Thanks to everyone again for all their help and great advice. And thank you MortarMan for such an in depth analysis of my plight, I'm so amazed you and everyone would spend all this time to help someone they don't know. MM you really gave me the motivation I needed to do this, addressed all my biggest concerns one by one. I can't tell you guys how much it means to me to have so much support from people I've never met!

I AM going to do the exposure. I'm planning it now, some letters to send, phone calls to make, people to meet, and the timing of it all so everyone finds out within a day or two. Only targeting those who are most important.

The OM is single, with one young son (about 5). His ex wife lives in town, but I don't know her address yet, just her name. I confirmed by public divorce records that they are divorced. His, his ex wife, and the parents all show up on the initial searches - I'm going to buy their addresses and send them all a letter (or maybe even call them if I'm feelin brave).

The OM and my wife don't work together, he works, but my wife's a stay at home mom, but will be working again soon. OM works from home, hence the ease of the affair to continue while I'm at work and kids at school!!! So I can't expose at any work sites. WW and OM met at a bookstore! The classic pick-up place! Unbelievable.

My wife's best friend is in on it, has provided cover in the lies ... but I think she'll listen to me when I call her too. And, her husband doesn't know, I'm sure, so I'm going to tell him, maybe he'll tell his wife to behave or make her feel ashamed of what she's doing to me.

The BIGGEST impact will be my wife's family. They all live in South America, but we're all close, have travelled there about 8 times in the past 12 years, and she talks to them every week. Her parents would REALLY disapprove of this affair I think, they will be my most powerful weapon. Her dad is so traditional, though, he might not even talk to her, me might just "disown" her, even if we got back together, even if I asked him to forgive her - I'm still contemplating leaving him out of the exposure.

I have thought about somehow trying to find out if OM has other girlfriends, but I don't know how without hiring a private detective. Any suggestions?

Hopeful,

Let me distill this for you. The exposure note or words should be short and to the point. Something like:
"My W, your ***, is having an affair. I am trying to save this marriage for the sake of the kids and because I love her. I am telling you this because I need your help in trying to convince her to end this affair. Your assistance would be greatly appreciated."

And then as someone or actually many people have stated, you don't apologize for exposing. You look her in the eye and say "I will do whatever it takes to try to save this marriage to that the kids have a whole family, and you and I are happily married again." And then end the discussion.

I would also suggest that you do some serious reading of the articles on this site. It will be tough, and this may end in divorce, but that is the end it will have if nothing changes isn't it? Just as all of us have said, "nothing changes until something changes." And what changes is that her affair is no longer a secret. That turns out to be very very powerful.

Oh, some suggest a "rolling" exposure or concentric if you will, exposing to close family, and then moving out. I think in this case, you need the "nuclear" option.

Hang in there, and get after this.

God Bless,

JL

Do not leave her H out of the exposure. NEVER protect a WS from the consequences of their actions. It just enables them further. Her father disowning her would put a HUGE burden on her affair.

Thanks to you guys I think I'm learning to understand the language of the Wayward species!

This evening my WW called and after a short discussion, she said I've got to learn to deal with this situation, that people in my situation (BS's) go through phases, and anger is one of them, it would pass, and I would go into the "acceptance" phase which comes later, and maybe I should set up some appointments with a counselor to help me deal with the fact that she's going to continue the A. Oh, and find one that's not so expensive, would you?

Honestly if I hadn't spoken with you guys I probably would have decided to leave her right then and there, but this time I recognized it as such nonsense, insane WS babble, I almost just laughed! How refreshing to be able to rise above it.

good lord.... there is another thread somewhere that has the best fog talk from WS - this is good - perhaps one of the best.

rwinger,

You are right this could be award winning material.

Hopefull, hang in there. I need to go find WAT's posts about alien abduction. I think you realize that she has been beamed up to the Mothership don't you? She has and what is left in her place is this creature that looks a great deal like your W, but is not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Trust me as you begin to notice the alien behavior you will not be so impacted by her statements and actions. Deal is to get your REAL W beamed back down from the Mothership.

Hang in there and...

God Bless,

JL

wow... she sounds like she's HIGH on drugs or sumthin'

Another thing you must get together as you launch your nuclear exposure...

You need to protect your kids! The way to do that is to start getting together everything you need to get custody, if this gets worse. You see how absolutely screwed up she is. No way she can handle those kids alone.

