Thank you so much Trigirls. I appreciate it. I try but sometimes it's hard but then I think that my kids do what they see you do and I am trying to stop the cycle with my family that my parents followed.

LG I do believe I am in for the long haul. I know he really loves me. Also I am not into being anyone's goodtime girl. You know how they have on the bathroom walls call so and so for a goodtime. I don't want that. I have three girls of my own. Also thank you for checking in on me. I think that's really sweet.

I need you to explain this to me.

Your last post spoke of your H filling your LB and you couldn't be happier.

The proof is that it keeps occurring. That's the kicker.


Also I would love to take the lead but I need ideas on how to convince him to take me outside on the balconey it was the whole reason I got it.

DIG:

You asked me to clarify something:

You posted this:



And I stated that:



Meaning that your H has got to continue filling your LB. Because its real easy to empty the LB. Think about the LB as slow to fill, but easy to empty. And you can get to a point where that is less true, that a LB Withdrawal never gets you into a negative LB with your spouse. You have the ability to discuss with them the LB W/D and how they can avoid them in the future. I can sorta do that now with my W.

How to get your H out to the balcony?

Look at your calendar. Find a day with a Full Moon, if you want light, or No Moon, if you want it dark. A couple of days before or a couple of days after will give similar effects...

Get the kids out of the house. Off to grandma's and grandpa's.

Set the table on the balcony. Drink's/beer/Candles/cushions. Strawberrys/chocolates/whipped cream/oils/lotions

Get a blanket/comforter/chaise lounge/cot out on the balcony.

Find your sexiest robe with something slinky underneath.

And have a seat on the Balcony.

He'll get the point....(a point? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> )

If that doesn't work, he's a prude. Nothing I can do to help him then....

Or open the doors to the balcony the next time the evening is warm enough and then open them more often. If you have a Love Seat or bench in your bedroom, move it over to the door. Use it a couple of times... Get close to the door, then it is easier to move outside.

If you had a Hot Tub outside, like I do? The rest is easy...

Now that's what I am talking about. I needed a plan now I can work with that. I think the working my way up to it would be best for him. I know I will have to get some beer into him but I know it will be worth it.


I also understand what you mean about letting him know when he is doing things to empty my LB. I am letting him know when he does that and we are both doing better at it. It takes time like you said. I think we were meant to help each other grow and even though that growth is hard at times it is definitely worth it. I think my H is a ****** of a man and I am lucky that he is more patient with me than I am with him.

Dig... away from astrology now, I see why you are really here. I have a question for you? Have you ended your emotional affair with the 22 year old CS rep? Have you ended all contact with this man? If not... what is holding you back from doing so? I see that in your earlier posts that you felt that the "pressure" that the friend put on your H to meet your needs was something that you were hesitant to give up. Do you see how this is in itself an EA?

To answer your question I have never started an EA with the CS rep I was only attracted to him and I never acted on it. I told my H I was because I knew the only reason I was, was that I wasn't getting what I needed from him.

I see that in your earlier posts that you felt that the "pressure" that the friend put on your H to meet your needs was something that you were hesitant to give up. Do you see how this is in itself an EA?

I don't get this statement. Can you elaborate?

I had been trying to get my H to meet my EN long before this man came along. So I don't see how this is an EA. This is why I asked the question to begin with. It seems to me that most of the BS are trying to make it seem that any feeling of longing that you feel for anyone is an EA. I personally don't believe that. I think that you can be attracted to someone and it not be an EA unless you begin to act on it. By that I mean if you don't even let the other person know how you feel and you tell your S as I have done instead of telling the OM what is wrong with that. If I put pressure in my H it is because I am tired of being neglected and now I realize that I was not the only one being neglectful but so was my H. I wanted him to see what I now understood. That what he was doing and not doing fo me was hurting him the way I realized the same of my actions were doing to him.

I am glad that my other post made you curious enough to find out more about my sitch. Do you have any helpful advice for me.

There are several things here that point to an obvious EA.

You stated in here that you were

This, DIG, is an EA. You should NEVER speak to this person again! That is the advice I can offer you first and foremost and until you complete that task, everything else is secondary.



You are comparing the OM and your H... and you like the attention the OM has shown to you. THIS IS AN EA! You are in an active affair until you end all contact with him.

MEDC

Dr Harley does say that you should tell your spouse if you are attracted to someone else. It's part of the radical honesty that's practiced on MB. It also brings into the open what could have developed into more.

If you are in the position of it being "longing" and not just "attraction" then, yes, it is an EA, even if it's one sided.

An EA is also talking to someone else in a way you wouldn't talk if your spouse was there looking over your shoulder.

