Wow, how did I miss that thread! Thanks Pep... going through it now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

U know, the probablily of success for plan B depends largely on how good a plan A that was performed. And my plan A was pretty bad, almost non-existant. Hence, do I still go with the regular plan B after exposing (the second time) and then going into a dark dark dark plan B?

no

you Plan A with gusto ... right up to the very day you shut out the lights and the wayward can no longer get ANY needs met by you

I'm not sure I understand your question ... so there is room for being completely off the mark!

LOL

Plan B is DARK Dev.

That is the whole point of plan B.

There aren't degrees of plan B or plan A for that matter.

Hi Pep,

I am no longer in a position to plan A or meet ANY needs, nor will she allow me to do so. She's moved out of the house over a month ago, and does not even call me (except when she's pissed off with me, LOL)..we have no kids, our finances and as of last week, our personal belongings have already been divided and collected. She is still firmly entrenched in the A.

The exposure is going to send her off the edge I think. I wouldn't be surprised if she served me with papers immediately after, but I would still do the exposure because D is where we're headed towards anyway at this rate. Both our LB's are completely withdrawn and in the red. I'm not even sure I love her anymore or if I'm just doing all this so I can say "well, I tried everything, didn't I??".

Dev - I would put through a call to Steve or Jen. I know you're not state-side but if you could get on with VOIP, the costs should be minimal.

Here's the thing. At this point, with the ineffective Plan A that you've done up to this point, more exposure would not help you. Plan B would just allow the current momentum to continue.

Steve is probably the best probability of helping you take correct action and saving your marriage.

If you don't intend to work to save your marriage, DO NOT EXPOSE ANY FURTHER. It's not needed; and could have some legal ramifications. You need to check anyway - because if exposure shuts her out of her job, you could very well end up owing spousal support. So all consequences need to be run by your attorney and your marriage coach - Steve or Jenn.

This is most of the reason I encourage you to Plan B. Your wife is going to do whatever she's going to do. Meanwhile, you're starved for affection, starved for attention, and starting to "feel energized" by pretty women talking to you. The longer you stay enmeshed the more at risk you become for your own affair -- and the more of a risk you become to the marriage should a reconciliation be possible.

In terms of exposure, is there any reason to believe that your wife's current job will be in jeopardy? If they aren't working together, I don't know why her current company would fire her (or probably even need to know -- maybe just exclude them from the rounds).

Ending the affair still seems to be your best shot at reconciling this relationship -- though I do 100% agree with KaylaAndy that you should call Steve or Jennifer to be sure. Also, if I thought you had any more Plan A in you, I'd really love to see you try that but at this point I think your anger and love loss is too critical for you to even go there.

Mys

Why are you scared of your WS? What do you have left to fear? Just expose already. She'll be pissed off? GOOD!

Hi KaylaAndy and Mys and Jim,

I'm still considering calling up Harley.. not because I can't afford it but more because I don't really see much hope for this marriage at this point. I will do the exposure on Wednesday (because Tuesday is a holiday and I want max impact, and people usually check their emails in the office anyway).. I will leave her current company out of it, and her previous company as well (where OW is).

The email will go out to her personal friends, her sister and her aunt a day after a mailed letter to OW's parents telling them the affair is ongoing with the emails attached to it, and asking for their help in getting OW to have NC with WS.

After that, I will do what I'm doing now -carry on with my life. If she calls up pissed off (and she prob will), I will just say I did what I thought best to try and save my marriage. If she shows up with divorce papers, I will prob sign without batting an eyelid also.

If she doesn't force my hand one way or another, I will go dark, send out the plan B letter a week after exposure, after she has more time to calm down. After which I will disappear from her radar completely until which time I feel I'm ready, then file for a D if she doesn't come back.

I am just so tired of all of this. Last effort from me and thank you all for your help. I really do appreciate it. Please tell me what you think of the above plan.

Hi Jim,

Not afraid, more like feeling like I couldn't be bothered anymore... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

But, I'll do it all the same

About your exposure...

Here is one potential problem with it.

The evidence you have [unless I am mistaken] proves CONTACT and ongoing friendship but NOT actually anything incriminating as far as an affair goes in the eyes of the uninitiated or unwilling to believe.

Something along the lines of "Dear expletive...I am so lost without you blah blah my soul blah alive for the first time yadda yadda" would be a very compelling exposure even at this point and even considering the poor execution of plan A.

However even the doubt that would be cast by any sort of close friendship by the opposite sex is shaky in a lesbian [notice I say lesbian because similar intimacy between two men probably WOULD raise a few eyebrows] affair because...well..that sort of communication between women looks very ordinary and probably supports the case against you that you are controlling and imagining things in denial that your wife might have just left you because she wanted to and not because she's having an affair.

