I understand 100% what I need to do. I;m always looking for a short term cure to my pain and this whole problem, like one phone call or visit is going to cure everything and make my pain go away.. I need to realize that this is only making it worse.

I have a plan, I'm just not executing it. I keep thinking I need to see her, or I need to call her. Like, even right now, I'm thinking "I have to see her tonight."

I'm not sure how anyone can get that she wants to be with me, unless you all believe what she is saying to be fog talk. But, she has been very clear when she tells me she wants a D and that she doesn't see anyway back to me, she has no love for me, she doesn't ever want to be with, "I don't want that life again, I had it once, I don't want it "etc.

If someone could explain what I am missing here? I see absolutely no hope here by what she is saying and doing. She promised Thur. that we would hangout fri. Friday came and she promised we would hangout Sat, instead. Sat came and she said "I just don't want to see you. Sorry." She ended up doing nothing and going to bed at 11, so its not like she had plans. She just didn't want to be with me. Still, even today, she says "I don't want to see you tonight".

So, is this just natural fog talk and that I just need to give it time? Do you think I may have killed off any love that remained between us the last 4 weeks with my neediness and unrelenting behavior?

Thanks,
VS

Vince,

At least go dark for a little while. She's just now starting withdrawl because she's gotten crumbs from OM this whole time. Now that she accepts that it's over with him she is now in a true withdrawl. She needs a good month to get over the worst part. Then you can start being a part of her life again.

I also fear that you don't understand the dynamics of what WW's go through. Have you read SAA? It will open your eyes much better than this forum. This forum's good for support, advice and perspective, but SAA is the Bible of understanding affairs and relationship dynamics. You need this understanding. If you don't have SAA get it and read it over and over for the next month. Then try with WW again if you still want to.

Simple Enough?
Sound like a plan?

MD-
It's not like I sit there and say "poor you baby, is there anything I can do"

I tell her in no uncertain terms "you made your bed, now lie in it. You cheated on your husband and he slept with a married woman. WTF did you expect to come from this?"

Now, I have no argument for being needy and the constant calling and stuff, but I am not ignoring what people are telling me. I read it, say I am going to do it, then I just don't. I listen, I don't act. I know, I need to get it together. Don't you think i want to. I really don't enjoy crying 8 hours a day and thinking about my wife sleeping with another man, but its my reality right now and I don't know how to make it go away. Its not going to. So I need to figure out a way to deal with it, and I haven't gotten there yet. My pain is the cause for all my actions. I keep expecting that something I do will stop this unbelievable pain I am experiencing. Yea, I bring most of it on myself by the way I have handled this, but like I said, I'm always looking for a short term, quick fix, to stop my pain, instead of putting my plan in place and allowing it to take its course.

Also, I can tell you that if I go dark, she may call, she may stop by, but I don't think for a minute that it will bring her back. Yea, what I am doing now sure as ****** is not going to bring her back, but I truly believe she is done with me and is unwilling to give us another chance. She would rather wash her hands of this and move on tot he next victim.

VS

Vince:

um...

...are you out of your mucking find????


And yet you do the opposite.


No, you are. We've been through this before, exactly like the sitch you find yourself in right smack dab now. We know exactly what the major point is...


Right, and she's exactly the 34958724958th WS 2 say that since Thursday, and in exactly that way.


No Vince. We don't believe it's fog talk at all. We KNOW it's fog talk. You need 2 realize it 2. You also need 2 understand that there is a such thing as BS fog, and you're smack in the middle of it right now.


Maybe, but I don't think so. Not at first anyway. Look. You've been repeatedly told that your si2ation is delicate right now, and very much ripe for some real, focused professional help.

I hope you've made that call. There's no reason you couldn't have left a message any time of day or night since she moved out. But there's no time like the present.

Stop posting and start dialing.

-ol' 2long

There are two ways you can go: you can decide to try and save your M or you can decide not to.

Both choices are ethical.

