understand that is your decision to make. I want to be happy with you, but I respect you have to do what you feel you need to do. I have needs as well, and I am going to focus on making my life the best it can be, I would love to walk that road with you and only you, but I realize you may not chose to walk the same path as me. I wish you all the happiness in the world. I will miss you terribly.

see, this says...I MAY wait for you to get your head out of your [censored] and do what you need to do, OR I may just go off and be happy without you because ! am a good person and I will be working on a better life for me, with or without you! no pressure....no demands....plain and simple her choice. you let her wonder....will he forgive me....will he find someone else..what will I have to do to make ammends...focus moves from OW to Husband!!!! if she's thinking about you...life in turdland is that much turdier(new word)!!!! then in dark plan b...she has no info on you...her security blanket is gone!!! she will start to freak out.

for PBL I would throw a lot of stuff in about believing in her...
"I know you are a strong person, I never gave you the credit for doing A, B, C..." because if she was as codependent as I was, she is looking for someone to guide her....probably can't make decisions solely without other people giving their approval. this was me, when WS left I was immobile...but now I make all kinds of decisions on my own. you want to instill your belief in her to be able to overcome what she has done.




larry...you crack me up!!!! I agree...it took a long time to stop reacting from my emotions...now that I am better controlled of my actions I feel more peace and I am better able to cope with the crappy sitch I am in.
dev, a technique i use is to NOT ACT until the feelings of anxiety and panic have passed. no email, telephone conv, or speaking until you can get away and get calm. then you can decide in your head how too handle things before acting irrationally.

dev...this is a start at not reacting to crap!!!:).... take a deep breath....'no sudden movements....it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.....this is a marathon...hunker down and fight!!!!!!!

rule #1.....anything said by a wayward should be taken as a flat out lie....don't believe ONE WORD....watch and be silent...their actions will tell the truth....dev...if you keep reading her email...you are bound to keep triggering yourself. I would advise you to chose to believe that until she commits to NC, that the R is "on" in some capacity. even "just friends" is more than you will accept so it doesn't really matter if they are having SF(I know it does, but tell yourself it doesn't) because just friends is still too much contact.

essentially expect the worst, and you wont be dissapointed. expect the A to continue....and get on to plan B...get busy getting yourself ready for recovery while you are waiting for the A to impode. and get out of the firing line:)

Hi fb,

WS's mother was a BS, and she endured 20 YEARS, suffering in silence because she did not have a Plan, or was she strong enough to set boundaries for herself and her children. She also was totally financially dependant on her husband, and with 2 young children, endured it for their sake.

I will not wait 2 YEARS for my WS to get her head out of her [censored] and end this A, much less 20. I will need to really think carefully if I want to spend my life with someone who has cheated on me, stopped briefly after exposure, then did it again, all the while lying to me.

My boundary is that I will NOT be part of a 3-way marriage, and its been made clear to her from D-day that while I could forgive her for the initial A, I don't think I could ever forgive her for going back.

If I do not enforce these boundaries, am I not just allowing her to eat cake? She pursues her fantasy A with the butch, all the while knowing that her weak, crying husband will be the parachute should things not go well and she decided to take up my 3 conditions again.

I'm angry, and my head's messed up from flu meds and its 1am here, but right now, I'm inclined to throw down the gauntlet like what Larry did. I'll post more tomorrow at the office after I've had a night's sleep. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />