your wife sounds quite reasonable. She does not wish to do anything that hurts you.....she doesn't want to control you, like IAgree seems to think.

and you are lucky, sounds like she doesn't enjoy dancing as much as she does the "social" atmosphere....you don't have to worry about learning how to dance..... she just wants to some recreational time w/ you.

Good Luck.

Are you SLIM??
If so, your experience w/ women is not normal...not all women want to control and manipulate.
I didn't! I just wanted to have soem fun w/ my own Husband.
sounds like this wife does too.

talk about awful advice!.....step back....If you are Slim,you were never even married....you shouldn't be accusing this guys wife of wanting to manipulate him, go out wiithout him and flirt w/ other guys! JEEZ!

guyguy.....keep in mind that peopele tend to react to thier own life situations when they give advice...sounds like IAgree, whoever he is, has had some bad experinece....that does not mean that your wife is anythign like the women he describes.
Infact, she sounds quite devoted to you.

guyguy,

I think that putting some good boundaries around potentially risky activities (and yes, sometimes dancing with others can be risky) is a good idea. Prevention really is worth a pound of cure.

So first....there are some redflags in this situation. Your wife "omitted" (lie of omission) that she had a regular dancing partner. She didn't tell you until you were likely to discover it on your own. She's showing more care for his feelings (didn't want him to be alone) than she is for your feelings. Keeping information from you that would make you uncomfortable is not "privacy" it's "secrecy" and secrecy ruins marriages. He was texting your wife outside of your knowledge and in an inappropriate way, so whether your wife is trustworthy or not....it opens the door for him to think of her as "available" in ways that she shouldn't be.

I respect the fact that you don't want to be the "dance police" or overeact, but it's silly to ignore the danger signs in this situation. I understand that dancing is not your thing....but your wife has decided to use her love of dancing to act selfishly and independently in a way that shows a lack of care for your feelings. It's not enough that you care about her feelings.....she must also care about yours and be willing to pursue her love of dancing in a way that healthy for her marriage.

My husband and I have some reasonable <for us> boundaries surrounding dancing with others. I'm okay with him dancing with alternative partners within these boundaries.

1) Don't dance with strangers or people your spouse doesn't know. It's okay to dance with people in our own circle of friends....but they have to care about BOTH of us, and have loyalty to both us. They have to be our friends....but also friends of our marriage.

2) We don't dance with the same friend more than twice in one night.

3) Sexy dancing or slow dancing that involves rubbing body parts is reserved only for each other.

4) If a dancing partner doesn't respect those boundaries (keeps asking beyond a couple of times, cuts in repeatedly, dances dirty, flirts etc.) then that person becomes unwelcome and off limits as a dance partner.

5) Dancing with others is for when we go out together....not when either of us is out alone.

I think taking dance lessons is a great idea!! Please do that, but it won't absolve your wife of the responsibility of being open, honest and protective of your marriage. If she really loves dancing, it's in both of your best interests for the two of you to do that activity together. Do NOT question your own judgement about this guy....he sounds like an opportunist.

Yes, you would also benefit from finding some new activities that you both like....but don't neglect to address the activities you already both like....because the activities that are most enjoyable to us, are the ones we should do with our spouses. It's one of the things that helps safeguard marriages from affairs.

This doesn't have to become some big horrible drama either. As long as you approach this in a loving way.....and POJA around dancing (or one of your activities) can be a positive and empowering thing. The idea is for BOTH of you to walk away with a good deal that creates trust....not destroys trust.

I agree that your wife sounds devoted, but I also agree that in this situation....she sounds secretive, manipulative and flirtatious. At the very least, she sounds like she's putting your marriage in a vulnerable position with fuzzy boundaries and a willingness to keep information from you that might cause conflict.

For your part, you have to examine the reasons that your wife feels the need to omit information. Make it as safe as possible for her to be honest....or you will feed dishonesty. Be clear about what you're comfortable with and what you aren't. Trust your own instincts....they're usually right.

Your radar should rightfully be up....mine would be.

OMG... good grief. Dancing is always sexual? Spare me!

I've been dancing ever since going to my first junior high dance in 7th grade, age 12 (where my mom was a chaperone, BTW). All we kids did was get on the gym floor and move around a lot. Yes, it was generally one girl to one boy, but trust me, there was very little sexual stuff going on (the ground rules made sure of that).

At my age, my H and I don't go clubbing a whole lot but occasionally we find ourselves at a place where there is dancing. I tend to want to get out on the floor sooner than my H, and he has NO problem with me cutting it up with other girls or guys (if they want to join in). Usually the girls outnumber the guys 3-1 at least. Eventually he'll get out there too. Or not.

I dance because otherwise I would be bored silly at the clubs. The music's too loud to hold a meaningful conversation and I like the exercise.

