OK, my 'latest' plan B letter for your opinion, guys: (thanks!)


Dear WS,

It saddens me that we have come to this point in our relationship.

Firstly, let me just say that I *know* about your ongoing affair with the lesbian, have known for a while now but have chosen not to say anything. This is not an assumption nor speculation on my part, as I have no reason to lie about this at this point. I will not tell you from whom or how I've learned of it, but suffice to say I am aware that it is actively going on, and though it saddens me that you have chosen this path, it is your decision to make.

When I married you, I expected to be married for life "to have and to hold, in good times and in bad...etc" BUT I have always made it clear to you that I will not be part of a 3-way marriage. At this stage, I will need to move on with my own life, hence, I want you to remove all of your remaining belongings from my flat by the end of April; anything left behind will be left in the corridor after that time. I do this not to get any form of revenge, but to distance myself from you so that I can begin to take charge of my life again and to begin the healing process for ME.

After you have removed your belongings, I will then have no contact with you. I will not call, text message or speak with you, as at this point, any further contact with you only causes me more frustration and hurt. I have many good and wonderful memories and feelings of love for the person you once were, and I don't want to lose more of that from more senseless arguments.

I shall only consider reestablishing contact again should you agree to meet the 3 conditions I put forth, that you be completely transparent and honest, commit back to the marriage and have made plans and actions to achieve complete no contact with the butch. Again, this is entirely your decision to make, no pressure or manipulation on my part. I need to put these boundaries to protect myself and to regain a measure of self-respect so that I can move on with my life, with or without you.

Though it may already be too late for our marriage, I sincerely hope you may wake up someday and realize just exactly what you've gotten yourself into before you end up losing everything and everyone that has cared about you. Else I hope you will be happy with the kind of life you have chosen to live.


BS

One other thing: are there any 'rules' for when she comes to take stuff to move out? We don't have much stuff and all, mostly household appliances and while I don't wanna be a jerk by letting her have stuff which she paid for and things I bought for her like a Hi-fi system, we also have some stuff which we bought together like TVs, an expensive steam iron etc. Do we guesstimate and just allow each other to keep approximately 1/2 of the stuff each?

Ugh, accidently deleted a question I was posing to Fightingback.

I know a lot of butch women seduce straight women more as conquests or for the thrill of the chase. But in your case, you are looking for long term relationships. This lesbian is 29 this year, young, so another friend of mine says she's probably just doing it for the conquest and now that she's got what she wants, its unlikely to last for long. What are your opinions on this? Don't get me wrong, I think I'll have trouble taking my WS back if she were to come back NOW, I'm not trying to cultivate false hope or anything, but I thought it would be interesting to hear it from the POV of a lesbian so I know what to look out for in my future relationships (if any :P)

Also, how is it that my WS, who was arrow straight, could be 'turned' by a lesbian to that kind of lifestyle? I am very sure they have had SF already, and have my reasons for suspecting this, but I just can't 'see' how that was possible. What are your thoughts on this also? Thanks

One other thing I don't understand about this situation.

She has clearly already made her choice, even before this "one month to reconsider separation" farce. Yet, she still led me to believe that she was still considering, telling me to wait out the full one month as agreed upon earlier.

If she already decided to go with the lesbian, why continue to lead me on by telling me she still wants to think about it? Why tell me not to rush it, she has an 18 hour long flight to think about it still? Is she too much of a coward to admit that its over? Is she deliberatly trying to hurt me by giving me false hope? Is temporary storage of her stuff SOOO important to her? Was she waiting to secure alternative accommodations so she can pursue the A while hidden from her friends even?

I was just mulling it over and I'm still puzzled as to her motivations for doing certain things.

Hey Dev,

Just catching up on your thread before I leave for Disney tomorrow.

I think you are getting great advice from everyone, don't follow the way I went into plan B. I think I'm a plan a and B failure. So I don't want to give any advice.

Just wanting to give you support in whatever you decide to do.

Still

Who in the world told you anger is bad and wrong?

Good grief.

Dev - consider quiet action better than announced action.

Quietly, NOW - box up her stuff. Then, NOW - have the boxes delivered to her job. Why wait until HER timetable for you to go to self-protection mode.


