My wife and I have been married for 16 years and have been together a total of 18 (Me 40 & her 38). We have 3 kids (12,10,8) and live in family centric neighborhood south of Dallas. In September of 2006, she told me (to my great surprise <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />) that she wasn’t happy with our marriage, wanted out and wasn’t interested in working on the marriage. I got the standard array of comments (I don’t love you anymore, I am not physically attracted to you, I don’t like you touching me anymore- I think a sexual aversion may have developed somewhere during our relationship as described on this site). By way of background, we have a very low conflict marriage, no abuse, arguing or other goofy stuff. We have not had a fight in 10+ years. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, I can see that affection, sex and her attitude to the marriage had been subtly decreasing leading up to her September 2006 announcement.

Following her announcement in September 2006, I went into an immediate plan A (studied this site completely); making changes to me while attempting to create an environment that she would hate to leave. Although I didn’t believe it possible at first, she had meet some a$$ through a “friend” and had started and EA that lead to a passionate PA. Based on my review of the evidence gathered by the PI, it looks like she was the purser in the relationship. After living through four months of absolute torture while implementing plan A (she was unpleasant while having the affair to say the least) she finally asked me for a divorce in January 2007. I said that is fine, but you need to come clean about the affair….. After presenting the file of evidence (multiple hotels, B&B receipts, phone records, emails, fancy underwear and lotions…. Yuck!—she never did that for me…), she admitted to the affair. I kicked her out of the house immediately.

I told her that I still loved her and that she was welcome back anytime, but needed to agree to MB principles including NC and counseling with the Harleys so that we could work on our marriage. After two weeks of living apart, she agreed to moved back in (end of January 2007). I question her motives…Guilt?, Comfort? The Kids? Probably not me. She went through a terrible withdrawal/depression cycle, crying all the time. Boy is that fun watching your wife get depressed over the loss of a boyfriend (great sarcasm!). After about 6 weeks and a good dose of antidepressants, she leveled off.

Following her return and after 4 independent calls with the Harley’s, she quite counseling. I think that initially after her return, I may have smothered her…. No LB’s, but just too much smothering. I have since backed way off, which has had a positive effect. Here is what is disturbing and I need the collective wisdom of this board to help me think through… WW’s please comment ….

She told me that for several years leading up to the September 2006 announcement that she was unhappy with our marriage and had thought quite extensively about divorce (although she never mentioned it to me nor did her actions support this thinking). I think she really emotionally detached from our marriage over that period (with the benefit of hindsight, I can kind of see that now). I think the affair was an “exit affair,” subconsciously designed to help her get out of the marriage. I think she thought I would absolutely explode when I found out about the affair and that would carry us through the divorce. Well that didn’t happen….I never let go of plan A because I cared for her too much.

Now she has been back for 3+ months (1/2 of which has been recovery from depression and withdrawal). There is no affection between us (the lack of affection (even a simple hug or kiss) and no sex is killing me!!). She said she still doesn’t know if she wants to work on the marriage (won’t go to counseling or read books and etc), but isn’t making any moves to leave (probably because she doesn’t know exactly how/what to do). She said she may have moved back in too soon out of sheer guilt without fully contemplating or agreeing to my conditions. She continues to say she is just really confused and doesn’t know what to do. She is pleasant around the house now, but it is just like living with a friend, not a wife. She has done absolutely nothing (zip, nada) to ease my pain during this process, just nothing. In fact, she has been entirely self absorbed. She doesn’t yet appreciate, or at least acknowledge the pain I have gone through. You would think most wives would be grateful to have a husband welcome them home after their affair, not mine.

