and, would he be right?

Seems like just recently, there was a thread from someone else on here, about someone having an "EA" with someone. The question came up, something like "well, what if that person doesnt return affection...."
I think that an EA does not have to be two-way. it's what is going on with the emotions of the person involved, that makes it an EA.
To look at the contra-positive: If the "other person" is fully pursueing you, but you have no feelings for them... it's not an EA.
It's not about the other person, it's about you.


another question for you:
Were you previously "strongly committed to NEVER lying, no matter what...", or was it just that you told the truth because you never had enough self-justification to tell a lie previously?

If the second... it wasn't that you "became" that person... it was that when pressure was put upon you, your actual value scale for truth vs. lying was revealed to you.
It might be that you resent knowing that about yourself, rather than an actual change to yourself.


We all do. That's a very positive goal. You can achieve that someday.

No, WH wouldn't be right. I'm not interested in a R w/anyone while I am married to another or to have a R w/someone who is married.

As for the question about my lying, I don't know. I am very honest in my professional life, even to the point of making myself look bad if I haven't done something that I was supposed to do. I am honest in my personal life exlusive of my marriage.

I don't recall being a liar before this but, I have never been in this type position to have to examine and dissect myself as I am doing now.

a small point of clarification:
when I asked "is he right?", I didn't mean "is he right about you having an EA?"

I meant, "is he right,(or rather, would his expected response be right) about it being POSSIBLE to have an EA, with a married man"

To which my response was, I think it's possible to have a one-way EA. [in contrast to PAs, which kinda have to be 2-way]

I think it's possible to have a one-way or two-way EA but, a PA can only be two-way.

My comment was simply that telling him that the guy is getting married would not make him feel any differently. He knows that the guy has been dating someone for a year now but tells me that I better hurry back to church so I can try to break them up before it gets too serious.

When he gets mad he tells me to go to church and see my b/f.

i agree. it wouldn't. and I think you agreed, that there isn't actually a logical basis for him to feel differently if you told him that guy was getting married.

All that being said... that doesn't have much to do with whether or not to tell him truth yourself from now on.
Sounds like you're implying that you will only tell him the truth about your actions, if you have a way to justify your actions to avoid a negative reaction from him.
That is not compatible with being truthful from now on.

You don't want him to lie to you any more.
In that, you simply want him to tell you truth, and stop telling lies. I didn't hear you asking for him to try to explain away his behaviour, or justify it. You were simply asking for truth. no more.
I don't think you were looking for him to "tell you the truth, so long as he had a justification to give you about it".

Not implying that I should / will tell truth based on situation. I intend to tell him the truth. But..... I still fear his reaction to the truth with good reason.

When I told him that I went to church this past Sunday I went from being the woman that he is deeply in love with and for whom he would do anything to being a sl&t, bitXX and a wh$re. I was cursed for all I was worth. I was threatened with him throwing my belongings in the street.

Then......... the next day ......... it went to his life not being worth living. He didn't actually use the S word but, the implication was there.

No, I don't want to be lied to anymore. And, I could justify and say that my lies aren't as bad as his lies but a lie is a lie. Frankly, I don't want to be in a position or relationship where I feel that I am in danger when I am truthful about something. Or, in a R where I have to keep things to myself for fear of reprisal.

i can certainly understand that.

it's too bad that your husband probably doesnt.

(although 'throwing your belongings out in the street', isnt technically bodily harm.... and is a fairly comon reaction by someone who belives their spouse is cheating on them)

In this case I don't think he's threatening to throw my stuff out b/c he thinks I'm cheating on him. I think it's a matter of him thinking that he's losing control.

As long as I do what he wants me to do he's okay. If I go against him and he sees his control slipping, then he goes off the deep end and threatens me or himself.

As long as I don't go to church, he thinks he's in control. He will even tell me to go. He will say that I need to go. He will say that I can go and he assures me there will be nothing said. But he knows that I know that if I do go there will be [email]h@ll[/email] to pay. So, he's in control when I don't go and not in control when I do go.