Neither choice will stop your suffering.

Either choice can end with you divorced.

Now choose, GDit! You don't know what to do because you haven't chosen.

By the way, in case you aren't sure... your WW doesn't care how much you hurt and nothing you do or say will make her care.

Vince,

We've all heard it before. My H said the same things, and much, much worse. He was just as adamant. Not anymore. That's what everyone here is trying to tell you. It really doesn't matter what she says right now. What matters is what YOU do.

If you want your wife back, give her something to be attracted to. Everytime you have a "need" to call her and harass her with issues, or play games with answering the phone or not, or whatever you "need" to do ... ask yourself first -- is this going to be attractive to her? If the answer is no, then DO SOMETHING ELSE! Go to the gym, hit a punching bag, call ANYONE else to vent, take the dog for a walk, practice the guitar, learn how to fly an airplane, learn a new sport, learn to knit, ANYTHING other than calling her. She'll be shocked that you have a life, and a fun one, apart from her.

She may even decide she wants to be a part of that life. And if not, well, at least you've gotten a life and you aren't sitting around torturing yourself over her decisions. You're bringing much of your pain on yourself. Stop doing that.

-AmI.

I don't see how you can't see that she doesn't want to lose you. Afterall, she still engages in conversation with you until you blow it about talking about YOUR needs. Enough with your needs already. They aren't going to be met for AT LEAST six months to two years. DEAL WITH IT.

Here is how I know that she still doesn't want to lose you:
1) She still talks to you, if she really was done, she would just ignore you.
2) Who did she call when she found out OM's GF was over on Wed. night? You. Why did she call you? Because she wanted to KNOW that YOU are still there waiting for her.
3) What do you think her text was about on Sunday morning? If you read between the lines it said I don't want to lose you, but I'm not ready to jump back in right now. Please take it slowly.
4) Women RARELY leave men without another one waiting in the wings. Her OM has moved on and she doesn't want to be left with no one. People who commit adultery are usually afraid of abandonment, so when things start going wrong in their M, they try and find someone BEFORE they get a D, so they aren't alone. She is afraid to be alone. When she starts fearing that you might leave her and she realizes that OM is nowhere to be found, she'll start engaging you again.

Do you not think that all of us who are giving you advice, that all our WWs didn't say the EXACT SAME THING or act the EXACT SAME WAY along the line? Are you naive or just dense? Why don't you go back and read our stories? There is a link to mine at the bottom of my signature.

I, like you, though we were done, and I was about to file for D to protect myself financially so that my WW wouldn't use my resources to further enable her A. Guess what? She immediately ended it. She knew that without my financial support, she couldn't continue her long distance A, so she stuck with me, so she had at least SOMEONE and wasn't alone. Currently, things are better than she could have ever imagined when she made that decision, even though we aren't out of the woods yet.

You are in your own fog, and need to snap out of it. We suggest counseling with the Harley's because it is easier for a professional to convince you exactly what we are telling you. SH wouldn't tell you to get a divorce. He would tell you if you want to save your M, it most likely can be done, and here is how, and he would give you a plan specific to your individual circumstances. You act like you are the only one who is been through this or that your situation is different. Guess what, IT ISN'T!!!

I'm a reader here...but I have to log on and say...

Please, please, please stop taking all of the crumbs she offers you. It will make you look needy and unattractive in her eyes.

Go on with life. Get up, get out and DO STUFF. If she calls and you're inclined to talk, then talk. If you're busy, tell her you're busy. Just don't BE THERE every time she wiggles her fingers.

You will become far more attractive to her if you are independent and busy.

Many of us have been exactly where you are. We're trying to save you from the pain and embarrassment some of us feel when looking back at our own behavior.

I look back in shame. Why? Because I literally got on my knees and begged. Because whenever she said the D word I would get on my knees and put my arms around her legs and would beg her not to say such things.

Did I obsess like you? Absolutely!