There's no sense in her EVER having access to your home. Include in your Plan B letter that you don't need to be "let down easy" by having her wait until the end of the month to tell you "her decision". You've made yours. You want no contact with her while she is actively seeking to destroy all your love for her.

Have your Plan B letter attached to the top of one of those boxes. Stay dark. Quiet. Powerful.

stillhurting:

Thanks and have a good trip! Catch up again when you're back!

noodle: Err, my Sunday school teacher? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Seriously though, I know I will need to learn to focus that anger and to direct it to more useful purpose, like what I'm doing right now. My anger is allowing me to detach myself from the WS, almost like physically severing the last ties between us. And you know what? She can do whatever she wants for all I care, just as long as it doesn't involve me.


KaylaAndy: Thanks, a very interesting idea. However, there is A LOT of stuff here and while I will certainly box it up and all, I will tell her to come on a SPECIFIC date, 29th April (Sunday) to get her stuff. Let me spoil whatever plans she has for the day with OW! We have lots of stuff which we haven't decided who will take yet, so the last thing I want is for her to say I still have her stuff and for me to still need to meet up with her to pass it back.



I will send the plan B email to her this Saturday, so she will see it when she's in the US. Give her more food for thought without the lesbian being there physically. See if she emails the lesbian telling her about it then I can also gauge what's being said.

Any opinions on the letter?

dev...imho...this paragraph could be shortened a bit....I don't think it is neccessary to explain the why's hows and ifs about you "knowing of the A" ....also I am unsure of calling her OW a butch or lesbian, because in the tone of the letter it sounds derogatory...maybe just call her OW. I just mean that the PBL is supposed to be free from DJ's. just food for thought.

"WW, I am aware that you continue to have contact with OW. I realize that this is your choice to make, but I have made a decision not to be a part of a M while there are three parties involved." straight to the point!! waywards have an extremely short attention span.



this might be a bit of a DJ dev...a bit of a threat...lecture......try to start your statements with I..., not YOU. IMHO, even though you may feel like it is too late for your M, don't say that to her. why would she even give it a try if she new you didn't think it would work?

also, I think you should add a statement about how you both had responsibility for the state of your M before th A. and that you are working on being a better partner yourself. and should she be willing to conceed to your conditions you will give everything you have to giving it a try.

I will respond to your other ???'s too, but I've got to take my DS8 to the doctors...I'll be back

The letter is too threatening. And, there's way too much justification (explaination) of your actions that just makes you looks suspicious. For example, when someone tells me that "I'm not doing this out of revenge.." the first thing I think is "uh huh. right... this is revenge" I dunno why but it's just a natural thing.

I'm not even going to bother going through it line by line and saying what's wrong with it because I am all ready multi-tasking too much.

Here's a thought:


Dear WS,

I love you and when we were married, I expected to spend the rest of my life with you. It saddens me that we have come to this point in our relationship.

Your ongoing affair with OW is killing my love for you. I am no longer willing to be involved in this 3 way relationship. Therefore, I do not wish to have any contact with you unless and until you are willing to agree to the following conditions. If you have an emergency and need to contact me, please call <intermediary's name> and they will pass the message on to me.

First, I need you to commit to rebuilding a marraige with me in which we both get to be happy. I realize that we both have some work to do towards making that hapen and so part of that condition will be intensive marital counseling. This committment will require your full participation in any and all exercises and assignments given by the marriage counselor and full disclosure of all your affair activities while in counseling sessions so that we can work through them.

Second, the lies and hiding behavior you have displayed over the past months while you hid your secret life from me have caused me severe emotional damage. I will require that you open up your life to me in such a way that it is obvious to me that you are no longer leading a secret life. I am willing to do the same for you. This requirement includes that we exchange all passwords for any online service (myspace, email, cell phones, etc.) I also require that all home computers have keyloggers installed on them and that those records be available for inspection by either party.

