Thanks jmwc95- That's just what I needed. I a little reminder that there is light at the end of the tunnel!

VS

Your comment about her not 'saying boo to you all night' is interesting.

I've got a counter question for you: how do you think SHE would have described your interaction with HER????

Did YOU say boo to HER? OR did you just sit there, waiting for her to talk to you?

Get the picture? This IS just like when you were dating...with those same ackward silences, moments when you're not sure what to do, etc... and you respond to them the same way you would have done when you were dating!

Hope that helps.

Hang in there Vince, YOU CAN DO THIS!

I'm struggling with the same issues with my WW, trying not to bring up the A or R or M. I know, it's extremely hard to push your feelings of hurt and betrayal aside when talking to the person responsible for it!

I've only just now begun to notice an affect of Plan A with my WW, much to my surprise! Again, I'm keeping my expectations in the gutter, so any positive response from my WW will be received with much joy, helping me to not take her for granted like I did before. But I am so thankful that I found this site and gained the wisdom here on what to do, as this place has given me the best advice.

Again, you're going to make it, DON'T GIVE UP!

VS, shoot me an email.

Qwl - I was trying the whole night to start a convo. rubbed her back. Talked about what I did this weekend and asked what she did. Tried to stalk about our dog. anything. I put my arm around her several times, her stomach hurt, so I rubbed her back for a while. I was trying everything in the book man.


I'm not giving up, put feel very confused today after last night convo. It was all relationship and M talk as I was basically asking her to decide to be married or not. Her call. Just do one or the other. I know, major mistake, but why should I let this woman have both? This is my life and I won't allow someone to walk all over me like this. I have a lot of pride, and feel it is being stolen and I have to stand up for myself here.

VS

Vince,
I think that i have an idea to kill two birds with one stone...start making plans, whether it is going to the gym, doing stuff with your friends, attending or teaching a class, reading a book, scuba diving, whatever. Get out your planner (or go get a planner) and fill the next two weeks with activites that you feel will be fun or make you a better person. Stuff you always wanted to look into but never had the time for. As one week is exhausted, plan out the next open week. But for the 1st two weeks make sure your time is jam packed with stuff that will be too interesting and to much volume to allow you to dwell on the WW.

This may actually kill more than two birds..you will be busy so you won;t think about her, you will have interesting stuff to talk about while you avoid STARTING R talk or if you need ot change the subject because she is provoking you. You will expand your social circle without even thinking about it and you will create some distance between you and WW. Until the has the space to change direction and start pursuing you, she won't. Plus since you won;t be waiting around for something from her, that will help break your addiction to her.

GF- Why are you on here? You are too smart for this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good plan. Now I just have to implement it.

VS

Ok. Since it seems like the last 5 days I have been incapable of Plan A convo's for the most part, I am going to give it a bit of a rest. No emails, texts or calls until Friday. I'm going to let her sit and stir. Anytime I have done his in the past, she has contacted me after one day of no contact. Lets see what happens.

In the meantime, it me, me, me. I'm going to have things to do, make plans and start my workout program.

Done and done.

I'll report back on my SUCCESSES everyday.

Today: I emailed her late in the day asking if she wanted to hangout tonight. She said "I'll call you later". I got a text at 9 that I did not respond saying "watchya doin?" Thats it. Usually when she txts and does not call, it means she is up to no good and trying to find out what I am doing and making sure I am not keeping tabs on her (PI).

Thanks for the support everyone.

VS

First:


Then:


Well? What's your plan? Giving it a rest, or text messaging her every day?

And if you're going 2 text message her, why not respond when she calls you back? If you think she's trying 2 find out whether you're keeping tabs on her, respond with:

"I'm keeping tabs on you."

Then end the convo.

-ol' 2long

MY plan was of when I wrote the post. What I did was earlier in the day. Sorry, I thought that was clear. I am keeping a journal of what happens, what my interactions are and what her responses are.

