I don't have a lot of time VS, but no WD won't be happing much as long as she sees him and or spends time togther such as lunch groups.

Plan A can be done while apart, it is just much harder.

Even Dr. Harley says that getting out would be an option given your hist. I like to give every M a shot to work first.

Keep asking questions. There are many that know lots more than I do.

You can always change your title to read something like"WW moved out, how to plan A now?"

I also think my wife might be just so in love with her new single life, that she just doesn't want to be married anymore. So I have that going against me as well, which is nice... hahahaha.

I'll just keep praying everyday for my peace...not necessarily for my wife back.

VS,

have you read Jayban's thread? His wife moved out(withDD), but still liked her "new" life. Well now she is back talking to and doing things with Jay.

Your wife is like a ship without a rudder. She is trying to find her way, anyway, to get a life she likes. You need to be her lighthouse. Loving when see talks to you. Caring when you spend time togther. No LB.

Again, you CAN do this my friend.

I haven't seen his thread, but will going there now.

I just think with my WW being 27, her being with me since 19, this is a whole new world for her. One with no boundaries, no one to answer to, and excitement around every corner. Why would she want to come back to her confining married life where she has to answer to someone for everything she does? I just don't see how its possible! My WW is a free spirit and think what she is doing now plays right into her hands......whatever. I'll keep fighting until I dont care anymore.....

ah sh------

Thanks,
VS

I agree with your point, M2L, but that happened after he came back from California, and she never established NC with OM, so he is in plan B now. Also, his thread was deleted because she found it and liked quoting it to him.

Todays Update ( I know, i shouldn't live day to day as this is a marathon):

I text'd her last night and got no response (was late) and called this am just to see if everything is OK as I hadn't talked to her since Wed.

As usual, she was not particularly happy to hear from me and blamed me for something about a drive being mapped to her computer so people can see what she is doing and her email password being reset from multiple attempts of some one trying to access it. Believe it or not, I had nothing to do with it, but find it very odd. Her employer knows of the affair and supposedly HR is reviewing it. So whatever.

So we talked and she was very unhappy, I'm guessing OM isn't talking to her still. I tried to see if she would do something this weekend, but didn't press it. Just said "maybe we can hangout, doesn't have to be at night or anything, maybe lunch and take our dog to the dog park?" She said "We'll see, I don't know". I'm like "well either you want to see me or you don't". Still got the run a round and i don't know so I dropped it. I told her to have a good day and she said "ill call you later" She also said "I called you Wed. night and you didn't answer, where were you?" So I took that as the one positive of the convo, that she actually cared to ask.

So, I'm going to use this thread as a journal of sorts at the suggestion of my therapist. So I can see over time, both the positives and negatives of my interactions with her and see exactly where this is going. I think over time I will see that there just aren't any positives and just let go. Or see that I am acting a certain way and not allowing for positives. So, you all will see this thread for awhile and it wont die. I will appreciate feedback from my log. If this is against forum rules in any way, please let me know. B ut my intentions are to capture what happens and see what other people think and use this as a barometer to see if I can save this marriage or if its worth it.

Call me crazy!!

Have a good one everyone!

Let's say this was you were your son, and his wife was behaving like your wife. What advice would you give him? I absolutely guarantee you'd advise him to do almost the opposite of the way you are behaving. Plan A? Really? Come on...she isn't receptive to it in the slightest. Your behavior now lacks confidence, lacks tact, and doesn't appear to have any direction. If you were a football player, and tried to read your playbook, what play would you be on? The throw your hands up and react to everything the other team does play? Or are you ready to start calling the shots?

Man. She KNOWS you are sitting there just ready for her to come home. You are doing anything. You aren't changing. She might like her single life right now...but guess why. BECAUSE HER HUSBAND IS SITTING AT HOME WAITING ON HER. She might like HER single life, but I promise, she doesn't want you to have one. Why don't you take one out for a spin a try or two. Buy you and a buddy hockey tickets. Or a ticket to a basketball game. Can't afford it? Who cares. I'm not saying go blow $10k, but you know what...blow a little money on yourself. You deserve it. Stay straight, don't sin, but, have a little fun. And then, don't run and tell her. That is your time. She will find out, don't worry...OM will be sure and tell her while they are at lunch 'not at lunch' - doing everything I can to stay away from her.... LISTEN TO YOURSELF.