I spent weeks trying to get the images of her and this other man out of my head. It only happend one time, but I couldn't stop thinking about it. The image consumed me. I wanted to know everything. Were they completely naked? Who started it? Did she resist? How long dit it last? How did they kiss? How did it stop? Why did she do to him what she did after it stopped? Were they on the couch or on the floor? What was going through her head? Did she feel guilty about it at all? How could she do this? Didn't the "Air Force Wife: Toughest Job in the World" sticker on the back of the car remind her of what she was doing? How could she leave the kids with the nanny to go do these things?

I tore my house up looking for more details and clues of her infidelity. I found a Valentine's Day card she wrote to another man. I found flirtatious messages written to other guys. I found a list of men she wanted to get to know or get contact info for from myspace. I found pictures she took of herself half naked for who knows what purpose. I was consumed by this. It's normal behavior after what i found out, but it wasn't constructive and I was only hurting myself by doing these things and it only served to anger her.

I actually got all the information from the guys she was with, not from her. Most didn't know she hadn't actually filed for divorce but was merely thinking about it. None of the guys I spoke to knew that she wasn't actually divorced or had filed the papers.

I was consumed and wanted to know the details of every date and thing she did.

I also humiliated myself as you are doing now. I was lost and had no guidance from anyone on how I should behave.

You have that guidance. You have us screaming at you on what you should do!

Will she come back? None of us can tell you she will, but the odds are she will if you show her a man she can respect and be attracted to.

Believe me, this will pass and your pain and shock will turn into anger. That can be a very destructive phaze and I did my share of saying hurtful things to my ex. I vented in very damaging ways to her.

How would she feel about me if I hadn't shown that side to her? Would she come back? What if I had remained controlled and composed when I interacted with her? What if I had stood up and been a man instead of being weak and pathetic?

I'm willing to bet she may have thought twice if I hadn't done a lot of what I did over the past year. Almost every single interaction she's had with me since our D has been negative, so why would she possibly want to come back?

Where would we be if I had simply behaved with dignity?

I've never given her the opportunity to feel remorse because I've spent so much time getting her to hate me by being angry and bitter.

But you know what, I've changed in the last few weeks. I want to have a moment where she second guesses what she did. How am I going to do this?

By living! By not talking about someday getting back in shape but by doing it! By being the best father I can be! By not being angry with her anymore or arguing or yelling or bringing up the past.

One day, she may look at me and say, "Wow, he's got his stuff together, is in shape, and is a great dad to the kids. Did I make a mistake?" But it isn't going to happen by me sitting around giving her excuses to hate me. It requires action. And in the end, if she never looks at me that way and doesn't say that, then I have my stuff together for someone else to come into my life. Either way I win. But I won't win if I just sit around making excuses, getting fatter and being nasty with her.

Now you do it!

It's very hard to do. We're giving you the answers you need because you're at a point where you could save your marriage if you really want to, but doing so requires you to swallow some very painful medicine.

This medicine is horrible to swallow, but it requires that you stop talking to the woman you swore to love till the day you died. It requires for you to grieve the death of your marriage.

You have to let go and not let her treat you like a doormat or make yourself so readily available to be one.

I'm saying to you to not make the same mistakes I did. If she was so dead set on divorce, then why hasn't she filed?

Call her bluff. Go talk to an attorney and get a draft divorce settlement. You'll blow her mind if she sees a cold, calm, cool man that is suddenly very business like and you're telling her that you want to start living and that being tied to her is keeping you from doing so.

She's keeping you on a leash till something better comes along. For now she'll call you when she feels like moaning about her lost man, but otherwise wants nothing to do with you. Quit being there for her and she will miss you. I swear that you will look back in shame at the conversations where you are basically saying, "Oh, please, honey, tell me all about how you hurt over having lost this other man? Please know I'm here for you if you want to cry over him and about him. I'm happy to listen to you complain about how he lied to you."

