Hi Mys,

Yes, pretty much so. Its like she has crossed an invisible barrier with me already. At this point, short of an act of God that brings her back on her knees begging for forgiveness, I am done. I cannot find it in myself to reach out to this deceitful creature. I need to live MY own life.

Okay,

Now all you need to do is give her a plan B letter and expose to EVERYONE. You don't have to take her back, but it is good to go out with a plan B letter to keep your options open.

Why would youtell her to get the rest of her stuff out BEFORE you've exposed to everyone?

Exposure should have been done as part of plan A...not in conjunction with plan B. It DOES give the message that you're done, and it will make everyone (her, AND the people that you're exposing to) think that you're just doing it to be vindictive...it doesn't give anyone the feeling that you're doing so to rebuild your marriage.

If you ARE done...why bother exposing? Just kick her to the curb and drive on.

If you're NOT done...why are you going to plan B before exposing as part of a normal plan A?

Hi Owl,

Not sure if you're familiar with my sitch, but I have already done the exposure back in January, a month or so after D-Day. I exposed to her parents, one or two closer friends, my family and her management, as well as OW's parents.

It halted the A in its tracks for a while, but as you can see, it has picked up where it left off again. She is back together with OW, stronger than ever it seems. She moved out 3 weeks ago, on the pretense of "wanting to do some thinking about the M" and as we all know, it was just an excuse to pursue the A unhindered.

She's been holding me over hot water like a teabag and dunking me in every now and at the same time feeding me with the faint hope that she may decide to return to the M at the end of her one month period to "think" but I found out and confirmed a few days ago that she is in fact strongly entrenched in the A.

That has, for me, just about killed off any hope of reconcilliation or for ever trusting her again. As far as I'm concerned, the woman I married is dead and gone, replaced by this monstrosity I don't recognize.

I knew I was at the end of my patience and at the end of my rope when I spoke to her in the carpark last week. As I looked into her smug, smiling face, all I wanted to do was to smash her smirking face into the windscreen. I really did. But I mustered up my resolve and forced myself to walk away -and I thank God that I didn't give in to my emotions and do something as stupid as that.

I understand now that a lot of my pent up anger and frustration was because I didn't know whether or not she was back with the lesbian. I wanted to believe that she was telling the truth about re-considering the marriage and all, and yet, her behavior and my own gut told me she wasn't, that it was more lies. This inner conflict only increased my frustration day by day.

That is why, after seeing the emails that showed conclusively they were together again, it was more of a release for me. I didn't feel anger. I didn't feel frustration. I just felt sad but relieved, because that meant I could now take steps towards my own healing and recovery without any doubt that I could be making a mistake and spoiling any chance at a recovery.

Dev,

I think you are in a little bit of your own fog. You may very well want to move on. But don't doubt that you may want to reconcile if you WW comes up to you asking forgiveness and wanting to work things out. That hasn't happened as of yet because you have never killed the affair. There are several reasons including your LBing and reluctance to use nuclear exposure. I would recommend nuclear exposure and then removing yourself from the situation to preserve any love your have left for your WW (and I know that you still have some). Plan B her. You need some time to yourself to figure out what you want to do anyway. If the A ends and she wants to make it work before you move on, you still have that option. Either way, I don't see how exposure will hurt anything other than the affair. I know that you are angry and upset, but you need to learn how to deal with those emotions in a positive way. My philosophy is to give 100% up until the point that you are 100% sure that you are completely done. Good luck. I'll keep you in my prayers.

Well Dev...

All in all it sounds like you did a good job.

Probably one of the best cleanup job scenarios I could have come up with. You were respectfull..controlled...and decisive.

See...I have had the strong impression that she was absolutely still in the A and wanting out [and knew it] but was just not willing to take responsibility and was OK with letting you dangle meanwhile.

So she procrastinated giving you an answer and went about her merry affairing way.

I think what you did commanded respect and acknowledgement that while you do realise you can't make her decisions for her..neither do you make YOURS at her pleasure.

You count too. [Isn't it nice to hear that after so many months as a BS?]

Going about it as you did is a great lead in to the actual plan B love letter than mys offered [and she will reject for the present].

It established that line of SELF RESPECT that is just a critical element to the possibility of her feeling in love with you after her affair dies.

I would execute as planned...deliver the plan B with her stuff [I would use myschaes as cannon...yours was very lecturing and dj filled..I'm not attacking you just pointing out that this constant abuse and disrespect has embittered you..rightly so...to a degree and I wouldn't expect you..most especially not if you couldn't actually go through the plan A plan B PROCESS which is VERY MUCH about self conditioning...I wouldn't expect you to be able to write a love letter that was respectfull to you both.

