Hi AG,
No, you never used those exact words.....i should have been clearer. sorry about that.
I do, however feel that you have said things very similar but i am not 1 to go dig up and respost your posts and argue about it.
I do feel your advice is pretty consistent. That was why i was a little thrown by your comments on this thread.

hi telly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I wouldn't suggest forcing yourself to spend all your time doing something you don't enjoy either. But why are you pondering it to the extreme? Going occasionally doesn't mean spending all your time, nor does it mean losing contact with all your friends.

Fearing situations when you go occasionally, hmm, doesn't that mean those same situations might be happening when you're not there too? Not to build your paranoia or anything, but isn't it true? I really think the best solution is to occasionally take your W dancing. You don't necessarily have to go to that same place, ya know. But I would recommend discussing it and figuring out a little o' that for her and go as a couple. It's romantic.

Yes, she married you, but if she is letting another man fill her need for Recreational Companionship, somebody else is making deposits in her love bank. That needs to be you.

An example...one time my husband had tickets for a baseball game (only 2), so I couldn't go because who would watch the kids. So he offered the extra ticket to people at work. It so happened that a female responded first. I told him that I was fine with him going with a male, but I really didn't think it healthy for our marriage for him to go with a female...so he would not be spending Recreational Companionship with a woman. He did not go or he went by himself, I forget.
Now we do go to at least half a dozen baseball games a year together as a family, so he is not deprived of baseball. But he has a RC need, and it best be you that fills it!

How much trouble can a girl get herself into in the company of her own mother?

pieta,

My understanding is that Mom is free and single...

Whose mother goes out clubbing with her single daughter?

Mark

Mark,

I just cannot fathom a woman getting into much trouble in the company of her mother regardless of her mother's marital status.

However, I haven't been in a dance club since Jimmy Carter was President so I'm not even sure what "clubbing" means these days.

I never said that dancing was ALWAYS sexual. I said that dancing has sexual characteristics to it, or sexual "tones" if you want to say it that way.

For the most part, with the exception of things such as line dancing, dancing is preferred with a member of the OPPOSITE sex. Rarely do you see 2 men dancing with each other, especially R&B/Hip Hop, unless they have a relationship with each other. Neither will you see for the most part, 2 women slow-dancing/closely.

So...if dancing does not have a sexual tone to it, WHY is there a sexual preference to it? Does holding hands have a sexual tone to it? How about sitting somewhere with your arm around someone? I place dancing with a member of the opposite sex somewhere close to that.

Bottom line is this....Getting needs met from a member of the opposite sex, that normally a member of the same sex doesn't, is NOT healthy for a relationship no matter how you want to spin it.

If you will take the time to read the initial post, you will see:



Sorry, but I see sexual tones written all over that. I didn't say they were even considering sex, nor manipulating as you put it.

I would like for someone to give me a couple of examples of activities, where a member of the opposite sex is the preferred partner, that ISN'T sexual in nature. Because I can't think of any.

Well, the news that your wife is not very flirty is good.

How long have you guys been married again?

Here's a little lesson I learned that applies to your comments about about having to trust her:

It is POINTLESS to put effort into doing something which is not real. For example, there was a guy that came on here and wanted badly to know how her could force himself to trust his wife again. His wife had sent naked pictures of herself to her co-worker via her phone. Yet, as he explained, it was very obvious that his wife was continuing to be dishonest with him.

This man was spinning his wheels trying his hardest to find a way to trust his wife. Do you understand what I'm getting at? The cart was put before the ox. She needed to be trustworthy before he spent all this energy trying to trust her. He was totally waisting his time and going through a pointless excercise because the reality was that his wife had not gotton to a point that she deserved to be trusted.

I call this the "organic" nature of a relationship. A relationship is supposed to respond to goods and bads. When it's poked at or bad things are done to it, it's supposed to say "ouch!" When the organism decided it's bad to say "ouch" and ignores that it is being hurt, that's when the really unhealthy and bad things can happen.

So regardless of people that want to say there is no right and wrong-- only different perspectives, keep in mind that the truth of a situation does matter. If you are going to counseling to work on trusting your wife when in reality, she is untrustworthy, you are completely waisting your time.

There are a few questions that I need answered before I form an opinion.