Ok, if I haven't beat around the bush enough for you. Pick your shoulders up, lift up that chin, get in your car, drive down to a local bar, and have a drink. Smile, sober up, and then come home.

btw, my FWW moved in with OM for 3 months. Now she is home. That was 3+ years ago.

-hang in there

Well...another quick update.

Called her tonight to see if she had plans or wanted to hangout this weekend. She was right off the bat just totally put off and not wanting to talk to me. I asked her what was wrong and she just said she was in a bad mood and aggravated. I asked if she acted this way to everyone, and she said "no just you". I was pretty upset with that. I then told her to stop thinking about OM and get over it, which led to "do not EVER talk to me again about him, ever, or I will never talk to you again". I didn't lose my cool and just asked if we could hang out tomorrow, to which she said no. I don't want to. Eventually, the call ended with "FU** YOU" and she hung up on me. Obviously I was very upset.

In between the hello and FU I asked her if she just wanted me to stop calling and she basically said yes. I then said lets just get a divorce and she said "if thats what you want, then fine". She said she just doesn't understand why I can't give her space and I reminder her that she told me to call her later or that she would call me. So whatever.

I am a glutton for punishment. I think I'm going to lay low for a little while on the contacting her thing. She is obviously going through some serious withdrawal as I flat out asked if she was upset about not seeing him and she basically said yes. So.....

I must sound pretty desperate or stupid to most of you, but I';m thinking she needs someone to lean on while going through withdrawal, but thats not the case.

Laugh while you can everyone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm pretty upset about this, but not like I used to be. I just can't believe a human being can act this way to someone they have spent 1/3 of their life with, married and loved so hard.......it seems inhumane.

VS,

I'd lay odds that she calls you this morning and acts like nothing happened...or tries to make up. Is that the first time you mentioned the "D" word?

VS,

in coming 2x4 man. You should listen to her. She is asking you to stop the A talk. You pushed so much she felt backed into a corner and had to throw out a FU to get you to stop.

First date kinda stuff is what you need to be doing. Yes it hurts to hear your wife talking about how much she misses some other guy. Know what - there is nothing you can do about the past though.

Start being better today. Don't call her for a few days. Let her be. I too bet she will end up calling you in a few days and acting like all is better. It won't be better that quick so still stay away from A, M R talk for now.

Reread RookKev's post. It is as if you aren't listening...and keep repeating the same badgering your wife with calls and being desparate. It is all just annoying her.

You need to back off. Women aren't attracted to men that are needy or lovesick puppy dogs. If she sees that you are strong, calm, self assured, kinda moving on, having a bit of fun with friends...that will get her attention.

What attracted your wife to you in the first place?

Maybe she needs to think she's lost OM and now if she isn't careful she may lose you.

I agree. MY call was one of "whats up? Hows it going? Maybe we can chill out this weekend?" Only to be returned with nasty remarks. Just nasty. Then I made on comment about OM and she flipped, but she was already beyond ticked off when i called her anyway.

I'm not calling for awhile, gathering myself and my plan and going from there. I really think she is not coming back. But I wont give up just yet, as I truly haven't stopped the puppy dog, sad sap, LB routine. Its just not easy at all. I don't know how some of you do it.

OK, so no calls for while. Which is going to be especially hard being the weekend, knowing she is out, drinking and calling OM to come over, but like you all say, there is nothing I can do.

We all failed for a while before realizing our LB's or DJ's, demands and being needy had the opposite effect. We had to learn to bite our tongues and if you can, find Orchid's reverse babble explanation.

When obsessive, negative, WW or A related thoughts enter your mind try you can to freeze frame in your mind and have a mental star down with them until the invariably dissipate; worked for me. Allow yourself to quiet your mind sometimes...meditate/pray and re-center yourself.

I just can't believe that someone you have spent so much of your life with is capable of treating me this way. It just seems so unfathomable..I can't grip it or understand it. The things that have been said to me over the past three months are unbelievable and feel like my WW is not even the same person I married...at all. Not even close. I know that the WS acts this way during and A and all that, it still doesn't make it any easier to understand. I could never imagine treating another human being this way. It seems impossible to hurt another like this.