I think at this point [and this is just my personal opinion] the evidence that you actually HAVE is more damaging to YOU in an exposure than it is to her.

Can you get something better?

Again just for clarity...I'm not opposed to exposing her at this point..but saying that if you ARE going to do the damage to the relationship with exposure...then the exposure should be at least equally damaging in exposing the affair relationship AS an affair.

If your intention is not marriage building, then any exposure you do will only hurt you - karma bites that way when intentions are not pure - and yours is just plain full of vengeance and getting your side of the story out to people you don't care to have a relationship with in the first place.

That's why this feels icky to support you in your plan.

Get your intentions clear. If you don't want your marriage, then walk away and end it; living well is the best revenge you can have at this point. Let karma take care of your wife/STBX.

If your intention is marriage building, then make sure you jettison your rage and find your love again, before your exposure.

I will post the emails I want to send and you tell me what you think, whether is it strong enough or not:


--------------------------------------------------------



From: OW
To: WS

hi dear..

hehe.. are you surprised to receive my email? decided to drop you a little note to brighten up your day..

sigh.. wonder how're you? how's the flight? at this point in time, you're still on the plane and i guess your phone didn't work in japan.. quite disappointed somehow.. hope your flight was ok and you managed to rest well..

don't think you received my 2 smses i sent just prior to you touching down in japan.. juz to let you know, our time calculations are wrong.. LA is 15 hours behind ( so your 7am is my 10pm and you can start calling me from your 5pm cos i should be awake already )..

hope you'll enjoy LA.. but come back soon... i miss you... muak!

--------------

From: WS
To: OW

Hey dearie,
Yup you surely surprised me. Although it is not day time now.. you surely made me smile.

I miss you too!!
LA is great but could be so much better if you are here.. cause i think we will enjoy it so much. anyway i can't wait to come back too!!
there's so much to do when i get back.
gtg to ZZZZZZZZ in awhile.
nitey

-----------------------

From: OW
To: WS

hi dear..

happy training.. hope you didn't fall asleep.. hehe.. guess even if you did, it's undestandable cos of the jet lag.. hmmm.. how's your training? interesting? you understand your products better already?

well.. i'm doing my resume now.. hope to be able to send it out by tomorrow.. quite excited about it.. will let you know when i send it out.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

ok.. gtg do my resume now then try to sleep early.. take care my dearest.. nitezzzzz...

-----------

From: WS
To: OW

Hey dearie

I just had my dinner. Had it with 2 guys.. one from california but a philippino and the other from Canada. I asked the Fillipino guys about [Company name] cause he was working for them for 7 years... he said it was a great company to work in. Good benefits, good growth and some years back they were laying off people but now they are growing.
How's your day been? I tried calling using a phone card but i can't get through. I think the hotel only have phone cards for US calls only. Sigh!!
I think I'll try to get them again on wednesday or else my phone bill is really going to be very expensive.
I gtg take bath now. miss you..
love,


----------------------------------------




From: WS
Subject: Fwd: Your Viator.com Booking
To: OW

Hi dear
this is my tour details. just to let you know.
Good night!

-----------------------

From: OW
To: WS

hi dear..

sounds good.. i think you'll really enjoy yourself.. disneyland and hollywood.. hmm.. good combination.. take more photos ok?

--------------------

From: WS
To: OW

Ok dear.. i''ll check for that
It's lunch break now. I hope I won't fall asleep later .heheheheh
Call you later when you wake up.
counting down.. 6 days
Missing you

-------------------

From: OW
To: WS

cheer up dear... dun be so gloomy.. muz try to enjoy yourself.. it's not everyday that you get to go to the US for training.. some more you travelled so far already, muz try to see more things and enjoy the freedom you have there.. dun be burdened by the things here.. take these few days to really release the stress.. come back then worry.. understand? smile... 5 more days.. love you..

---------------

From: OW
To: WS

hi dear..

hmm.. looks like i'll have no lunch time email from you since you are happily out touring your head office.. hehe.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

how's your head office? enjoyed the visit? hope you'll enjoy the dinner by the beach.. muz be very nice.. sigh.. wish i'm there too..

4 more days then you'll be back.. can't wait...

-------------------

From: WS
To: OW

Elo dear
I think i might be missing home.. you know my usual routine.
Kinda miss everybody back home... sigh!!
but of course it's also that e-mail that didn't cheer me up too!!
anyways i will take your advice on that.. will try to cheer up and focus on myself.. heheheh
it;s lunch time now.. will go out for food soon.
sleep well dear
wake u up later!