I know you state that you've said differently, but that is exactly what you're saying when you call to see how she's doing and if she's ok or by listening to her at all over how she feels over losing the other man.

Please, for your own self respect, don't repeat what some of here have done and take it as solid advice from people who have walked in your shoes.

I'm also telling you this because this will pass and anger WILL set in. You will look at all the things you are doing now and see how pitiful you were and you will over compensate by going in a completely different direction.

If she suddenly came back tomorrow and begged you for forgiveness you would likely be happy, but once this wore off and things calmed down you will have anger and resnetment creep in. This is why going dark in Plan B is so important. It lets you preserve the feelings you have for her if she does come back, and it lets you start healing and moving on in case she doesn't.

I didn't save my marriage because I didn't listen to people on this board and I made many mistakes in dealing with the situation. I didn't have anyone to properly guide me through the minefield and who could grab me and tell me not to do certain things.

I thought my situation was unique. I thought my wife was different and we would eventually be back together. That might have been if I had taken the lead instead of enabling her.

She may have ended up leaving regardless, but I would at least have done it without losing my self respect and without losing my children and signing away everything.

Please listen to us. We are telling you what we're telling you because we've been there and don't want you to look back in shame.

When you want to call her, call a friend instead. Tell them how you want to call her and then have them be the drill sergeant you need. I did this by getting in contact with one of my ex girlfriends who has become one of my best friends.

Heck, call me if you want. I'll go Lee Ermy on you if that will help.

Seriously, please find a way to coach yourself and keep yourself from calling her.

Just want to add that you should find a Divorce Care group in your area. They are a great source of support, even if you're not religious.

So, are we all suggesting a Plan B here? Or suggesting a Plan A of confident, call occasionally, answer occasionally, and get on with my life type plan?

I'm sorta confused now. Should I be in her life at all, or be completely dark? Or, should I be strong, confident, not needy, attractive and show her that she can love me again. I'm almost certain that a Plan B will end in divorce. i think a plan where she sees that she can have a great life with my and needs to fall back in love with me is the correct path. I think we have, together, pretty much ruined any remaining love she has for me, but I could be wrong. I am going to print out this thread and read it tonight with a highlighter, and highlight what advice I have been given. I am going to cross out the negative and kicking me while I'm down, and put this all together and see what i need to do.

There is a small chance she may call after work for me to come over. I do want tog o over there, but should I? I don't want to play games and my "should I call her back and should I go over there" is game playing. Its my way of trying to show her that I am not needy and going to be there all the time. Its not game playing. i thought I was doing what everyone was suggesting, but then it gets called game playing. Sure, by me trying to not call and deciding not to answer the phone and not going over there and then following it up with crying, begging, pleading and multiple calls is obviously counter productive, but those 'games' were actually tries by me to implement the "i am not always going to be there and waiting by the phone for your every request" plan.

VS

vince:

Do what you want. Stop trying 2 figure out what she wants. She's worse than you right now, and so she doesn't have a clue what she really wants.

If you're going 2 highlight anything from this thread, highlight this:

"CALL SH RIGHT NOW!!"

-ol' 2long

Yes, this is what you need to do.


All you need to do now is actually follow through with that plan.


You are wrong, and you need to snap out of your own woe is me BS fog if you are going to save your M.


Here is what you do. If she calls and wants you over, go over, and make it fun and light. If she doesn't call you back, don't call her asking her, "I though we were going to do something," just go and do something yourself. If she calls and you are already doing something, don't drop your plans for her, but suggest that you try it some other time. Don't be needy, just project a quiet, strong confidence, and she will come back to you. 80% of adulterers go back with their mate. You are better off than most. Your OM showed his true colors quickly and ended it with your WW.

I recommend talking with SH as he will have tricks and specific talking points to use with your WW that might speed up things more quickly. He will also give you techniques at how to handle your triggers and what to do when your WW blows you off.

Vince,

FDR is famous for saying, "...let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance."