But really, the idea that any female who goes out on the dance floor with a guy other than her H is headed for an A or trying to manipulate is ludicrous. Most of just want to burn up some energy.

But the whole issue begs a question I ask often: How do two people with such totally opposite interests (cars v. dancing; hates meeting new people v. likes meeting new people) get together in the first place? What on earth did they do while dating? Why didn't this come up before the M?

I also agree with the idea of moving outside one's own comfort zone. It really is a growth experience and who knows, you might find a new pastime that you'll enjoy.

GBH,

Do you go out dancing without your husband and dance with the same guy all the time? Does he text you messages asking where you are? Do you keep relationships secret from your husband? There are some substantial differences between what you're describing and what this poster is describing.

Of course it's okay to dance with other guys and it DOESN'T have to be sexual....but there are certainly some ground rules that protect marriages in that situation....don't you think?

Starfish,

Talk about cut to the chase...

I'm expressed, as usual.

guyguy,

This is the advice you need to heed!

Mark

I agree 100% w/ groud rules. I wish they were REQUIRED for marriages...often we don't realize how important they are 'till soemthing like this comes up.

When i read guyguys post i don't see a manipulitive, selfish controlling wife........I don't even see the red flags that star*fish points out, (potentially,yes)
i see a young married girl who could use some fun in her life and would enjoy spemding more time w/ her H......guyguy neve rsaid he wasn't INVITED to go the clubs...just that he doesn't like them.

I see a young couple who need to spend some quality time together.
She did not dismiss his concerns or get defensive when he told her he was upset...... she seemed very willing to work out an alternative plan.

nia,

I agree that her reaction was a healthy one....but the redflags surrounding ommission and secrecy are still there. That doesn't mean she's already done something wrong, but she definitely created a far riskier situation by dancing regularly with this guy, keeping that information from her husband....as well as the VERY telling statement "I don't want you to freak out but....." That's an incredibly disrespectful justification for secrecy and it's manipulative because it blames her husband for her poor judgement.

Again, I'm not saying she's cheated or that she's a bad wife....I'm saying that she's exhibiting poor and risky boundaries and those need to be addressed.

But I think we're basically agreeing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

So now instead of her building a resentment, you are. Neither is healthy for your marrage. So you can POJA something else. "DW, I don't really feel comfortable with you going out to dance with your Mom/sister. That is something that single people do or couples do together. Is there another activity you can do with your Mom/Sister?" or "Can you teach me to dance so I can go with you?"

I agree with others that too much secrecy makes one suspect that the real reason to go is not to spend time with the mom/sister. f

I think you are doing the right thing in going to the party. It seems like you are an introvert and don't really want to be around so many people. Is your wife an extravert? That is, does she seems to be energized around others? If so, you two need to agree on some introvert type activities and some extravert type activities. But if your wife is going to spend time with mom/sister, it should be in a more marriage friendly environment.

the red flags around ommision and secrecy.....yes, i see them....it's funny how those flags are not quite as bright when they are not the ones that trigger me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I remember being a young girl married to a guy who didn't want to go to dance clubs but said eh had no problem w/ me going . <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

it was never my prefernece to go out w/o him....i really TRULY would have loved to spend more time w/ HIM.....not my gf's, not other guys.

The answer to your questions: no, no, and no. I was responding to the post from I_mDefeated:


My point was that not all dancing is sexual in nature. Furthermore, as nia pointed out, I don't see a whole lot of secrecy here. The guy's wife invites him to go out with her. She also invites him to other functions she is attending to see family and friends. He says he is not comfortable in such settings, but worse, it appears he doesn't even want to TRY to become comfortable with them.

I'm a natural introvert, and so is my H, so both of us are a wee bit outside our respective comfort zones from time to time. But that doesn't keep either one of us from attending one another's work or family functions. I know my nephew's W is quite shy, but she attends our family functions and I think she has gradually become more comfortable with us.

Being in a relationship tends to work more smoothly when you have things in common, but most everyone has pre-M friends and interests that they may want to give up, so as the partner, why not at least TRY them?

Dancing, especially in a club setting, doesn't require a whole lot of skill. I never took lessons, and I don't know (nor do I care) if people consider me to be good at it. At least I don't THINK I'm making a total fool of myself out thre! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

My preference is dancing with myself.
in front of a mirror. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I'm one the husbands who LIKES to dance. When I met my wife (early 20s) she was definitely into the club scene- 3 to 4 night a week. If we were going to be a couple I had to learn. One of our first arguments as a couple was about whether she should let guys buy her drinks when she was out with her girls. She thought it was a free drink- I thought it sent a bad message about interest and availability.