Well, no contact made by me yesterday....she texted me at 12:20am asking" are you still up" I was, but refused to respond. Every Wed. night she plays volleyball and goes drinking. Some of those Wed. nights she tries to go to his place afterwards. From what I understand, he doesn't let her in anymore (last 7 weeks or so), but can't be sure that is still the case on both ends - that she still tries to go there or that he denies her requests to see him. I just find it odd that this is the second time in three weeks she has text me after 12am on a Wed. night. I truly believe she is seeing if I am still up to see if it is safe to go to his house as I have a PI and she thinks I am also watching her. So its almost like she is testing the waters to see if it is safe to go there. How can I just assume this? Well, twice in the past, she called and texted me very late asking if I was up or something, only for me to find out she spent the night there. She rarely calls or texts me anytime, but when she does, there is always a motive.

So, I have a feeling she went there, even though she has said it is over,though she doesn't want it to be, and he actually told me it was over as you can see from my post a few dozen up. She still wants to be with him, but he doesn't want to be with her anymore, as the drama and guilt was too much for him (read above). I'm not sure what to believe or think, at it seems to me like she is still seeing him. Guess its time to get the PI involved again.

Do you suggest I ask her today where she was last night? Or just let it go and assume nothing happenned and continue my plan A?

-VS

vince:


No, you did respond, and the answer was "no". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And it was great that she asked it that way, because you could answer, plausibly, without answering! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

vince, you need 2 stop worrying about whether she's trying and/or succeeding 2 get the OM 2 pick up the A again. She probably is. He might very well.

When she's really done playing this s2pid selfish game, you'll know from her behavior 2ward you (if that ever happens).

You need 2 be prepared, emotionally, for any outcome. You need 2 NOT be in your current "condition", or state of mind, if/when she ever does end her A and truly want 2 rebuild.

-ol' 2long

Well, I was right. I called her this am to 'make sure everything was ok' since she called so late. She was very upset and i asked why. She refused to tell me, but after a little prodding, she told me she went over to his place last night. Here's the catch. He told her he doesn't want to see her anymore and that he has a girlfriend. My WW is heartbroken and crying to me about it. I don't know what to do or what to say to her. She basically said she is done with me and that there is no way she can come back, nor does she want to. I didn't press this issue because I believe it is emotional fog talk.

So, with this latest revelation, she also said she hasn't seen him since Feb. 23rd, but I can't figure out why she is so emotional over it. I guess she thought she would be back with him. She also said "I cant believe how stupid I was to believe him" and that "now I have to see is f'ing face everyday at work'.

Anyway, I truly believe there is no way back from this now. I now know that only reason she has been seeing em and calling me the last month or so is because he hasn't been seeing her and I was her crutch. She made is very clear today that she doesn't want me back and doesn't want to give us a chance.

So I guess its up to me if I continue to try and court her or just throw in the towel. The way she talked to me today and emotions she shared were just too much. Crying to me over her lover? Crying that he has a girlfriend? Just too much.n She said he lied to her and he's an a-hole. Whatever.

Another day in the Jerry Springer world.....

Vince,
You are correct. You need to decide if YOU want to court her. You were meeting her EN of conversation and whatever else when you two spoke. You can court her and see if you can fill her LB$ enough for her to fall in love, just like when two people first meet, their interactions are short and generally superficial. As they become more familiar with each other the connection deepens. You WW is in fact a stranger with a face that looks familiar.

Now the crux is do YOU want to do that given what you know? If you knew now, what you knew then would have even begun dating this woman? I would not with my own WW. I wonder how I ended up with 2 children from a complete stranger. Anyway what comes next should be you making your own choice armed with the knowledge you currently possess.

The only things that keep me hanging on is I know what an unbelievable person she was for 7 years and that I married her and swore my life to her under God. She truly was so perfect, but little did I know she had this in her.....

If I knew what I know now, ****** no I wouldn't be giving her the time of day. Unfortunately, my heart is stronger than my brain right now....

I just can't believe she is crying to me about her lover, saying "i cant believe how stupid I am" and "he was my way out of my marriage". I mean, our marriage was pretty good. Not perfect, but good. Maybe only in my eyes I guess.