That quote is true for your situation. Once you stop fearing losing your WW, you will be able to properly analyze and react to the situation to win her back.

Fear is my biggest enemy right now. And frankly, its ridiculous. I'm 30 years old, make 6 figures, have a nice house, car, and a good guy, good looking and am just completely hamstrung by this situation. i thought I was strong, confident, nothing can phase me type person until this happened. I need to realize that I have my whole life ahead of me and can not let my life be dictated by this horrible person (right now anyway). I just keep thinking of what we had (which I know is gone and wont come back), her with this OM and the FEAR of my next phase in life, even though I know it can not be that bad and millions of people would die to be in my shoes.m I get all that. When you are in the situation though, like me, it is hard to look at it abstractly like all of you.

I really appreciate everyone's time and advice. SH is going to be called as soon as I get off this conference call.

Thanks for your continued support -
VS

VS,


Yes, you do. You are lying to yourself, and that is what has all of us so frustrated with you. The woman gave you a path back and you won't listen. LEAVE HER ALONE UNTIL SHE GETS THROUGH WITHDRAWAL IF SHE EVER DOES. You have lost her , and you don't seem to understand this. You can win this but you have to be a lot smarter than you have acted so far.


No, you don't! You are lying to yourself again. You do not tell her this and then follow it up with appropriate actions. You are following her around harrassing her, and NOT listening to her. NO means NO and you are hearing NO and acting as if it is YES.

Wake up. I recommend you divorce this woman because frankly you are not showing you are focussed on HER recovery, just yours.

Please listen to what people are telling you, and quit lying to yourself.

God Bless,

JL

A plan b is intended to end an affair and have the other person come back or to allow the BS to move on if the WW doesn't come back.

She is showing signs that she would come back if he gave her a reason to. He's not giving her a reason to.

Unfortunately, VS, it is very much a game right now. Fake it till you make it.

So she is supposed to call you tonight to possibly do something. Well, what if she doesn't?

Are you going to sit around all night waiting? Don't you see that you are letting her control you if you do this? Can't you see that this is very unattractive because you are at her beck and call?

Tell me, what kind of impact would it have on her if she calls and you were out? It shows her that you aren't going to be sitting around forever waiting for her.

I recommend cutting off contact with her for you, not her. You need to emotionally separate yourself so you can think clearly. Did you read my previous post?

Right now things are so raw for you that you will likely say all the wrong things.

You say that you are very afraid that you'll lose her if you stop contacting her.

So what? You have a good job, you're young, allegedly attractive. Obviously you have something to offer someone.

Your wife has rejected what you offer and doesn't care how you feel. If she cared she wouldn't have done anything and would be empathetic to what you feel.

Don't punish yourself about being weak. I flew multi-million dollar airplanes for the Air Force. I flew into Iraq, through thunderstorms, and have had a fair share of close calls. Those were stressful things that I handled because it was my job. Yet nothing has brought me down further and destroyed me more than my ex w's infidelity, followed by the loss of my family. Nothing can ever compare to that pain. There were two pilots at my base that had very similar things happen to them. They came home from deployment to discover their wives left them when they were gone.

You know what these men did? These same men who thought nothing of flying a 50 year old plane full to the gills with explosive fuel into a combat zone full of people that wanted nothing more than to kill them, with Iran next door tracking their every move and with the ability to shoot them down on a whim? You know what these brave men did? One attempted suicide and was found hangin in his bathroom with his wrists cut and near death and the other successfully killed himself.

I got to a point where I was so low I checked myself into a hosptital for six days.

None of this is easy. This situation is enough to bring most men to their knees so don't punish yourself for behaving in ways you normally wouldn't.

But trust us when we tell you that you are doing all the wrong things by constantly being there for you. You are her safety net until she finds something better.

You aren't giving her the space she needs for her to step back and see what she is doing to you and her life.