-------------------

From: WS
To: OW

i can't wait too!!!
loks like i can e-mail.... heheheh. they are doing training.
not applicable to me .:) but i m still listening
hmmm.. i haven't tour the place yet..but the place is HUGE.... very nice, like a whole town ship of [company name]. how cool is that!!
anyway my sis is in luck i will be going to the outlet mall for dinner today. so mb i'll get for her after all.
miss you, dear

------------------------
From: OW
To: WS

hi dear..

hehe.. yup.. your sis is in luck.. hmmm.. you are attending your last day of training already.. after this, it should be more fun.. can go explore LA and all the fun stuff.. but muz be more careful ok? LA's not so safe, so try not to go out after dark.. you should get more rest.. you said you were very tired this morning right?

ok.. i've finished packing and am getting ready to sleep already.. gotta wake up at 730am tmr morning.. love you..






So, what do you think? After re-reading these again, I feel even more strongly about letting her go and moving on. If she really wants to be with OW so much, then I'm inclined to let her.. give her enough rope to hang herself -why am I bothering with this woman?!?

It is strong enough with the admitted previous physical affair. I would state that you found out about the physical affair, your W agreed to NC, and you found (via these emails) that it was continuing the whole time, and that is why your wife wasn't working on the marriage with you. I would only include a couple of them (like the ones that say miss you and love you).

Erm...

OK I have read them all together and I just have to say...if Ididn't know exactly what I was looking for I wouldn't believe your conclusions to be anything other than the constructs of your imagination.

I could most CERTAINLY be accused of lesbianism by that standard in many many communications with close female friends.

There are one or two things that stand out a little bit...but really not very much Dev.

If this is to be your last exposure I'd really try to get something better if I were you or drop the idea all together.

I don't see the point in exposing that she has very ordinary looking not scandalous emails with someone she already publicly calls a close friend.

I think that they would be very well sent in combination with something more concrete coupled with your assertion that ALL contact was to be terminated and was agreed on as such.

That brings the lies to the foreground as well.

Thx Jim

Hi noodle,

Errm, I DON'T have anything else, unless you consider her $700+ phone bill when she was in the US, most of which was btw her and OW. I showed these emails to a friend of WS who knew about the A who kept asking me how I could be so sure, and after seeing it, even he admitted that "something fishy is going on" and never asked me again how I could be sure of an ongoing A.

U really think the 'evidence' is weak? If I word the email slightly differently to incorporate what Jim suggested, i.e. bringing up the admitted physical affair etc, you think that her friends can't/wouldn't put 2 and 2 together easily from looking at the emails?

Yeah,

I do think the evidence is weak for anyone who does not already support you.

Emails and phone calls...especially to her BFF as she'll no doubt sell it...even really lengthy ones that run up a ton of bills ...well that's really explainable especially for a woman who has just or was about to leave her marriage.

Now to someone who already knows there was a PA affair between them...well they don't need exposure they already have it...and suprise suprise a lot of them will support her anyway and help her continue.

You could expose ongoing contact or tell them that she is breaking an agreement she made with the husband she has already physically left...but most people now consider those agreements null and void...so no dice there.

I'm trying to be realistic.

There's nothing wrong with exposing even now imo..exposure is hard on affairs...I think that the end of her affair is the best shot you have at her being willing to reconsider the marriage...however what you have there isn't REALLY exposure to anyone who hasn't already been exposed..is it?

So can you GET some better material?

A photograph or something concretely romantic rather than merely intimate?

If you don't have hard concrete proof of the physical affair between them, I would include the reason that she stepped down from her job (out of the blue) was to get away from OW and supposedly work on the marriage. If you don't have hard proof, at least connect the dots for them.

I have found over the last few days/week that my desire to wait or to expedite the end of the affair between my WS and the OW has diminished to the point where I now ask myself "What am I waiting for?". Will I recognize my WS if she does emerge from the A, and more importantly, will I want her back?

The answer I keep getting to is "I don't really care anymore..."

Am I angry with her for the A? Yep.

Am I resentful because she left me for OP? You bet.

Am I willing to take her back? I don't know.

I have no love left for WS, or there's so little left that I don't feel much of anything when I think about her.

I realized from reading lots of BS's threads on MB that they all at least had something to motivate them to reconcile, most of the time children, and in most cases also, that the BS still loves the WS lots, even when in plan B.

Me? I just want to drop everything and get on with my life. I don't wanna expose the A because I no longer care if the A ends or not. I don't even get angry when I think about the A anymore, just a vast indifference.

Now, is this stage a normal one for a BS? I don't know.

I can't see myself reconciling with WS, and I don't think I have any motivation to do so at this point. We have no kids, no assets in common, no love. Why bother?

bump