As to your H neglecting you. I see you have four very young children. You are probably both VERY busy and if you don't protect and persevere with your marriage now, it can only get worse.

Medec if you read further into my post you will notice that I have been stop talking to this man and that he is the farthest thought from my mind. My H and I have been working on our relationship and we are doing well.

If you are in the position of it being "longing" and not just "attraction" then, yes, it is an EA, even if it's one sided.


Kiwi there I go with miswording again. I didn't mean I am longing for him just thatI had the hots for the guy because he was a major cutie and if I wasn't M he would be on my to do list. However since I am and I have no desire to hurt my family or his I have long ago stop talking to him. Since right after I made my first post.

Medc when you say plenty signs point to this being and EA I would really like to know what they are. I took Dr Glass's test and was honest about my feelings and it said that we may still be only friends so I am at a lost. So if you could please clarify that for me. Thanks

Frankly if your own words above don't point that out to you what the EA issues are, I am more concerned for you. Why don't YOU read your words and answer what YOU think the problems areas would be.

And BTW, I DID clarify a few areas above.

So that I am clear... you have ended all contact with the OM? All contact?

I am an attractive woman and he never lets me know he thinks I am and the OM does



You are comparing the OM and your H... and you like the attention the OM has shown to you. THIS IS AN EA! You are in an active affair until you end all contact with him.


This statement right here I said I was attractive so you are trying to tell me that if I go outside my house and any man says that I look nice and it makes me feel good then I am having an EA with them as well. That rubbish if I ever heard it.

Also me saying that I like talking to the OM which I did but when I realized that I like it a little more than I was comfortable with and came here looking for help and have since stopped talking to him how is that an EA?

If you say so Dig... if you think it is rubbish that you were looking forward to a PARTICULAR person finding your attractive is rubbish... well, go ahead with your dillusion.

I have wasted enough time on you and really don't wish to get into an argument with someone that can't even carry on a discussion based on truth and fact. The stars have all aligned for me to say bye, bye.

DIG, here is my take on this topic and your situation:

Shirley Glass defines an Emotional Affair as follows (I agree with this definition):

[color:"blue"] A platonic friendship, such as those that grow at work, edges into an emotional affair when three elements are present:

* Emotional intimacy. Transgressors share more of their ''inner self, frustrations and triumphs than with their spouses. They are on a slippery slope when they begin sharing the dissatisfaction with their marriage with a co-worker.''

* Secrecy and deception. ''They neglect to say, 'We meet every morning for coffee.' Once the lying starts, the intimacy shifts farther away from the marriage.''

* Sexual chemistry. Even though the two may not act on the chemistry, there is at least an unacknowledged sexual attraction.[/color]

Therefore, according to Shirley Glasses’s definition of an EA above, it’s clear that you did not have an EA with the man although one of the elements of an EA (sexual chemistry) was present. However, it didn’t seem you had emotional intimacy with this man or any secretive or deceptive behavior with him (the other two elements of an EA) and therefore it wasn't an EA IMO.

Similarly, the fact that you were looking forward to a PARTICULAR person finding you attractive (as stated by MEDC) and the fact that the man had let you know that he find you attractive, again indicates only one of the elements of an EA e.g. sexual chemistry but not a full blown active EA yet (because of the other two elements of an EA which were absent).

It further appear to me (because of your attraction and longing for the man) that you were engaged in an one-sided EA with him (since you had inappropriate and adulterous thoughts about him but didn’t act on it any way). Please read the following old thread on this topic (just click on the link) to go into further detail on this:

[b]Can emotional affairs be one sided?[/b]

wed
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Reged: 01/29/03
Posts: 3876

Re: Can emotional affairs be one sided?
#610184 - 03/09/04 11:28 AM
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Dear BH,

I think that I've had a couple of emotional affairs if they can be one-sided. I've been attracted to a couple of guys throughout my marriage and I've wondered what it would be like to be with them if I weren't with my H.

My therapist disagrees however. She feels that you really aren't in control over who you are attracted to. You are fully responsible for what you do about the attraction. So, if you spend lots of time with the person and let them begin to meet emotional needs then you are feeding the attraction. If you avoid the person and don't let them meet emotional needs then you are not feeding the attraction. Feeding it could mean EA, not feeding it simply means you had an attraction.

I personally feel that an affair actually begins with a confession of feelings for another. Just to be on the safe side, I've confessed all of my attractions to other men to my H. He feels that none of them were affairs and we both consider him to be the "expert"...lol!

Stillwed

This is where I was. I was attracted to this man but I didn't feed into it. I instead told my H so we could deal with it accordingly. I told my H what I was feeling so we could deal with our issues. I could see how I could have gotten involved in an EA but I didn't. It's a difference. I have added more examples. My H is now working to meet my EN so we no longer have that problem. Also let me say again I do not even think of the OM anymore unless someone here mentions it. Haven't spoken with him in almost 2 months because I was attracted and suspected he was to me as well and it scared me.