She cheated on you, had a PA and YOU are worried about losing her? You are worried about upsetting her? How much worse can it be than her telling you she doesn't want you and screwing another man and telling you you are annoying?

Be strong and show her a man she can be attracted to. You do this by not constantly being there for her. You do this by taking care of YOU and your needs, not hers.

Have you cut her off financially?

Seriously, nothing will impact her more than taking steps towards D and showing her an aloof, cool man. Taking that step says to her, "ok, lets go down this road. Sh*t or get off the pot, but I respect myself enough to not live in a state of limbo and be your counselor for when you want to cry about your other man. I want to live."

You have no kids and you have a good job. Count your blessings and start living. Do it for you.

This is going to hurt and it's going to hurt for a long time but I promise you that you will start healing sooner rather than later if you stop talking to her. You have no kids with her so you have absolutely no need to speak with her in any way shape or form.

Look, I dumped my ex w when we were dating. I was apart from her for 4 months. I went out, had fun, did my thing, and then thought I had made a huge mistake after dating for a little while. We did have a connection and I need to be away from her to see it. She had moved one when I came back around but I won her back.

Granted, in hind sight it may not have been the right decision, but I simply use it to illustrate my point that distance and time will give you and her the perspective you need to really make a smart decision.

No contact will give you the space YOU need to heal and see things for what they are. Do you want to take back a woman that cheated on you and turned her back on her vows? Only you can answer this question, but you can't answer it if you're so close to the situation that you can't think clearly and see.

My ex has to miss what we had, but she has to have other experiences to make her appreciate what we had. I have to have other experiences to see if what we had was really as good as I feel it was. I'm still in the healing process and still have good memories of our marriage, but time may teach me otherwise and I have to give myself the chance with others by living.

Look, WWs are very confused creatures. My ex was furious when she found out that I had a friend coming to visit me after our divorce. She got angry that "I could replace us so quickly!" This was after our divorce! I had every right to see whoever I wanted and spend the weekend with them, but she got angry about this! See how confused they can be? She divorces me but gets angry when I see a friend of the opposite sex. Why? Does it make sense to you?

I was so weak and pathetic at the time that I caved to her demands and called off my plans.

Your W wants you to hang in there for her and be there waiting while she's off experimenting with being single again. She wants you to wait in the wings as a fallback. Is she consciously doing this? Probably not.

So what is going to make her want you more? Moving on. Carrying on with your life. Showing her the man she knew when you guys were single.

Tell me, how would she be if you had constantly called her and begged when you first started dating? She wouldn't have wanted you and you would have creeped her out. Same rules apply now.

Just try not calling her, texting or communicating in any way. She'll start getting curious as to why you're not hanging on anymore. This may be her wakeup call. Seeing you really moving on will be her wakeup call.

Fake it till you make it. Make plans, go out, start living. Those are things that women find attractive, not fawning and begging and pleading.

Go rent the movie Swingers tonight. You are that guy. I was that guy.

See what happens when he finally moved on.

That's where you need to go and work towards.

Yes and yes ... but be real about it. It's ok to answer if you're there. It's more ok to not answer because you're too busy out making friends, learning to waterski or sky dive or rappel down mountains or cook gourmet french cuisine or lay new tile in the remodeled master bathroom.


Can you imagine what she'd think if she called you to come over and instead of a desperate puppy forcing itself under her hand to get her attention, she hears "I'd love to, but I have (softball / poker / book club / photography lessons / dance class) tonight. Want to come watch?" (Or, if it's not a "watchable" thing) "Maybe I can drop by for a few minutes afterwards, if I don't end up going out for a beer with the guys. You could probably come with us if you want."

And then go do whatever you were going to do anyway, regardless of whether or not she wants to come. You'll have fun either way, whether she's there or not.


It's playing games when you text her, offering to talk, and then don't answer the phone when she calls. It's not playing games when you have your own life, have other things to do besides wait around on her phone call.