I know, wake up Vince, its happening. I'm just venting as I believe the act of infidelity should be against the law. I would rather be physically abused, beat up, robbed, etc. than have to go through this pain. Someone needs to work on making that a law <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> What we BS's go through is unbelievable and will effect us for the rest of our lives. Why is marriage a 'legally binding agreement', but it can be broken and disrespected and there are no consequences? Its a strange world we live in!

OK, enough with t he 'why me, poor me' rant. I just want so badly for my WW to wake up. She has changed so much not only in the past three months (duh), but the last week alone. A week or so ago we were hanging out and talking, now she wants nothing to do with me at all and loathes the ground I walk on. I haven't even seen her between now and then! My calls to her have been a little LB, but 100% brought on by her attitude. There have been many times I bit my tongue and changed subjects. It just seems like she must be blaming me on the inside for the fact that OM wont give her the time of day. Its probably hitting her that she gave up all this for him and now he wont talk to her. She is angry and hurt, she basically said it to me last night and "well thats the reality of this situation" speaking about her feelings for OM. I have no idea what happened last night as she said she would call, but didn't, so I'm going crazy wondering, but am going to go find something to do so I don;t have to obsess about it!

OK, thanks for allowing me to ramble.

Are you done with the pity party and ready to move forward? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Listen, most of us have had to have these types of 'pity parties' so don't fret, ok? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The point is that soon your mind and heart w/b in sync and then the WS had better watch out because that will mean you are ready to move forward with or w/o the M. Hm.... scary? Well healing someone requires taking drastic measures to get well.

Get a recovery plan going and work on getting you recovered 1st. Are your financials in order?

take care,
L.

I don't think t he pity party will be over for quite some time. This is something that I will never understand, no matter who does it.

Well, I haven't called her today and she called me at 1:30 and left a message saying "hi, i don't know why you are freaking out, I was asleep when you called last night at 2am and have been running errands all day". I texted her last night on my way home and asked her where she was hoping I could stop by. I texted her again this am wondering what she did last night and if she wanted to do to the dog park like she had said Wed.

Whatever. I'm not calling her back as I know it will lead to LB's and her saying she doesn't want to see or talk to me.

On the flip side, I got a ton done around the house today for the first time in awhile.

VS,

Will you get your head out, and stop contacting her. Let her contact YOU, if she does not, then that tells you all you need to know. You MUST stop the pity party, women don't like "poor me" type of men, and frankly most guys don't either.

You have a life to live, you have friends, you have colleagues at work. Pull you head out, stop the pity and get on with it. You just might find that she will see you differently than she does know. Right now she knows you eat out of her hand and NO matter how outrageous she acts you will be there calling the next day.

Actions have consequences and you have not allowed her to feel the consequences of her actions. Step back, start to live, and be a man YOU would be proud to be around. The standard of behavior my friend is set by YOU, not your W.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Read JL's posts closely. He is giving you a lot of guidance.

Now it is good you got stuff done today. That's progress.

Keep busy and don't engage in convo with a WS. Where's your personal support group?

L.

When do I engage in convo's? Only when she calls or initiates? See, my dilemma here is I know OM is out of the picture for now and she is in withdrawal, so I want to be there for her, but she is obviously pushing back. So its a catch 22.

I also understand she will never fall back in love with the self-loathing, crying, begging, pleading love busting me that I am now, its just so hard to control my emotions. I'm going to really give it a solid try here. I have no choice. This is it. I really think its all for naught, but I will not go down without a fight.

So, this is why I feel it is such a critical time, but I have no idea what the right way is to attack this. with him out of the picture, I would like to satisfy her EN's, but not sure how to go about doing it, especially since she is rejected anything I try now, but that is probably because I am calling her daily and asking to see her and not acting strong and confident. I guess you can't make someone want you, or want to come back to you. It is most likely only a matter of time before he gets back into the picture and I am out for goos. This has been going on for over 3 months now with absolutely NO signs of positive movement on her part. No movement towards reconciliation or recovery at all. I have seen her 5 times since she moved out Feb 1. and 3 were because I asked to see her and two were so she could get mail or other item from house.

This is just so frustrating and it my whole life at stake here. Not life threatening, but life altering for sure....

Thanks for listening and God bless.