You will need a plan on that. You need to document everything, everyday. Everything said and done by both of you. You need to make sure you begin to take over many of her duties with the kids. She will go for that, because it will free her up to do more with the OM. In the meantime, you will be establishing a case that you are the sane parent and the one most involved in their upbringing.

Another thing...what state do you live in? This also matters because some states are fault states and do not look highly on adultery.

So, start documenting. Get your finances in a place where she cant run off with them. See an attorney and have him prepare things if your wife gets ugly with this. And take care of your kids.

This is far from over. But almost certainly there are some big battles ahead!

Hopeful,
A little late here but read through everything. I note that you made the initial post 4 days ago, have you exposed? There are no magic words, just the facts and impact it's had on you and the kids. Sorry it hurts others but she had the A, not you.
After exposing, I'd also recommend calling the OM and let him know that you're on top of things and will not be cowered. He's a cuckolding pond scum. Not recommending any physical action but just putting him on notice that you know. OMs (and OWs), by definition, are cowards.
I was going to say document everything related to the A and your caring for the kids by MM already covered that and he's one of the best here.

Get a copy of Love Must Be Tough by Dobson. It's a good read with the basic message that people lose love for who they don't respect. Sounds like KiwiJ's H, in one of her posts above, sent this message to her loud and clear and that helped her break through the fog (sorry KJ if I'm over stepping anything).

Your wife needs shock therapy and the A needs a strong acid bath, exposing is the tool to accomplish both.
BTW, you sound pretty composed for living in emotional he11, you are probably much stronger that you're giving yourself credit for. If you're a praying man, that helps too!
In the words of Teddy Roosevelt - "speak softly but carry a big stick" - exposure is the stick (for now).
We're pulling for you.

V/r,
No Way

Just to give you an update...

I had a phone call with Steve Harley yesterday to talk about my situation. He told me to wait a week before doing the exposure, wanted to try to talk to my WW first.

No Way, I read the Love Must Be Tough book - it's a great book, thanks for recommending it. Great info about the importance of winning back the respect of a WW. And I couldn't BELIEVE some of the things those women did to try to win back their WH's, like inviting the OW into their bed, etc. One thing though, is that he actually discourages telling others about the affair - he refers that as "spreading rumors". He says you have to be strong and let the WS's "go free" to win their respect and make them a little fearful, and hopefully make them want to come back. I'd say that in my case, I was strong in some areas, where I haven't begged her to stop the affair, told her I'd die if she left, etc. - but I've been weak by not taking any decisive action so far. I was basically trying to talk to her, reason with her, and at least for the first month, was really trying to meet her em's that I hadn't met. But then when I didn't get much back, I got discouraged, and the anger started taking over. WW kept seeing OM, and i just started with withdraw from her, now she's withdrawing from me, and her I am.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your continued help. I'll keep posting.

Steve Harley is an excellent source of advice. He is a professional. That said, he is a professional and he has formulas he uses because of the numberless people he talks to. He is providing advice and guidelines.

Please don't rationalize what he says into what you THINK he is saying. This is the big danger of counseling. Feed it back to him and see what he says about your take on his advice.

Right now the person most confused by all this is you. You have to get your head on straight before you can protect the family you have. In order to get your head on straight, you have to think in terms of outcomes and what they really mean, not what you want them to mean.

1. You know your wife is screwed up. She is involved in a form of temporary or permanent insanity.
2. You need a lawyer, really, really bad, to tell you what your REAL options and power, if any, are.
3. You need to document, document, document. And you need to do so in a place where it is secret. This forum is NOT secret. This forum can be used against you in court. I have seen it happen.

What kind of life is your wife proposing for your kids? Is that a good thing?

Here are a couple of things you need to know:

1. Your wife's affair will terminate at some point in time. This is a 97% certainty.
2. If you allow it to run its course, you will go nuts and she will lose all respect for you.
3. Your course of action is a rocky road that will not get easier no matter what you do. But what you do forms the basis for who you become as a result of this adversity someone else choose to infest your life with.

In other words, you need to think about who you are and who you want to be and then act accordingly. Use Steve Harley for what he is good for and that is formula advice based on his extensive experience and his analysis of your situation.