In practical terms ... your first step is to figure out what YOU want in YOUR life. What you would do if she wasn't a consideration (within your ethical code, of course -- stay away from other women!). What have you always wanted to do? Name some things that have always sounded like fun, but you've never done. Changes you've always wanted to make but just haven't gotten around to. Sign up for some classes. Meet some people. Get back in touch with old friends. Invite people over for a dinner party (or cigar tasting or basketball game). Start doing some things that are for you, about you. Invite her when you want to. Do it anyway, whether she accepts the invitation or not.

And every time you want to call, txt or stalk her ... ask yourself if you would be attracted to someone who did whatever you are about to do. If you can't decide, then run it by people here, first. If it's not going to be helpful, then don't do it!

-AmI.

Vince,

As everyone has been telling you already, it is time for you to decide what it is that you want to happen, then act accordingly.

If you want to recover your marriage, everything you do for about the next 6 months to a year must be toward that end. If you want to call it quits and get on with your life without her, then just do it and get on with it.

In order to save your marriage you can NOT:
1) Beg, whine, plead or cry in order to gain sympathy from your W.
2) Expect any of your needs to get met by her for the foreseeable future.
3) Spend every moment of every conversation you have with your wife attempting to get her to beg your forgiveness and say she is sorry (NOT GONNA HAPPEN).
4) Attempt to "get through to her" by using logic, emotional blackmail or mental gymnastics to break through the fog and get her to fall at your feet weeping. (This won't happen either)
5) Expect her to commit to working on the marriage and agree to counseling based on anything you can SAY (It will be how you act that might break through)
6) Expect this to go away quickly or be all an awful nightmare that you'll wake up from in the morning and all will be right. (Trust me; you are going to be dealing with this for a long time.)
7) React to everything you WW says or does that you think is unique to your sitch. (It is likely from the WS script, which is why you need a plan)

It serves no purpose to argue, debate or discuss anything logically with a WS. They do not follow the reasoning, can't make up their minds and at the time they are in an A have no idea how they got there.

If you haven't talked to Steve Harley yet, I suggest that you do so. You need to have a specific plan that you can follow so you will stop jumping at every little thing that she says or does and begin to get yourself and your life under control. Until you learn to deal with the pain and hurt of rejection and betrayal, you can't hope to win her back.

It isn't fair, I know, but to win this war, you must be willing to sacrifice. You must sacrifice your anger, your wants, desires and needs. You must give up the need to be right or even to be recognized and show your wife how great it can be if she stays in the marriage. You can't tell her, you must show her. You must continue to show her until she understands or until you are burning out at which time you must learn to disconnect from her.

You have no control over how she acts or reacts. You can only control yourself. Until you know what to do, not based on what she is doing but based on what has been shown to work time after time, you are floating about like a cork in the ocean.

The key is to do the right things, not say the right things. You must learn what to do next, not in reaction to what she throws your way, but as a step of a game plan that you can execute in sequence despite what she does or says.

mustangdriver,

FWIW, Plan B is not designed to end an affair. It might help to do so, but that is not it's purpose. The reason for Plan B is to preserve the sanity and any remaining love of the betrayed spouse in regard to the WS. It allows for the BS to disconnect from the day to day pain and disrespect associated with having a court-side seat at the WS's ongoing A. Seldom does Plan A by itself end an A, and Plan B only gives the BS back their dignity until the A ends of its own shortcomings and failures. At that time a decision to reconcile or D must still be made.

Plan A is about meeting ENs and being the best S you can be to show the WS what life with you could be like if they end the A. Plan B let's the A burn itself out without the BS having to deal with it constantly. To continue Plan A for very long tends to kill any love the BS has left for the WS and if and when the A does end, there is nothing left to give to recovery.