As I said above, I emailed OM last week, as I was temporarily mentally insane and just hit a wall. I couldn't take it anymore. My WW has told me that she hasn't seen him in 4 weeks and he wont talk to her. She also emailed him a week ago, which she never does because they Instant Message each other. I'm taking the email as sign that he is no longer accepting her IM's. She has not sent him an email since December

For you experts out there, I wanted to post what he wrote and see what you guys think and for you others that writing OM is not always a terrible thing:

""""I don’t know where you are getting the idea that I have been hanging out with Liz. I promise you, I haven’t. If my department goes to lunch and she joins in, I make it a point to sit away from her. I have made it clear to WW that I don’t want anything to do with her, you, your current situation, nothing. You and/or your friends’ emails and phone calls have effectively made me adjust my way of life. I had already cut down communications with Liz way down to a professional level, but when I learned that my bosses were getting emails from you and your group, that was the last straw.

I am not saying these things to upset you or to have you retaliate. I’m just trying to tell you that I am not talking to, visiting, chatting with, nothing with WW. I am telling you that I am not doing anything to derail what you have been trying to put back together.

I will not tell WW the context of your last email and for some reason I am still trying to figure out whether or not to tell her you wrote. But for some reason I think if I did tell her, you will suffer. So I will not tell her. But I am serious when I tell you that I have had enough of this situation. Whatever stories you hear, I promise you it was not nor will it ever be me.

I do respect you and your wishes. That is why I don’t talk to her unless I have to. If nothing else, you need to understand that I have done what you have asked of me. When she walks into our room, I don’t even so much as turn to greet her. Out of respect for you; the troubles you and your families are going through; and that all of this that has become a horrible situation for everyone. """"

My therapist and I have identified the four major factors that are bringing me down and just ruining my life:
1. Knowing my wife is with another man.
2. Knowing my wife wants to be with another man and has done so (the thought of her being intimate with him his debilitating), and no longer is with me, or wants to be
3. The fact that my wife is no longer a part of my life and that she most likely never will be again. The day to day of not having my best friend and partner there when I go to sleep, awake, watch TV , do activities, is killing me
4. The uncertainty of my future in general. Not knowing where my life is headed.

So, for the time being, i have been able to scratch #1 off my list. Which was my biggest hurdle in my head to get over.

Anyway, I am using this email from him as a building block for me to try and move forward. Up until this point I have been doing the bare minimum to survive. Not cleaning house, not doing laundry, late on paying bills, not taking care of myself, etc. Since that email, I have started to get it together. Strange I know. But I will take anything I can at this point to build off of. My WW is crumbling, and I just want to be there for her, but it seams as if she is more distant than ever, and I can only assume it is because of the A failing and her blaming me for it as OM told her that all the drama is not worth it and that she lied to him about our marriage. She told him it was over and I didn't love her. He is finding out that is quite the contrary and feels bad about what he has done and duped by my WW. Just my take.

As for communication the last 24 hours, I haven't tried to contact her or anything. Like I said above, she finally called me at 1pm yesterday and asked me to call her back. I chose not to as the previous nights conversation was full of hate and anger from her side. I never lost my cool and was just asking why, why, why on everything, which obviously enraged her more.

So this has been going on for 3 months with no positive progress a t all. If anyone is reading this and wants their wife back, leave your email and I can tell you exactly what not to do, as I have done everything the opposite of what you are to do to get your wife back.

Also, I was thinking of the timeline last night. My wife and I were happy and talking of starting a family Dec. 1st(we have no kids) and even looking for houses in North Carolina because of a fantastic job I was going to be offered. I had to turn down the job to save my marriage as she would not leave because of this OM (she didn't say this, but 2 weeks earlier was so excited to move, then used every excuse to not move when it came time) when it came time (Dec. 15th). She moved out Feb. 1st. She says she left me because of me, and it had nothing to do with OM. But she moved out a mere 50 days after HER initiating serious conversations around us starting a family and that she was so excited to take this next step in our lives. Thats crazy! 45 days from the day she moved out, she is in love with OM, has forgotten everything we have had, and wants nothing to do with me. Doesn't this all seem so fast to some of you??? A mere three months ago we were talking about starting our family, now nothing? I'm thinking that somewhere inside of her, there are still some feelings for me and that I can get them back with the right plan! I just need to pull it together. The forces of an A are unbelievably strong, especially when your WW is weak and has an addictive personality to begin with.

Keep the advice coming. I almost need day to day advice...not long term, even though I know this is a long term fix. I struggle day to day to keep my composure.

Thanks everyone for listening and God bles...

VS