This is like the twilight zone…. She goes out and has an affair (wild sex and etc which really burns me up because I never got it from her), then returns. I get no affection (or sex) and am stuck trying to hold my marriage together in some form of purgatory where we can’t really talk about things or she feels pressure and there is not a commitment to either work on the marriage or to leave…..we just kind of bump along with me in major plan A working my a$$ off with out any reciprocation. It would seem like she should care more about me and be reaching out to help heal the damage…. But she just isn’t. It like we are just existing…… she is not trying to make it better or worse for that matter

Based on my continuing surveillance, I believe the NC is holding. She is certainly not acting like she did during the affair. I just can’t figure out what to do. How long do I need to live in this purgatory? She doesn’t know if she wants to work on the marriage, but doesn’t know if she wants to leave either. We are less than 3-months out from D-Day, so maybe the “fog” is still be impacting her thinking. I just don’t know what to do. Sometime I think Plan A may have created an environment conducive to her return following the affair fueled by guilt, (she was confused and didn’t have the security of the affair to let her dump on me an our marriage) and wanted to see the kids but now she is “trapped” and doesn’t know how to get out. I would really like the marriage to work out, but I can’t do this alone…… How long do I stay in purgatory? Do I need to wake us and smell the coffee? What do I do?

For all of you formerly wayward wives, Thoughts? Comments? Ideas?

Patlink,
Have you talked to Steve Harley or Jennifer Chalmers? They can help you to formulate a "sales pitch" to get your WW to talk to them on the phone, without you at first. Your WW will probably find this less threatening since it is "faceless" and without you there hearing what she said. You can leave the hosue or someting when she has her session. When they next speak to you, they will have advice for how you can proceed. they won;t tell you what she said but will help you make a plan and proceed on your plan without worrying about what your WW may or may not be doing a far as R work.

This is tough, but you have to view the R work and meeting ENs as a gift. If you provide them, you must not barter and expect anything in return. You cannot guilt or manipulate your WW into wanting to do the hard work of meeting your ENs. Give as much gifts to WW as you can afford to mentally and emotionally, then take some time to take care of yourself. Have a mototrcycle? Go on an all day ride. Want to get in shape? Go lift at the local Y. Love golf? go hit a bucket of balls. You can be happy without your WW. You just need to proceed with YOUR plan and not react to her actions or lack therof.

Taking care of yourself will allow you to recreate the mental and emotional energy you need to keep on the right path and to squelch LB behavior. If you try to wake up your WW, you will be engaging in a DJ and likely push her further away. Keep up the PlanA (purgatory) for as long as you can. At some point if it is not effective, you will have exhausted the love you still feel for your WW and will be able to cut loose without being crippled by pain an anguish. Delivering ENs without getting any in return actually insulates you when it may come time to separate by depleting your lovebank. Plus you will be able to look yourself in the mirror and know that YOU did everything humanly possible. The self respect you build for yourself will pay dividends down the road. You may end up becoming a powerful intriguing figure that your WW wants to give gifts of ENs to or you may become a powerful intriguing divorced man.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I actually have an opinion on this one ... waiting to see other comments first

Pep

your situation was long, so maybe I missed it, but...

I don't see any statement that you understand WHY she was unhappy prior to 2006, and why she was considering divorce at that time.

Seems like a rather important thing to leave out.

if you don't know... well, i'd guess that's the problem here. and by "know".. i mean that she has stated/acknowleged the reasons to you, and you understand them, and how to resolve them.

Where did she go when you kicked her out? Where was she living for those two weeks?
Mulan

Questions:

1. Does W work outside the home?

2. Approximately how much money did W spend on " multiple hotels, B&B receipts" and ALL other affair-related expenses?

3. You said: .... does she still have contact (any form) with said "friend"?

4. What do you know about OM ? Married? Divorced? What?

5. Who else knows about this affair? Family? Kids? Neighbors? Friends? Who did you expose to?

~and finally~

6. What PROOF do you have that she is not secretly still in contact?

Thanks

Pep

one more !

7. Does your wife read MB message boards?

Patlink, This is actually my first post, but I feel like you wrote my story almost exactly, except I've been at this for two years now. Sucks, doesn't it? I too am wondering how long do I have to keep this up without anything in return? We are generally cordial to each other, but nothing more ever comes from it. No affection at all from her. I'd even settle for a smile and the "look." Trying to connect physically with her is nearly impossible.