So, don't go and there's no reason for him to react b/c he has me where he wants me. If I go then there's a problem.

Hmmmmm. It seems to me that you are wrapped up in the drama of your life instead of doing something about it. You can go to parenting class without him. Get the certificate. It is then up to the judge. He will order your husband to go, end of story.

Do what you gotta do to get on with your life and forget about all the drama.

Larry

Yeah, I know and I hate it. The other aspects of my life are so peaceful.

I have seen over the last 2-3 years that drama is a big part of his life. My life was calm, even keeled and peaceful before I met him. Since then, it's one drama, one crisis after another. Another thing that I've noticed is that he gets caught up in petty teenager kind of stuff,i.e. somebody is going to beat him up, place where he gets company supplies there's women who work the counter. They are married but have b/fs who come in and get supplies and they get waited on better, and on and on. Always a fight with company employees. Just weird childish stuff that you would think a 42 year old wouldn't get involved in.

I think the judge is going to sign w/o him going but he doesn't know that and I'm not telling at this point just in case the judge changes his mind.

Sounds like what you're saying, is that, for as long as you've known him, he's been paranoid.

You said higher up, " I think it's a matter of him thinking that he's losing control.".
He may have control issues... but for the church thing, it sounds to me like this is actually another instance of his paranoia, rather than control.
It sounds like he really believes you have an EA about this guy at church. Sometimes, he gets a grip, and thinks, "nah, it's not really happening, it's ok", which is when he tells you it's ok with him if you go. But then when you go, paranoia hits him again.

Not sure that it's paranoia............ It's that he gets caught up in squabbles with people in their early 20s. Punks that threaten to beat people up .... his son is like that.

I know that probably a lot of his problems stem from his early childhood; very poor, dysfunctional, left home at 15 to escape his family. Mom is a very nasty woman who gave him no love (from what I understand).

I don't know if it's paranoia or just rage at not being able to control what I do. He was always big on image and control. An example of control is that when we were going to church together and church ended, he would strike up a conversation with someone in the foyer or the parking lot. We (me and the kids) would go to the car. If after 20 minutes or so he hadn't come to the car, I would approach him and say that we were ready to go. In order to prove to me that he was in control he would deliberately make us wait another 20 - 30 minutes before he came to the car.
He has admitted this to me so it's not a subjective comment.

" he would deliberately make us wait another 20 - 30 minutes before he came to the car.
He has admitted this to me so it's not a subjective comment. "

Hmmm....

that's a different kind of control, though.
it's just straight out pigheadedness :-}

if the church thing were "control"... it feels like a very different style of control.
Which to mean, at least, hints that it might not be pirmarily a control tactic.

I dunno. Just throwing out thoughts here.

I can understand why he thought there was something there. I made some poor choices in talking w/the guy.

But......

The part I don't understand is how he could be in the middle of an active affair and at the same time be cursing me out b/c I was going to church. He had crossed the line that I never crossed but gave me such grief.

I don't understand the double standard that has always existed with him. I always went overboard trying to please him and put myself last. Even put him before my child. But, when I started finding out the stuff that he had been doing and coupled that with the abuse I was suffering at his hands I just shut down.

If I think about us long enough I could curl up into a ball and just cry myself to sleep. I miss him. I miss the man I dated and married 10 years ago. I just can't reconcile the man I knew with the man I now know. And maybe he could say the same thing as well. Abuse and hurt and heartache can scar you and change you.

I used to be such a crybaby. Let a sad movie or song come on or toucing sermon at church, and I was a blubbering baby. Now, it has to be really sad and tearjerking to make me cry. I feel numb inside sometimes.

I just pray to God that I've made the right decision to continue forward with the D. God put the desire in my heart to have someone in my life. I pray that God has someone out there for me and I pray that He will give me the wisdom to know it when He allows him into my life.