Be sure that you tell him everything and play back his advice so you don't get it wrong. The bottom line is you gotta fix yourself, set goals and take a course of action, because until your own head is screwed on straight, you cannot help your wife get her's our of the fog, if that is even possible, and it may not be.

I wish you well - and whatever luck you make for yourself.

Larry

Larry178,

I see what you're saying. In this case though, Steve specifically said not to expose yet.

I am taking your advice and will continue to do so. I agree with what you're saying, and the ramifications of delaying exposure. I just wanted to talk to the Harley's to ask about this, and was able to set up the appt a couple days after these postings. I didn't expect him to say what he said, or to want to set up future appointments, but I figure it's worth a try. Believe me, if you guys hadn't said what all you said, I wouldn't have set up those expensive appointments.

Yes I am confused about what to do, that's true. I've gotten different advice from different people - counselor, a friend of mine, a couple family members I've talked to, Harley's web site and books, other books, and you guys (who I'm really thankful for). Much of what everyone says makes sense, but some things people say is in conflict with what others say. I have to take all this into account, along with what I know, and make my choices.

Sometimes you're afraid to do anything because there are risks to all actions - but I agree the biggest risk is in doing nothing because that will guarantee the result I'm trying hardest to avoid (in this case, the risk would be 100%).

hopefuldad,

You are counseling with Steve, which is good. He'll probably put you on the Plan A course for a while, then you'll undoubtedly need to go to Plan B.

Why Plan B? You said it yourself; you didn't have a bad marriage. You had a good marriage with nothing more than the normal problems that married people encounter. What is Plan A going to prove? Its objective is to show your spouse how great your marriage can be, but frankly, your spouse is no longer interested in that now. She is infatuated with the OM; no amount of "courting behavior" on your part is going to change that.

Plan A has its greatest effect on marriages that were a bit rough before the affair. Contrary to popular belief, affairs do happen in good marriages.

Your description of your situation convinces me that you will ultimately need to separate for two reasons:

1. Your resentment is building and as you engage in lovebusting and disrespectful judgments with her, you will be inadvertently providing her with the justification for the affair and possibly a divorce. You also need to get away from having the affair thrown in your face because eventually you will lose all desire to save your marriage.

2. She is engaged in a "romantic" type affair. It will have to burn itself out. And it will burn itself out in time. Exposure might speed its demise, but it will still take time.

The question here is whether either of you will come out of this wanting to stay together.

I agree with you Hiker45 - she's infatuated with OM and I'm afraid plan B is inevitable. Plan A will not work if WW won't agree to NC, or if she breaks it. It's a romantic affair with a guy who knows how to pull her strings. I wasn't romantic enough with her, and I wasn't strong enough of a guy. Now she's eating her cake, and every bite she takes is a bite out of my love for her. Unfortunately I fear she's going to willingly eat the whole cake and lick the plate. Then, even when the affair ends and the cake is all gone, I don't know if I'd ever want her back. If she can't agree to NC after talking to Steve (she hasn't for me yet despite my repeated pleas), then I'll probably have to go straight to plan B.

HFD, Plan A is designed to work when the WW won't agree to NC. Have you read Dr. Harley's Surviving An Affair? If you haven't, you need to at your earliest opportunity. That you’ve been in Plan A for 3 months is good. Remember, the idea is to leave Plan A and enter Plan B before you lose your love for her. SH will encourage you to do as good a one as you can, for as long as you can, but to not let yourself cross the tipping point.

Note: Everything your wife has said about the whole marriage being a sham, marrying too early, etc., etc., etc., are all right out of the "Cheater's Handbook." So is her contemptuous arrogance when she says she IS going to continue the adultery no matter what and no matter how it hurts you or anyone else. What she's saying can safely be ignored because she's nothing more than an alien beamed down from the mother ship to aggravate and disrespect you. It's absolutely routine for wayward spouses to do this. To the extent you can, expect it...and ignore it.

If she hasn’t already, your WW is probably going to want to move out. She’ll say something like, “(she) needs some space to _________. You fill in the blank. Sometimes WS’s have new and interesting things to put there, but they all boil down to one thing. They want “space” all right, space to keep on committing adultery without your interference. If she wants to move out, you can’t stop her. Let her go, but make sure she understands you won’t help her even to the extent of carrying a box downstairs for her. That means no financial aid too.