R&B/hip hop dancing IS sexual there's no way around it. The music is rythmic, the lyrics are usually somewhat (or extremely) explicit. Clubs ARE meat markets. This isn't line dancing he's talking about.


Lots of guys dont like dancing because they dont know how to dance and it makes them incredibly self concious. If thats the case take the lessons. You may find you love it and its an amazing date night- lots of physical intimacy. if its not due to self conciousness I'd talk to your wife about why you feel the way you do.

I used to dance with my wife's friends at her request- their husbands didn't dance. I quit because I could see the looks from their husbands. Its hard to be friendly with someone who can move with your wife in a way you can't. I didn't need that cheap ego thrill; it wasn't worth it.

I don't blame you for being uncomfortable. The omission of the little fact of a regular dance partner would bother the ****** out of me.

Can't... or won't? What gets me is when people don't even try.

Here's what I consider harmless dancing -- a bunch of us at a wedding, the girls wanting to get out on the dance floor, and most of the guys refusing (just like when the groom tosses the garter). We'd just go out, and if one or two guys wanted to join us, more power to them. Then we'd all do the Y M C A !!

I guess I'm too old to have seen/experienced the R&B hip-hop dance thing. I'm just into old time rock and roll. Give me Bob Segar any day!

Okay, I'm dating myself big time.

Again, the original poster can only control himself, not what his W does. I see no harm in him trying something a little outside his comfort zone. He might actually find he enjoys it. Personally, I don't see a life spent with his cars to be as fulfilling as one with his W.

OK, we talked some more and I found out that she saw this "dancing partner" at the club a week before and that he got her phone munber from the class listing at her school which is given out to everyone. He sent her a message because it was the Thursday night hip hop at that club they met at the week before. She did not know he was going to be their and as soon as she found out she told me.

So perhaps the first time they met up their it was to be a friend but she did not tell him to meet her again. He did pursue things by texting her and this is something that we need to discuss because he is probably interested beyond what he should. I have told my W that I trust her just not the men.

I have set a counseling session for the 2nd and this can be resolved between us. She is eventually going to go to the club without me and I am going to have to be strong enough to believe that she only loves me. She has said "remember, I married you".

I have thought about going dancing with her ever time, but I dont think I should force myself to spend all my time doing something I dont enjoy. Then I would lose contact with all my friends. When i do go with her occasionally I fear that I will find a situation that brings doubt and fear into my thoughts about the situation. You see, this trust also pushes the limits of my insecurities because of the trust I have to put into her commitment to me.

One other thing, her single sister that she goes with is younger and more attractive so she actually gets most of the attention from the guys. My wife ends up talking to them about her because they are interested in the sister. I have seen text messages from this guy you talks about trying to get attention from her sister. And my wife does not act flirty, it is not her nature, she is actually less effecntionate than me.

guy,

If I were you I'd tag along at least a time or two. If you are uncomfortable with what you see, you need to tell her so and why. How much more uncomfortable would you be worrying about what is going on?

I might rescind the above if she ceases ALL contact with her dancing partner, never takes his calls, never talks to him anywhere or can otherwise show you in some way that he means nothing. Telling you doesn't cut it; she has to show it to you.

But the problem isn't even him, it is the situation. SIL may be younger, more attractive and gets more attention, but there have been books written about how to pick up married women by pretending to show interest in one of their friends. It isn't the guy, it's the situation.

Living separate lives is never the secret to lasting marriage.

JMO

Mark

Where do you come up with this stuff? You aren't on any kind of meds are you?

We all come into this place with our own filters and experiences. Yours seems to have a theme of being neglected and wanting attention from your partner. But others are dealing with much more complex issues than that. Join your lying partner so she doesn't feel neglected doesn't quite cut the cheese on this one.

Oh My,
You ARE Slim, aren't you?

Ouch!

Hmm, I don't think that I ever said any words to the effect that are in quotation marks above. I think that I just didn't communicate very well my thoughts. Sorry.

My postings here and on the other thread are actually consistent. My point is that the couple should really discuss the problem and come up with a mutually agreeable solution. It could be for the guy to give up the porn or for her to accept his use of it. It could be for Guyguy's wife giving up going dancing, to let his W go dancing when the other guy goes about properly.

Anyway, thanks for pointing out that my posting could be interpreted as having double standard. I'll be more careful in the future in my writing.

TJ Alert!

Average guy,

for what it's worth, I REALLY LIKE YOU!!!!

(As much as you can like anyone on a message board).

I just feel like you are able to speak very bodly and confidently, and YET are quite humble when someone gives you feedback.

A true gentleman, in my opinion. I know a lot of people don't "get" you, but... I appreciate you a lot (even your sometimes unconventional approach. :-))

Nia , I wondered the same thing...

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

(sorry guyguy)