Dear Dr. Harley,

I am female, 34 years old, and have been married 8 years. Lately, I have felt very ignored and restless in our relationship. I don't think my husband is aware of these feelings because I try to hide them, but they are in my heart. He buys me beautiful gifts and tries to give me his love and support. He has always been a very kind man, but he would rather watch TV and talk to our dog than talk with me. That's just the way he is.

Recently a man has come into my life that has rekindled feelings in me that have been dormant for a long time. I find myself thinking about him often and wish I could be with him. I feel so guilty and ashamed of these feelings, but nevertheless, they are there. I try not to think about him, but I do. I don't know if he feels the same way about me, but sometimes he looks at me in a way that gives me a signal that he might. Nothing has been said or done between us. I don't want to tell my husband about this because this man is my husband's best friend. There are things I can do to get closer to the "other man" if I will allow it to happen, but I'm afraid of the consequences. I feel I'm at a crossroads. I'm sure you've heard this type of story before. I would value your opinion. I cannot talk to anyone about this.

R.J.




The more sane way to approach unsuspected feelings of love toward those outside of marriage is to confront the problem honestly and intelligently. But R.J. did not want to appear to be an ungrateful complainer, so she violated the Policy of Radical Honesty. She did not reveal her true feelings to her husband so that they could resolve the crisis together.

It's true that in some marriages a spouse will complain about an unmet need, and find their complaint met with anger and recriminations. When there seems to be no hope for satisfaction, these people find themselves particularly vulnerable to an affair. After all, the spouse had a chance to meet the need, but refused. So why not have an affair?

But in R.J.'s case, and in many like her's, the spouse is given no opportunity to learn to meet the unmet need, because it is not clearly revealed.

So far, R.J. is not actually having an affair. She is simply drawn to Bob. He is attractive to her because he is so easy to talk to. Whenever they are together, he makes a special effort to converse with her, and he shows a genuine interest her favorite topics. The friends of good conversation prevail, and the enemies of good conversation are nowhere to be found (see the Q&A column, "What to Do When Your Conversation Becomes Boring and Unpleasant"). The pleasure of her conversation with him deposited so many love units that she fell in love with him, and so it's natural to assume that she will want to talk to him even more. She is finding it difficult to wait for the next opportunity to see him. If she wants to talk to him more often, she will need to create new ways to spend more time with him.


R.J. is now at a crossroads. She can take the next step in developing her relationship with her husband's friend, or she can explain her problem to her husband and try to resolve the issue with him. The advice I gave her was to tell her husband about the entire situation. He should be the one she enjoys talking to the most, and her feelings for his best friend was a good wake-up call. If her husband were to learn to meet her need for conversation, the temptation to have an affair with Bob would be much easier to handle.

But if she were to do what most people instinctively do, her next step would be to tell the man how she felt about him, and ask him to get together with her more often, privately. She would tell him precisely what she wrote in her letter to me, saying that he has "rekindled feelings in me that have been dormant for a long time. I find myself thinking about you often and wish I could be with you. I feel so guilty and ashamed of these feelings, but nevertheless, they are there. I try not to think about you, but I do."

Once this honest expression of feelings is out of the bag, an affair is off and running. Even if her husband's friend had never given her a single romantic thought, the seed is planted, and starts to grow. Such an admission would lead to his thinking long and hard about his own marriage, and he would start seeing R.J. in an entirely new way. If one of his important emotional needs was not being met in his marriage, he would express his frustration to R.J., and she would willingly agree to meet that need. The rest would be history.

Of course, it's possible that Bob, all along, was feeling the same way toward R.J. as she felt for him, and after her declaration of love for him, he would immediately reciprocate, fall into each other's arms, and run off to a motel together.




Dear Dr. Harley,

I have been married almost seven years to a wonderful man who treats me like a queen. I was pregnant when my husband and I got married, but I never experienced the passion for him that I know I can feel for a man. We now have four children and he has been a solid foundation for our relationship and our family. He has done whatever he can do to make me happy. I do not deserve him....

I am a very aggressive woman in my mid 30's, I love to party, dance and laugh. My husband, on the other hand is very passive and serious. He's just not much fun. The problem: I am gravitating towards an older man in his late 40's. A man with a tremendous zest for life, who too is married, and in the same business as myself. I have not had sex with this man, but I feel as though I am falling in love.

I am overwhelmed with guilt...I know that I am a horrible wife for feeling this way..PLEASE HELP!!

N.S.