I wouldn't bother with second round of exposure...I'd go dark.

I would expose. She is VERY AFRAID of a second exposure to her work colleagues, and IMO, that would lead to a quick end of the affair. The fact that she doesn't want you to expose so bad is a clear indication of what it would do to the affair. Not exposing is just an admission of her ability to successfully manipulate you.

Agreed with Jim.

My only other concern is this...what 'message' does everyone get by doing exposure combined with plan B?

In plan A, it's clear that you're making changes, working hard to save your marriage. So it's easy to get the message across that you're exposing to ASK FOR HELP IN SAVING YOUR MARRIAGE.

But exposing and then moving to plan B would send a mixed message, IMHO. Because most people aren't going to understand that plan B is still about saving your marriage. Your WS won't, for sure. So it makes your exposure look like it was done to be petty and vindictive...even though WE here know that it's not. It's going to seriously detract from the value of your exposure...it undermines what you're hoping to accomplish with it.

I think that if you expose, you should continue plan A for a short time afterwards...and THEN go to plan B once everyone understands why you're doing what you're doing.

Thoughts?

It sends the message that I am your husband, and I am not to be jerked around, but rather respected. You don't control me. That's the message that it sends. She will interpret it as vindictive, but that is what the plan B letter is supposed to explain. As far as her coworkers, I don't think they need to be fully briefed as to where he and his WW are at. They wouldn't know if he is in plan A, plan B, plan X. He doesn't have to tell them that. All he has to tell them is that he is fighting for his marriage, he is exposing to put pressure on the A, and he will not be part of a 3 way relationship (unless they are both hot and want to join him - just kidding, I thought I would lighten up the mood a little bit <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ). Possibly some of them have been through the same situation as well. SL exposed to OW's parents during plan B. Sure, you'd like to expose during plan A, but Dev has plan A'ed for far too long now, and exposure is better late than never.

Actually I'd say that Dev hasn't plan A'd at all and as a result his further exposure would probably not have the same impact it would otherwise.

A failed plan A makes plan B very hard to navigate.

He could expose..exposure is exposure is exposure and I'm not firmly opposed to the idea..but from a purely strategic position I don't see the real benefit at this point from more exposure other than what has already been touched on.

If that's the case, then just plan A a little longer while separated to leave things on a more positive note. Dev, you need to be stronger if you want to save your M.

I'll just weigh in to say that I don't think that the exposure is going to do much to make things worse or make things much better for this relationship.

Even if the affair ends, Dev, I just don't see her crawling back to you if that's what you're waiting for because she's going to be angry with you and even after she gets over that anger, because of the control issues in your relationship. If she DOES do that it will only be because she's so monumentally unhealthy that you probably shouldn't consider her as a life partner anyway. As gratifying as I'm sure that ("crawling") fantasy is, I hope you see it for what it is: an unhealthy indulgence of the control issues that you need to work on in order to have any healthy relationship with anyone.

Otherwise, it will probably just annoy the heck out of her (big deal) and possibly polarize some of her relationships and have a very slight chance of ending the affair.

Meanwhile, I don't mean to be mean to you, Dev, but I don't think you're going to be able to keep yourself out of it -- if for no other reason than to satisfy your curiousity about what happens and to watch the drama unfold.

And, I really think that's unhealthy for you.

Right now, you have a good set up to just walk away, put all this aside, stop obsessing and trying to manipulate the situation (which you haven't been successful at so far) and move on.

Stirring up this whirlwind is only going to serve as a way to keep yourself sucked into this unhealthy situation and keep you focusing where you shouldn't be focusing anyway.

My advice to you is to put this relationship aside and to go dark. Do plan B or do plan D -- which ever you feel comfortable with. Stop participating in this pathetic little circus because you're wasting your time and your life with this drama.

You have GOT to have better things to do.

Mys

P.S. I'm not minimizing your marriage, but you were the one who said you were done. So, be done.

I just typed out a reply, and lost it all in a page error…ARRRGH!

Anyway, thank you everyone for your support, constructive suggestions and comments and 2x4s. You guys have been a great source of encouragement and direction, when at times I’m been too emotionally involved in this to see where I was going.


Mys, don’t worry. At this stage I’m not even hoping for that to happen, and definitely not “waiting” for it, and even if it does happen NOW, I’m not even sure if I want her back after all the crap she’s put me through. I’ve seen threads where the WS has second thoughts and ask the BS just before the divorce papers are about to be signed “Are we really going to be doing this… maybe we should give this a second chance?” and the BS said “Yes, we’re doing it” and changed the subject while thinking “Second chance? And have to go through all THAT again? Are you crazy??”

While I’m not at that stage yet, maybe still far from it, I’m working my way there.