Vince,

Think of Plan A as a first date. You want to impress her, not beg, plead or pressure her into a lifelong commitment. If you had done that on your first date, you'd never have married in the first place. Plan A is about changing those things in yourself that you need to change, whether WW comes home to you or not. It is about being the best Vince you can be and becoming, not strong headed, but emotionally and spiritually stronger than you knew you had in you. It is about working on what you can do something about while not expending energy on what you have no control over. It is hoping and planning for the best while preparing for the worst. It is about protecting yourself and your family while being a lighthouse to guide the WS home, if and when she decides to point in that direction. Notice I said lighthouse, not a tugboat. You can't push, pull, coerce, pressure or force your W to come home.

The last 90 days have been bad, the next 90 might be worse, but you have to decide if you are going to continue trying. Just be sure you know what you are up against and know what to do so you don't keep doing the opposite every time you make an effort. Wasted effort is worse than no effort at all. It drives her away and burns you out. Nothing gets accomplished and it becomes chasing the wind....

If you have had enough and can't do it anymore, simply admit it to yourself and build a Plan B fortress against the WS attacks and wait. Distance yourself from her, avoid her and just don't deal with her. But be sure you do it in a planned way and not just blow things off. She must know up front the conditions for returning to you and you must be clear and precise about what those requirements are. You cannot change your mind later, so you have to know that the hill you pick is the one you will live or die on.

If you do everything just right, she might still want to divorce and move on. Even that does not need to be the end, since it is not uncommon for a WS to want to return even two years after a divorce is final. But you need to take control of yourself and what you can control and stop trying to "make" her do anything.

Only you can choose what more you are willing to put into it. If you want to keep fighting, call SH and get a real Plan. If you are ready to move on, act accordingly. If you aren't sure, ask for opinions, but reacting and jumping through every hoop that WW holds up is not going to work in the long run and can only cause injury to you and any love for her you have left.

Mark

She called me yesterday afternoon and canceled our plans, as she had work to do that night from her two days off last week. I said thats fine and made no big deal out of it. She was in a much different mood, much happier when she called. I asked her what was going on and she said the OM quit at her job and she was very happy about this. That she doesn't have to see his face anymore. So I guess this is a good thing for me. Should be easier for her to have NC.

I didn't make a big deal about plans, she asked of course, as usual, if I could do tomorrow (tonight) as she always does. I said I was busy and couldn't but maybe later in the week?. She said "well, why don't we plan something for the weekend?" I was like "um, I've been trying to make plans with you for 12 weeks on the weekend and you have blown me off everytime, why would this be any different.??" She said "well, we can make actual plans." So I said "that sounds good and we will talk more this week". She said ok, I'll call you tonight (Monday).

She called around 11pm like she said she would (kinda surprising), but I was watching a movie and didn't answer. I called her this morning to ask her if she remembered it was our Dog's one year birthday today and if she got him anything, and if I could stop by later and drop something off. She was in her same old pissy mood, so asked whats wrong?. She said her stomach hurts. I pressed a little more and she said she stopped taking her pill. I pressed a little more, she said she stopped taking it because she thought she might be pregnant with OM's baby. She said she took a test and that she is not preganat. Wouldn't that have been a nice twist?

So just a frickin great start to the day. The statement "ignorance is bliss" couldn't be More true right now. I guess I shouldn't of pressed. But I just can't believe what has come of her life. Its like a Jerry Springer episode. Its sick, sad, pathetic and disgusting. Why would I want to be with someone that I think of like that? I don't know. I just don't know.

Anyway, so I will be going over there tonight and asked if I could bring her dinner. She said "Lets go out". I said "why dont we eat ion since its Kobi's (dog) birthday?" m She said "See, same old Vince". I'm like how does that make me the same old person cause I think e should hangout with the pup? Anyway, I saw the convo was starting to head in a worse direction and cut it off. Told her to call me later and let me know what she wants to do for dinner.

Just can't believe the stuff about maybe being pregnant and what not..I think thats why she was in such a weird mood the previous 5 days. She thought maybe she was pregnant. So, now she is not taking anything and I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not, or if it even matters. Book me for the Springer shop please!

VS