Things she said today:
"I cant believe how stupid I was to believe him" - after asking why she was so upset
"He was may way out of my marriage" - after asking what was so special about him
"I dont want to talk to you ever again" - basically said multiple times
"I dont have anything for you anymore" - after I asked her to give me a chance
"I dont want to have what we had anymore" - after i asked her to come back to me
"You haven't changed a bit. everytime we talk you have a chance to prove it and you dont" - after I said "do you think its possible that I am the same person I was before?"
"I want a divorce".."Yes I'm sure" - after asking if she wants a divorce
"My job is the only thing I have now" - after I told her to quit.
"What dont you understand, I dont want to be with you"

Yea, I was doing some love busting, but this was a unique conversation and very revealing. I asked to see her tonight to which she said no because her friend is coming over because they are "both going through so much ****** right now".

She asked if I wanted to do something tomorrow night, to which I said i had plans already, but I really want to see her and be there for her now..

Whats a brother to do????

Well, you have eliminated LBs and will build habits to fill her ENs if she lets you right? If that is the case and you are ready to invest your effort in her LB$, then you just need to be patient and meet her ENs every opportunity you have.

Yeah, if she calls you to cry about her XOM, that is filthy rotten stuff to have to breath in, but...you do have the opportunity to practice avoiding LBs under some of the nastiest conditions. If she is talking to you, keep it light on your end and revel in the fact that YOU broke up the filthy affair. Do that revelling silently and say stuff like, "I feel sorry you got hurt so bad by this experience," or "it must be tough dealing with rejection like that (no kidding!!!WAAAAAAAHHAAAAHAAAAHAAA)" try not to laugh out loud or cry either. If you can deliver that rejection one with a straight face, you should be OK.

So talk to her, maybe try to talk about some of the stuff you are doing that is fun, or if she has any activities other than pining for OM act real interested in that. She'll get over it and still be in the habit of talking with you, she'll probably want to start spending time together once she is over her withdrawal. At some point if you start to get serious again, you'll have to get Steve Harley to help make a plan to keep you both from hurting each other and to fall in love.

OK that 1 call is OK, but stick to these!!!!!!
DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

Just saw that...FUNNY. I am as gullible as anybody and Mrs GF is very convincing when she lies and very scary when she intimidates you away from things she doesn't want to discuss.

Gave up my fears for Lent and send her letters or emails so she can't avoid hearing what I have to say. She's too curious, like a cat, and cannot resist reading that stuff even when the subject is "Relationship Stuff - Read with Caution"

You're right...it's fog. And the fact that she's crying on your shoulder is proof.

And this is all GOOD news. Yes, even though you're sitting there listening to her cry about the loss of OM. I went through it too. She's in the withdrawl state...that's GREAT! My wife went through it too..and I used it as a perfect opportunity to show her how much I loved her. By being there for her, by not LB'ing her while she was dealing with her grief over the end of the affair...it meant nothing to her WHILE she was in her withdrawl, but when she came out of her funk, she was able to see who was REALLY the man that she loved. She had HER proof...by my being there for her during the worst of it, and loving her and supporting her even through MY pain.

It sucked...but it was also worth it. I tolerated a lot of stuff during that 3 weeks she went through all of this...but again, in the end, it was a large part of WHY we were able to recover.

This seems to be the same kind of opportunity for you. Don't push her about rebuilding your M right now...instead, be there for her while she's dealing with all of this...and do NOT LB AT ALL.

It's how I managed to save my marriage at least.

Vince:

Do this RIGHT NOW!!!

Call the counseling center at MB (link at the top of the page), and set up an appointment. You NEED 2 follow the plans BY THE BOOK and stay rigidly on that NARROW PATH if you want 2 recover your marriage.

All the things she said are typical, and as Owl said - GOOD NEWS. What you do next will make ALL the difference in the world going forward.

CALL THE HARLEYS RIGHT NOW.

I really don't want 2 hear any excuses, whatsoever. I'm serious.

-ol' 2long