On the question of exposure, plan A and plan B. Now that’s a bit more complicated. I know I did a sucky plan A, so my plan B is going to be sucky too. My initial exposure was insufficient, and while it did stop the A for a while and forced the WS to change jobs, the A has picked up where it left off.

I do not know her current colleagues, because she moved out during her first week with the company. She and OW and no longer working at the same company, so what they do with their personal time after hours doesn’t concern the company anyway. So exposing would only be, to them, the ravings of a husband gone mad and would only put me in a poor light (we are in the same industry, and while exposure would pressure her and hurt her career in the right circumstances, it would hurt mine if done wrongly). And would I want to jeopardize MY career in this manner, especially when I’ve more or less decided to move on?

Despite losing a job and a husband, and everything we've worked towards (we came here with almost nothing but each other, and now, just as we're earning enough to be comfortable without having to struggle so hard, she throws it all away), she remains glued to this lesbian, so I think the only way its going to end is when the lesbian gets tired of her and moves on to someone else. And I’m not sticking around to clean up her leftovers.

Now, I wouldn’t mind writing exposure emails to close friends she’s currently hanging out with. It would, as you say, polarize the relationships with some of them, and it would certainly set the record straight by at least giving my side of the story to the crap she’s probably feeding them about why we’re separated. I’m willing to bet that none of the reasons she’s given had the words ‘affair’, ‘lesbian’ or OW’s name in it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But let me think about this a bit more.

One thing I want to be honest with. Right now, the only reason I would do a nuclear exposure is:

1. Revenge
2. Set the record straight
3. Revenge

Not the most noble of motivations eh? Am I an MB’er gone bad? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

hey dev......first I wanted to say what a great job you did with that conversation with WW. straight to the point calm and controlled. I bet it felt good to maintain yourself and walk away with your dignity intact!!!!


you're an MB'er all right.....you're speaking the truth. we have all had less that noble thoughts. thats the great part of posting here. you can say it like it is. no need to sugar coat or add any fluff. we can take the straight hard truth, face on!!!!

my concern for futher exposure is more in regards to what it will do to YOU, and your mental health. lets be real, it probably is not going to stop the A, and it may do nothing to bring her back to a place of working things out. what it will do for certain is draw you back into all that drama again.

you are finally detatching a bit, and I would hate to see you lose the measure of control you have gained for a bit of revenge. revenge that would most certainly feel good for a few moments, but in the end might drag you back down. remember to take care of you.

Hi fb,

Thanks for your encouragement and support. I agree, and as I've stated above, a few more friends knowing about the A is unlikely to stop the A when losing a job and the dismay of her parents couldn't do anything. She promised her mother she would stop, and is lying to her now, probably giving her 1001 other reasons why we're separated I'll bet.

MIL is another strange duck, in a fog of her own. She endured 20 years of FIL's A until he finally had a stroke which left him 1/2 paralyzed, at which point his OW left him. How's that for 'true love'?? Now MIL expects her precious daughter to end the A just because she had "promised" mommy that she would? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, i will tell MIL and FIL about the ongoing A when I return home next month to drop off the remainder of WS's things still at my mum's place (where we stay when we go back to visit). Whether they believe me or not is THEIR problem.

I am contemplating exposure to her group of friends here in the city, some family members (her sister who doesn't know) and some of the friends she emails more regularly. There's also a group of her church friends back home whom she's tight with -that should polarize some friendships there. However, I should be upfront to say that it will not be a plan A/B-kind of exposure (to save marriage etc), but rather to set the record straight because these people will all find out if/when a D does happen, and I don't want them to just hear WS's side of the story. IF I decide to do it.

Just got some large cardboard boxes from the office and will bring them home on Sunday after family goes home. Then I'll start packing all her stuff into them to await collection.

Hi all, pls help twomany?help, just bumped his thread. His sitch is similar to mine. Thx

Well, ~I~ don't think you're doomed to a sucky Plan B. All you have to do is make up your mind to go dark.


Hey, look man, give yourself a little bit of credit here. Your bold move in taking your wife in with you while you told her boss was pretty up there in the "effective exposure" annals. Personally, of all the things there are to complain about your "plan following abilities" your ability to expose is not one of them.

Your exposure yielded more results than most. Most people can't manage to get their WS out of their jobs, for instance.

Just because it didn't give you 100% of what you wanted doesn't mean you didn't do it right.


Nah, you're a pretty normal person who's been hurt tremendously by the person you trusted most in the world.

The problem with indulging in revenge is that it keeps you stuck in some of the same dysfunctional behavior patterns that you recognize you want to change. So, making that decision to stay there just a little longer or just one more time really does nothing to move you forward in your life. It's understandable. It's just not productive or healthy.