1. What sort of place are they going to? Some places are real meat markets. If you have a pulse, the guys are going to hit on you. A lot. Even if you're dressed like an off-duty nun.
2. How often does your wife go without you?
3. How many hours of recreational time are you two getting together each week?
4. Are her mom and sister single? Women are competitive by nature, whether we admit it or not.

This is my own painfully honest experience. Dance clubs are the number one place I can think of for people of the opposite sex to get together. In my early 20s, I spent a lot of time in them. I did like dancing and socializing. I also enjoyed the admiration, the free drinks, and the hot guys. That's why I mostly quit going to them when I got married. We've been married for ten years and I can count the number of dance clubs that I've been to without him on one hand and have fingers left. Those times were for specific occasions with friends when he was out of town.

If I want to spend social time with friends, I usually prefer to go somewhere that has a low enough volume that we can speak to each other.

Most of us are here because we've learned that it's possible for nearly anyone to cheat. The best weapon we have is good personal boundaries. Unfortunately, it's a lesson usually learned the hard way. Those who feel that they can engage in any sort of situation and never be tempted have a high level of risk.

For the record, if some guy took the intitiative to use my phone number from a class roster like that, I'd be highly annoyed, not solicitous of his feelings. That's a big presumption.

My mother in law does adores me and thinks I have done great things for her daughter. My W has actually said "do you think my mom would let anything happen if she thought it might hurt you".

One thing that I'm not sure people caught was that this guy she danced with is a former classmate.

Is an old classmate not higher risk for an affair than even the common "hot" stranger? I've lost count of how many stories I've heard of how it all started out with www.classmates.com or some similar site.

I personally do not believe that she did not plan to dance with him again and then he found her phone number on a website and text messaged her. That story simply doesn't add up. How did he know it was her cell number? Because you can't txt a real number. I believe she gave him her phone number and so that is yet another lie of omition.

guyguy is in a potion to want to believe his wife. But I personally do not believe that she is being completely honest with him.

I would like to hear how often she goes dancing and what kind of atmosphere this place is as well.

I find this thread ery interesting as I am trying to deal with some similar issues in my M (my sitch) and in particular issues pertaining to the ability to trust (me) and trustworthiness (W).

I feel that my recent decision to seek counsel for my issues is a positive step toward improving my M. But I am far from sure that this will be enough, i.e. until and unless my W acknowledges that she has a role in this and a responsibility to help improve things there may be a limit to the amount of improvement that is possible. In other words, it is/should be a 50/50 deal.

I just read over your situation.

I do think you have valid reasons to be concerned and hurt by your wife's behavior. I know sometimes a spouse like that can make you feel that you are the one that is jealous and crazy and that other husbands would be cool with her behavior. And I am giving you validation that I think most men would have a problem with the behaviors you described. Remember.... if it talks and walks like a duck, there's a VERY good chance that it IS a duck.

I think it's honorable that you're trying to clean up your side of the fence. But, like I said... at the heart of it all is the truth. When ones efforts and understandings aren't working in harmony with the truth, they are waisting their time. It may yield personal improvement but it probably won't help the original problem that was attempted being worked on. And the real danger in this case is that you might be able to successfully train yourself to ignore red flags and to always aim to trust as she continues to be unfaithful. Training yourself to ignore red flags is psycologically unhealthy.

FYI. I went to a counselor a few times and told her everything as honestly as I could. She concluded I was paranoid and even offered medication as an option. Thank God I didn't pursue that option! But turns out wife really was cheating and did so multiple times with more than one man. So psycologists don't have the corner on the truth. Lots of times, you just have to trust your gut.

And I'll add another dynamic I see with guyguy.

If you look through posts like this... it's obvious the poster WANTS to believe their spouse isn't cheating.

15 people could come on and say "I think she's cheating". And one person will offer some kind of advice like "I think you have a disorder". The poster will TEND to listen to that one poster. It's because the poster is hoping against hope that their spouse is faithful and will cling to that advice.

Just a pattern I've noticed.

Agree - Thanks for the response and the validation. I am hopeful that IC will help and so on that basis it is the thing to do. I believe much of my W's behavior is a manifestation of issues that she has and for which I do not believe she is likely to seek help. I want her to be happy and not have to behave in the ways that she sometimes does but ultimately that is up to her. In the meantime I'll do what I can to improve.