BTW, do I need to add you must absolutely refuse to allow the children to be uprooted and exposed to this obscenity? Also, if she proposes a separation, she’s the one who leaves, not you. You haven’t done anything wrong, neither have your children, and you three deserve to stay in the home.

Have you already seen (or can you get to) your doctor and ask for antidepressants to help you get past the rough times? They will help, believe me.

Have you seen an attorney yet? You really, really need to have some preliminary discussions with one in case your WW tries to loot your checking and savings accounts, etc. If you haven’t already safeguarded your finances, do it.

Pardner, stay with what SH is telling you. Exposure is a tool used to break up the affair but if SH sees another way to do it, power to you. Assuming when the week passes and SH indicates exposure is appropriate, how’s that exposure plan coming?

Hang in there, HFD.

Don't fall into the trap of making comparisons between your relationship with your wife and the OM's relationship with her. The affair relationship is fantasyland; no dishes to do, no clothes to wash, no children to take care of, no responsibility of any kind -- it's all romance conducted only at the convenience of both parties.

Could you have been more romantic? Who among us could not be? We all take our marriages for granted at some point -- but it's no reason to cheat on your spouse.

Your wife fell in love with you once. Those feelings are still inside of her, suppressed under the exhilerating high of the affair. But the fantasy can't last. When it finally crumbles there's a fair chance for recovery as long as you don't lose your love for her.

Like Longhorn says, hang in there.

I'm back after a week of silence - I reposted my entries to this thread.

My WW stalled in talking to Steve, said she'd think about it but needed time, and I got the impression that would be a LOT of time. So, I've started the exposure plan.

I called OM's ex wife yesterday to find out how she felt about him, what kind of a guy he was, etc. looking for things that he would not have volunteered to my wife. She said she was sorry about it, sort of already knew he was seeing a married woman, but didn't want to get involved because he's the father of her son, and she doesn't want to damage her relationship with him now that they're being polite to each other and doing well trading the kid back and forth. She said it really su**s being divorced with a small child, I told her we had two small kids, she seemed pretty sorry to hear that they might get dragged into a bad situation.

I think she told OM that I called, because when I came home, my WW was angry and asked if I'm being "sneaky" etc. - I played dumb. She called me a liar and said she wasn't gonna see anyone until we get divorced, and maybe she'll file on Monday. Maybe he told her he was breaking it off until she got divorced, I don't know.

I told her I wasn't gonna leave the house though, and we had an argument that basically can be summarized that she said I'm being a selfish A-****, only thinking about myself, not moving out so she can "think", and I was saying I'm taking a stand for our family, our marriage, and our kids, that I'm not moving out so she can continue her affair, and that things between us could work out if she stopped being so angry. So if she wanted a divorce then SHE's the one who'll have to leave and drag the kids out of their home (in reality I would try to keep the kids) - but that I didn't want her to do that, I wasn't going to push her out either - I want to make things work between us, meet her em's, stop lb's, etc. She couldn't argue with me on that, other than just to insult me and say I'm being selfish. She said she'd respect me more if I left, but I said if I left I'd be giving up on the family, that that would be disrespectful, and that instead I stood for a united family, and I want her with me. It ended in a stalemate, but I felt I was right. If I lose the marriage, at least I won't lose my pride! It ended with her saying then things will just continue like they have been (implying her affair will continue) - that that's what she actually wanted in the first place - both men in her life. I need to continue the exposure..

I read Trying65's story all the way through and that really helped a lot - his situation is SO similar to mine. BUT I don't think my wife is gonna come around anytime soon.

What do you think about exposing to a Latin family in Easter weekend? Would it be bad taste, should I wait til Monday? They might be having all their family get togethers, events, and I don't want to spoil it for WW's mom. And I don't think my WW is going to see OM this weekend.

I haven't talked to Steve since the first time, because I don't think he could say anthing more than you guys have been saying - what do you think?

Also, I'm seeing a layer on Monday.

You expose when you find out and you have to. You can always find a reason to stall. Expose now!

I did it! A is exposed where it matters most. WW's mother will be coming from overseas to stay with us for a while and help her end the affair and get out of her Fog. If you guys hadn't prodded me, I wouldn't have done it. Thanks for your help.

WW doesn't know this yet, so I'm preparing myself for the heat. Wish me luck!

yeah!!!!