From the time we're very little, an instinctive reaction to someone causing us pain is to want to inflict pain right back. When we're two year's old, we hit, bite, and kick to get back the toy that was stolen from us. Most of the time, there's an adult in our lives that intervenes at that point to keep things from turning into a brawl. As we get older, we realize that there are other, more subtle ways to hurt people who have hurt us.

The whole problem becomes that learning to hurt someone back as a method of processing through your anger leads to some pretty dysfunctional ways of interacting with people. The more often and better you get at "justifying" revenge the more entitled you seem to feel about causing injury (emotional or otherwise) to people you feel have wronged you as a method of soothing your hurt feelings. Left unchecked, it leads to seriously abusive tendencies like the stereotypical abuser that puts his wife in the hospital because the soup wasn't hot enough.

Now, I'm not suggesting that if you go through with this little revenge fantasy of yours that by next week you're going to turn into a raging physical abuser who's not safe to be around women.

I'm simply saying that each time you give yourself permission to act in this way (which is different from having a little fantasy about it), it steals a little bit of your ability to be compassionate, empathetic, and simply stay behind your boundary of what you consider to be an ethical and good man. I'm an athiest so I don't believe in God(s) or higher powers but if you do, I'd say that the concept of taking a step towards sinning or away from God is a perfect description of what I'm talking about. (As I know that many religious people use religious ideals or God(s) commandments as their moral compass. Where does "revenge" fit into whatever ethos you believe?)

So, thinking about it is perfectly normal, natural, and just shows that you're a human being with normal human feelings and instincts. Giving yourself permission to do things for the purpose of revenge is your choice and I think that just about everyone here would "understand" if that means anything to you -- but I think it's a bad idea and I hope, for your sake only, that you decline.

And, please note, that my reasons have absolutely nothing to do with her. Personally, I don't think it's going to matter much if you expose. Sooner or later, I really think this spiral of dysfunctional choices she's made are going to bring her down without your intervention. I really do.

Mys

Hi mys,

Ah, the voice of quiet reason once again. A lawyer friend I asked told me that legally I couldn't be sued as long as I told the truth and it was not derogatory or defamatory. On the other hand, as a friend, he also counseled me against the mass email, saying that it may not be the best course of action, saying that "The bridge may be burnt, but there's no point in razing the foundations as well" or something like that.

Haha, and thank you for praising my exposure at her office.. it was still a surreal moment for me. The person I pity the most is her (former) sales manager. Out of 3 sales persons, she lost one to another company (my WS), and is left with one she doesn't like (OW) who is planning to leave the company, leaving her with only one sales staff. I understand higher management is not happy with her performance as manager because of staff issues, and while I know she's paid to take and make tough calls, I feel like giving her a heads up that OW is leaving sooner than she thinks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just before she moved out, WS kept telling me "I should have walked out after you told my manager about the A" and kept repeating that like a mantra. She was VERY resentful about the exposure and maybe OW played on this resentment to get her back. I dunno...

On the topic of revenge, I've had friends who've told me they can arrange, for a not-so-high price, to have OW put into the hospital, permanantly, if I want to. Man, you'll never know how tempting that is, but don't worry, my moral compass is not THAT out of whack! Still, its a nice distraction from reality sometimes <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As for my WS regreting her decision in the future, of that I have no doubt! From reading threads on this forum and listening to stories of how affair partners self-destruct their fantasy world, I have little doubt in my mind that the fantasy will end for WS and the lesbian. The hard part is in restraining myself from accelerating that process - only because my reasons are no longer to preserve marriage, but as revenge, and that is whats keeping me from doing it at the moment. Oh decisions, decisions

Are your exams over yet Mys?

Just told mum that WS and OW are together again, and our talk at the carpark. She's upset, but I did not show much emotion in front of my mum, saying I was resigned to accepting the fact that she had made her (poor) decision and that it was time for me to move on.

She kept asking "WHY would she do such a thing? She was such a GOOD girl..??"

I couldn't say much but that the A was like temporary insanity and she's making these decisions while in some kind of fantasy-like fog. There was nothing more to do but let her go.

She then said she didn't know if she should speak with WS's mum and I said its no use and telling her there was no point in doing it at this moment. I said I would tell them next month when I dropped off her things at her parent's place anyway. She then said "How could she do this? We have always loved and treat her as one of our own...!!"

Marriages are not only about two people, but everyone around them as well. I've never realized it more than I did a moment ago.

Dev - I know it hurts, but be thankful you don't have kids. Ex and I raised 6 together, and there were also 2 step-sisters. All in all there were about 40 bodies laying in the wake of the affair. All so that two people could be "happy", and that ended too.