It's not uncommon to find a person that does a good job meeting our needs, but it's dangerous when our spouses are doing a bad job. At first, we simply find ourselves in love with this person. If we also love our spouses, we shake it off and move on. But if we are not in love with our spouses, like you, we feel confused as to why we don't have the same feeling toward our spouses.

DIG, the example of R.J. you posted above (from Dr Harley's Q & A column) gives a very clear difference between the temptation to have an A and a situation where boundaries have already been crossed into EA. IMO, the moment R.J. would have confessed her feelings to her husband’s friend, she would have crossed boundaries into an full-blown, active EA. She had an “one sided EA” or “fantasy based EA” because of the feelings she developed for her H’s friend and the inappropriate thoughts she had about him. She betrayed her H in the sense that she chose to dwell on feelings for OM and entertained inapproriate thoughts about him e.g. betrayal/adultery in the heart & mind. However, she didn't took the betrayal to the next level and gave in to the temptation to act on her feelings verbally and/or physically.

I wanted to say that I really appreicate this thread...I know that I'm going to have to watch myself very carefully...

Suzet, If I'm understand right the moment that you admit your feelings for someone else you are developing an EA...now, in my case, I don't have to worry about STHXB for the obvious, but I would like to keep an eye on myself so that I don't damamge someone else's sitch/R/M...

The last thing I want is to become the OW!

Thanks to every one for there thoughts here!

What do you mean, by "express your feelings to someone else"? I think that you can be involved in an EA without "expressing feelings for someone." If you are involved with someone on a regular basis and you are not telling your S about the relationship--that is a big sign of an EA. If you are using other words like, "wow, this is fun" or, "you are really special" or "captivating", or if you are kidding on the square about "feelings" for them--this is EA territory, again, especially if you are not disclosing fully the conversations you are having with your spouse.

The best way to look at it is: would I feel completely comfortable if my spouse could hear all that I am saying or all that I am writing, or if my S could see all that I am doing with this OP.

Even then, I know that people fool themselves into thinking, "sure, this is ok, I'm just having a little fun. S knows I love him/her so there is nothing wrong with what I am doing."

Strivn,
for you if you don't want to be the OW, just keep in mind==Does the guy you are interacting with have a girlfriend, is he married?? How is he interacting with you?? Do you think he should be interacting in this manner with you if he is married or has a girlfriend?

Granted, you don't always know if a guy is married or has a girlfriend. But, I think that if you find he is interacting with you in a manner that you think a wife or girlfriend would not appreciate--it's time to find out if there is a wife or girlfriend.

My FWH never said words to the effect of "I am interested in a relationship with you" to his OW. But he said plenty of other stuff that he knew was as he said to me later, "Over the top."

He played games with himself in a variety of ways while he was involved with her. He knew he did not want anything physical and he thought of her as "just an old friend that he was getting back together with." He now knows that the moment that he began interacting with her and deliberately hiding this fact from me--that was the start of the EA. He looks back at his behavior and sees that the moment he was withholding information from me about the interaction, that was the moment the EA started. Fortunately, it quickly ended when I started to figure things out!!
Lake

Strivn4Better, not necessarily (as already explained to you by lake53). It’s definitely possible for a person to be involved in an EA without confessing feelings of love or attraction towards each other (I was involved in such an EA for long time but fooled myself into thinking it was just a “close friendship”. I fooled myself into thinking that I was doing nothing wrong as long as I don’t act on my feelings verbally or physically). Remember, the 3 elements of a EA (refer to my post about Shirley Glass) is 1)emotional intimacy; 2)secrecy and deception e.g. ANY interaction with the person you hide from your spouse or he/she hide from his/her spouse or significant other and 3)sexual chemistry/unacknowledged sexual attraction - and all 3 these elements (or some of them) can be present without confessing feelings towards each other.

What I’ve said in my previous post about crossing boundaries into an EA when confessing feelings, specifically applied to R.J’s case in the example from Dr Harley’s Q & A column or people in similar situations where the other elements of an EA are not yet present.

Let me explain: So far, R.J’s interactions and communications with her H’s friend were just friendly (from both sides) and no emotional intimacy or deception/secrecy in her interactions with him (2 of the elements of an EA) have taken place. However, she felt attracted to him; developed “feelings” and entertained inappropriate thoughts about him. From her side, this already indicates one of the elements of an EA e.g. sexual chemistry or at least an unacknowledged sexual attraction. But the most important is that, even though R.J. was not yet involved in EA, Dr Harley advised her to stop the friendship and end ALL contact with this guy…and I advice you to do the same if the man you have this attraction to and feelings for is married or have a GF...otherwise you will be playing with fire and will eventually become an OW.