Third, I need you to be honest with me - both about the events of the affair and your secret life and ALSO about ways in which we can make this a marriage that we both can be happy with. I am asking for Radical Honesty -- where anything which is relevant to our marriage is discussed openly. At first, I expect this honesty to be limited to the safe environment of the marriage counselor's office as I am well aware that we have some very difficult topics to discuss and we may need a third party to assist us in working through the topics.

Finally, WS, let me reiterate that I love you very much and I deeply regret that our marriage has gotten to this point. I apologize sincerely for my part in causing you pain. You have my sincere promise that if our marriage recovers it will no longer resemble in any way our former relationship. I am willing to commit 100% to making this a relationship in which we both are able to be happy, satisfied and feel loved. I firmly believe that we can make a wonderful life together and that is my intention towards our relationship at this time.

With all my love,

<your name>



The Plan B letter is supposed to be a love letter, Dev. Re-read what you wrote -- it sounds like an angry letter not a love letter.

What I wrote above is just a sample of what I mean BY love letter -- take it and work it around (other people too) and see if maybe that gets closer to the "love letter" tone.

Oh, and one more thing, don't include the property arrangements in the letter. Take care of that outside of the Plan B letter -- give this to her after.

Mys

Hi mys,

Thanks for taking the time to post that amidst your studying. It is a good love letter, only, I DON'T feel any love for my WS at this point!

I know the tone of my earlier letter can be less lecturing and angry, but a love letter in the manner which you wrote above does not truly express what I really feel at this point, and that is:

1. Knowing about her continuing affair, which is IMHO stronger and more active than before we went for the break, has just about killed off whatever love I have left for her.

2. While I love my W, I despise the WS that she has become and for the moment, just want to distance myself from seeing her, talking to her etc. This is achieved by NC with her, and later on, possibly a D.

3. While it *may* still be possible to reconcile with her should she 'wake up' and want to come back, I will not wait forever, or very long, for that matter.

4. I'm inclined to think if she wants this fantasy relationship with the lesbian so much, then she's welcome to it, and I don't plan to be around to catch the pieces when reality comes knocking, and it will.

Maybe I need to cool off more before I can write anything close to that kind of love letter. Maybe I'm at the end of the road, and I don't wanna take another step towards reconcilliation because its like she takes 2 steps backwards for every step I take forwards. Maybe in my mind and heart she has crossed that boundary, the point of no return. I don't know. All I can feel now are 1-4, and its liberating, in a way.

Dev,

Just expose her seedy little lesbian affair to those who she cares about keeping it from. She'll get pissed. So what? She going down the road of divorcing you anyway. This will at least kill the affair. She's probably been telling all those people lies about how horrible of a husband you are. Set the record straight. Grow a pair and expose her to the consequences of her actions. Will she get pissed off? Who cares? That's not your problem. You need to detach from her.

Hi Jim,

Yes, the mass exposue is on the cards. I'm already drafting out the email to family, friends and colleagues.

In the meantime, I'm giving them more rope to hang themselves with. I want to make sure I'm at a place where I can end this for sure -right now I think I'm sure, but I wanna give myself more time to make really sure.

During this waiting period, I shall get her stuff out of the house, and have total NC with her. Monitor the emails for a while more, then send out the mass mails, because after that time, she will know I have access to her emails and have been reading their seedy love letters. Knowing this, her power to deny will not be there anymore.

Deep down I know its over, short of divine intervention. I'm not afraid of exposing them both to the world, when I have more concrete evidence and am SURE this is the course action I want to take.

Actually, I wonder if my WS has found this site and is reading it now.. lol... cause she knew about MB, and hated it. Well, if you are *wave* :P

Just a thought that came across my mind <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Then again, deep in la la land, it prob never occured to her to see what i was up to next

hmmmm....My guess based on the limited information that I know, is that OW will remain in the A while it feeds her needs....whatever those may be. I have said before that in lesbian R's one partner is usually involved with someone else before they end the current R. so my prediction is that OW will tire of your W eventually and move on to someone else...especially if your W is not really gay. how long will that take? no one knows...there could be many dymamics of the A that we don't know.