My advice to you is to stay the course as long as you can, but be careful. Don't let the resentment get to you too much and push you over the edge. I don't know about you but there are days that I can't stand being treated this way and get pissed off. My kids keep me going on days like this. I have to admit that there are some bad days when the resentment and anger are so great I do some real stupid LB's. Love your kids and remember on the bad days that you are the only Dad they have and that you are setting an example for them. They can be your reason to keep trying on the bad days...

I have tried to have an open, honest and rational talk with my wife to talk about how she is feeling and what she wants out of our relationship. Unfortunatley for me, she only goes through the motions and does not truly commit to rebuilding what we once had, or thought we had. What has your wife said during your talks? Has she truly committed?

Go luck to you , my friend. Keep up with Plan A and lean on others here for support. I have found this site to be a great resource and now (since this is my 1st post) a great way to vent to others with out taking it out on my WW. I hope I can become a better resouce for you and others like us in the near future.

So sorry you find yourself here, but under the circumstances - here is the best place to be.

Did she write and mail a NC letter ?

Thanks for all the comment, I will try to respond to each.

Techie: I am an attorney in a private practice. I was away from home quite a bit while I was building my practice. I think that caused a lot of resentment to build over the years as she was stuck dealing with the stress of both her work and raising the kids without a lot of help from me. That then flowed into other parts of our relationship. Also, the standard array of LB’s and just drifting slowly apart also played a role.

Mulan: She stayed with her sister for the two weeks she was away. Her sister lives in the same town.

Peperband:
1. The wife has a semi-fulltime job out of the home as a insurance underwriter.
2. I suspect she spent $1,000 on affair related expenses
3. She has limited contact with the “friend”
4. The OM is married with no kids.
5. Both families and some friends know about the affair. I am not sure if the OW knows about the affair.
6. I have no proof that she is not secretly in contact. There are just too many things to monitor.
7. I don’t know if the wife reads these boards….
My question to you, where are you going with all this?

SK33
Misery loves company. Sorry to hear about your situation, I would like to understand it better to see if we can share any good ideas.

Carnation3

She drafted the NC letter which I put in the mail certified receipt and have the proof of delivery.

To all, comments welcome, please……

stalled recovery ~~~> check the MOST likely reason ~~~> continued contact of some sort

Call OM's wife ... ask her how she is doing ... ask if she thinks there has been contact

Pep

IF your wife reads here .... continued contact going to be much harder to "catch"

A few more questions:

Do you know for a fact that she was living at her sister's house when she moved out those two weeks?

WHY did she decide to come back home? (This is important.) If it was in your post, I didn't see it.
Mulan

" [away from home] ... [raising the kids without a lot of help from me.]"

ooo, owch.
long-standing resentment of you, for your choices and behaviour. that's gonna be tough to recover from.

The question is, are you now demonstrating different choices, and behaviour? and have you expressed regret?
If you suddenly were put back in time... would you make the same choices?

If you are doing everything right... it's still going to take a long time for her to "believe" you, most likely.

It's taken me 8 months of changed behaviour (while separated!) for my wife to maybe start believing I've changed.

be patient. be consistent. be loving.
hang in there.

Patlink,
I'm reading your post w/ interest b/c it has similarities w/ my sit, especially her resentment of sacrifices you both made for work. Hello WS, it's called contributing to Domestic Support.
IMO, I agree w/ Pep's assessment that there may be continued contact. Sounds like you have a good monitoring plan though.
Best wishes,
No Way

To all, how long do I let this ride? What is a reasonable amount of time to wait?

To former WW spouses with similar experiences, how/why did you come back to your marriages?

This is really difficult for me. I am not far out from D-Day, but I would expect some movement on her side. The no affection part is just killing me. As an attorney, I am constantly looking to “settle” open items as quickly as possible, that is just the way I am wired. In this situation, the more I push for resolve, the more she runs away. Ironically, it seems like the less we talk about the marriage and the more detached I become, the more she moves back toward the marriage. That has been the positive trend recently.

This is like a parallel universe.

How do you ever restore affection and intimacy after all this? Maybe the right questions is ‘should this marriage be saved, not can this be saved’.

I just don’t know what to do…. But I still really love my wife, even after all of this and want to keep her and my family.