I have a hard time sometimes thinking about my H not being in my life anymore. I know without a doubt that as soon as we are divorced, he will start dating again. It won't be long. He may even already be talking to his next g/f.

I just have to keep believing that there is a purpose for everything. I may never know why certain things happened. But, I do believe God is in control. I just have a way of trying to help God and end up goofing up time and again.

Can anyone explain mean and nasty behavior when a spouse is telling you in one breath that they want to make the M work but in the next breath they are cursing you out?

I just don't get the nasty.

H called me this morning. I was on phone w/my niece. Clicked over and told him I would call him back. Called him back about 20 min later. He accused me of talking to OM and said I took too long.

It went downhill from there.

Whenever this stuff happens I just think that's further confirmation that this would never work. I look at it that he's acting like this and we're not back together. How much worse would it be if we did get back together?

Does this make sense to anyone or can anyone explain this type behavior?

When you can say, "I don't talk to people who accuse me falsely and are generally mean and nasty - call me when you can be nice" and then hang up, you might have to repeat that a few times, but he'll get the message you have a backbone and some boundaries.

Memorize your lines if you have to and repeat as frequently as needed - if you even want to talk with him at all. If you don't, change your phone #. Nothing says you have to have any contact with this person at all.

((( L2S )))

This is how I cope when dealing with mean, nasty people. I tell myself that they are ~

just not happy

happy people do not act that way

Then I kinda turn it into pity, glad I am not them. And, try to look at them in the light that --

they are just not happy


Hope this helps a little.. blessing to you

car

Yada, yada, yada, on and on and on, it never ends.

You are trying to understand him. Unless you are going to go to college and major in abnormal psychology, you are not going to get where you think you want to get: understanding him.

The woods are full of screwed up people. They infest the planet. There are as many reasons why they are screwed up as there are people. Some of them are just genetically predisposed to be screwed up. Others allow themselves to be damaged goods by the choices they make or the way they were raised or the influence of the moon on their libido.

It just depends.

My question to you is simple. You are caught up in his drama. How does that allow you have a happier life? God and mom made him, you are NOT going to change him and likely you will never be able to understand him.

He is an alien in a human suit.

I suggest that you might want to consider putting the life you had with him and his problems behind you except for what you learned; don't do business with a nutcase.

Larry

He called me a dozen times today. He has this habit of asking if he's interrupting anything if he calls and I don't answer the phone for whatever reason. Today, I was trying on clothes. When I didn't answer and then called him back, that's what I heard. What he means by interrupting is am I with a man. He'll back track and say that he just wanted to make sure I was in a situation where I could talk but what he means is the other.

So, fast forward to this evening. He asked and I told him that I wanted to go to church tomorrow. It all went downhill.

He started cursing me out, calling me names. According to him he is at our house right now putting all my things on the front porch. He says he has broken some things. Our wedding pictures: he says he is throwing them in the trash.

I was so stupid to believe that we could ever end this peacefully. So, instead of going to church tomorrow, I will be going there and trying to get as much of my stuff as I can.

It really doesn't matter though. This marriage was doomed from day one. It was always destined to end this way. He says I have done it now. It's over and he wants me out of his life. I might as well just go with it and get it over with. I will get boxes in the morning and go over and start packing. So much for being able to organized and pack to take to a storage building. Now it's going to be a nasty fight over everything. But, as I said before it would have been anyway. I was a fool to think we could ever end this peacefully.

Please pray for me. I am in for a rough week. I will be asking for a couple of days off so I can get my stuff.

He just called again. He called to let me know that he is going through all the notes, letters, cards I ever gave him and he is throwing them away. He wants to erase me from his life.

Our wedding pictures: in the trash. I can't have them b/c he doesn't want me to.

This is also typical of him to call and rub it in my face. He wants to make sure I know what he's doing b/c it hurts. I never wanted it to end this way but I do believe it was inevitable.

He told me earlier that he hasn't been cheating on me since the A w/the OW ended. But, he will make sure that he is out with the first woman that comes along.

Just nasty.