OK, this one is right up my alley. so, lets say a gay woman goes up to a straight woman at a bar, starts hitting on her and leans in a tries to kiss her. what do you think would happen? the straight woman would say "what the heck are you doing?" and the gay woman would get her [censored] kicked.

women fall in love differently than men. sex is an extension of a warm loving relationship, a show of inner feelings, inner love. so when a straight woman falls for a another woman for the first time it is unexpected and unplanned. the woman is totally unaware of the fact that she is falling in love. (this happened to me, so my opinion is just based on my own experiences.) If you had told me 6 months before my 1st sexual encounter that I would be sleeping with another woman, I would have told you you had a few screws loose. the concept of having sex with another woman was repulsive to me. but after falling in love, there was a huge difference. sex was a physical manifestation of the love I felt.

my best guess is that your W was "in love" with OW before anything turned the least bit sexual. after OW began filling her needs....admiration, conversation, recreational companionship, affection(in the way of a hand hold, touch of the shoulders) her LB was increasing for OW. I bet when things progressed your W was mildly resistant...as in "no, I shouldn't I am married" and "no, I 'm not really gay" but in the setting of all those LB deposits rational thought doesn't hold much weight.

and just like all of the waywards before her...she took the easy road and took a hit of that nearly leathal drug they call infidelity.

I don't know if this helps or not...I can see you trying to wrap your mind around the how and why of all this. I honestly don't see a serious difference in the fact that WW is with an OW. its still an extramarital affair...its still based on fantasy...it still has very little foundation for long term survival....same actions....same beast...just looks a bit different. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Thanks fightingback for sharing from your own experience,

I asked those questions because I was interested in finding out what made that kind of relationship tick and what you've said ties in with what WS has herself said, and is also typical of what Harley describes happens in an A. I agree that there is no difference whether or not its a hetero- or homosexual relationship: an affair is still an affair.


I text messaged WS this morning telling her I wanted to meet at the car park for 5 minutes this evening.

I will tell her:

1. I KNOW about the ongoing A
2. It hurts me to know she has made this decision, so I think there's no point in waiting till the end of the month to hear what I know is coming anyway
3. I reaffim my stand that while I will do everything I can to save our marriage, I will not be part of a 3-way relationship, hence,
4. I want her to move out her stuff from my apartment on 29th April 2007, after which all leftover items will be disposed of as I see fit.

Straight to the point?


P/S:
Anyway, WS just called as I was typing this.. asked me what it was about and I said I didn't want to talk over the phone and that I would speak to her in the evening. She said doing it this way would spoil her day as she'll be kept wondering what I have on my mind...heh... now she knows how I felt since OCTOBER! I said I wasn't free in the morning and that we would discuss it this afternoon.

Dev,

Be strong and I hope all goes well with your talk with WW.

I jsut wanted to stop by and say bye before I go to bed. Early flight tomorrow (you're already there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> )

Catch up with you next week,

Still

Hi still,

Prob too late, but Have a GREAT trip ok?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

OK, I've done it!

Met her just now, and kept it as short and as simple as possible.

I told her it would just take a minute and that she didn't need to say anything. I said:

"Firstly I just want to say that I know about the ongoing affair. There's no use denying it because I KNOW. I'm telling you so you know where I'm coming from.

[Could see her tense a bit when I said this]


Secondly, it hurts me that you have decided on this course of action. As such, I really think there's no point in pretending to "think about it" till the end of the month when we both know what you're going to say.

Thirdly, you know that I would do ANYTHING to save this marriage, but I've always been clear that I won't be part of a 3-way relationship.

So, I want you to come by on 29th April, a Sunday, and remove the rest of your belongings from my apartment. I will be home between 9am and 2pm and you have a lot of stuff, so I suggest you be early. After that time I shall leave any unclaimed items in the common corridor.

Now is there anything else?"

She just stood there for a while then asked me "why 9 to 2pm only?"

I answered "because I'm going out. Is there anything else?"

She said no, then I said "ok, bye" turned away and walked off. No denials or anything.

I'm not sure how I feel. Maybe a little glad that it has been done, but also a bit anti-climatic...haha

Was rehersing that speech, because I wanted to deliver it just as it was without grandstanding or getting off tangent and raving about this and that again. Think I did fairly well.

So, this sounds to me like you're pretty much done?

Right?

Mys