I'd say .... about 15 minutes .... then call OM's wife and ask her if she has any reason to suspect contact has resumed ...

Your questions cannot be answered without knowing if you are ACTUALLY in recovery , or not ... if there is sneaky contact, then you are dealing with a still-wayward wife ~~~> so RECOVERY related suggestions are therefore .... moot

Pep

yes

yes. (although I'd guess it's not you "being detached", but more just not pressuring her).


keep doing what you are doing.

quit being a lawyer at home, and just be a husband.
stop pushing for "a deal".
treat your wife with love, and patience.

you're not going to "reason" her into loving you. you're not going to be able to "make a deal" for her to love you.

you seem to be expecting that... and when your expectations arent getting met, you are losing your will to continue.
I suggest that you drop your expectations, and refocus on why you are doing this.
Decide for yourself, how long you are willing to do this.
Not based on "well, so-and-so's wife only took 6 months, so I'll give her that long".

Base it on you, and her, and how much she means to you.

Counselor,

Pepp is dead on in this situation. IF the affair is still going on ... discussions about recovery are a waste of time. Possible scenario...WW was pressuring OM to leave his wife and take the affair to the next level. OM was not receptive to the "pressure". Her leaving you didn't change his mind and HE was to chicken $hit to tell his wife and leave. THEN...by exposing and having DDay...you threw another wrench in the entire plan. OM was scared senseless you'd tell his wife. OM went into self-protection mode and ended things with your wife. Alas...wife tells OM she is moving home and she'll keep you quiet. They maintain their communications but take them WAYYYY underground. NO MORE CHANCES. OM plays the nice guy...tells your wife to "go work on your marriage"; however, they secretly engage in playful banter and continue fantasizing about what could have been. They may even hook up once in awhile for "closure". You know...just "one last time".

What to do???

Call OM's wife and expose the affair to her. It's very likely she has not a clue about the affair. You will find out mighty quick about how "in touch" OM and WW are. I bet she goes nuts about 10 - 20 minutes after you expose. There are numerous threads about exposing to the OP's spouse herein that you've likely already read. You don't have to give her your whole file for proof though you MAY want to bring some of it along. OM will deny everything to her. She must be allowed to KNOW without a doubt the truth about her life.



On to another thing I'd like to address. You wrote in your first post that you two hadn't fought in 10 years. To me...that screams of lack of intimacy and severe conflict avoidance on both your parts. The main website has some GREAT discussion, articles, advice about how to handle conflict in relationships. Harley KNOWS his stuff. A good relationship NEES conflict. A good relationship address conflict in a healthy manner without LB to get to intimacy. She's withdrawn and resists your efforts to make progress...SO WHAT??? If you got a problem with the relationship (assuming the affair is COMPLETELY over and she is done with withdrawal) then the problem NEEDS addressing. Some of this gets into boundaries but I think you both have essentially the same problem. You are both stuck in a loveless marriage. You don't love this shell of a unrepentent wayward wife you have before and she's not in love with you either. It DOES take patience and time to PULL a former wayward wife out of the fog and back into the relationship but progress SHOULD be occuring over time.

What attracted her to you when you first started dating??? It may be tough with three kids...but going out like you did back then really worked for my wife and I. I didn't hound her about recovery; but we DID discuss it...more and more...over time.

Is she allowing you to spend 15 hours or more a week in undivided, undistracted time within which you can meet her needs????

Will she go to a MB weekend???

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - Counselor to Counselor...I fully understand the commitment it takes to build your own private practice. Her affair is NOT your fault. It's NOT about you. IF your wife had a problem with you, the time you spent working or whatever...she should have come to you with that problem. You couldn't have fixed that which was unacknowledged.

ooops...posted under my wife's name...sorry.

Mr. W

p.s. - you may be experienced at resolving and settling conflict; however, recovery differs. In early recovery you must carefully pick and choose carefully your opportunities to actually create conflict and try to resolve it using POJA and conflict resolution skills. It's OK to say to her that eventually, EVENTUALLY, you refuse to remain in a loveless marriage.