LovingAnyway,

I'm not sure I understand your response, but I would like to if you're willing to share and expand a bit. [color:"green"] I read this post when you first responded. Again, I went through my hesitancy dance within...back and forth. I know you know this dance...you wrote about it inside you. [/color]

I truly loved my wife and was wholely committed to her and to our marriage. I would have given or sacrificed anything to make it work. I walk today so confused. I truly don't know what happened. [color:"green"] To me, this is the scariest part of your posts...and I know it has happened to others...where they conclude, they don't know why their spouse divorced them. Guess that's part of my hesitancy dance...take what used to be my biggest fear (DH divorcing me) and add present fear of not understanding why. See, I'm thinking this is a lesson for me, through your sharing...just because I've been working on accepting what I cannot know (until someone else shares) doesn't mean I'm there yet. [/color]

One day I think she is the sweetest most delicate thing I have ever known, the woman I fell in love with. The next day I think think she is the coldest and most conning and manipulative and decieving and uncaring and untrustworthy and hateful person I have ever known. I don't know which is the truth, I truly don't. [color:"green"] What I've noticed in your posts is a lot of DJs...and they seem to go right by...assuming about your first ex's call, your third ex...and these are thought-DJs, not necessarily ones from speaking. In your head, you have a permission to assume, as if you know, which means you give yourself permission to assume about yourself, as well, not know. That two-way street is always in play...what you do to others, you will do to yourself. What you do not do to yourself, you won't do for others.

Now, I know DJs 'cuz I lived most of my life FROM assumptions, not truth. Living from truth rocks, hands down. Hey, I know that ground...all the tiny false payoffs and the awful waffling back and forth, switching assumptions...and the intense pain you posted from on the day of your third divorce wouldn't have stopped me from sharing the DJs I saw...because my experience was posting here in total pain and JustLearning and Pepperband pointing out my DJs, my choices, and I believe, that's what changed my life and saved my marriage.

Guess I'm still sorting through my hesitancy, TD. [/color]

My response the other day was a remark of pain. I hate what I've gone through. [color:"green"] When we hate what we experience, how do we learn from it? Now, in my head, I know that nothing to an extreme is God's direction...that 180 from 0 is still sick...so your hating what you've experienced, and my extreme gratitude for it, seem like those two extremes...somewhere in the middle would be a healthy perspective and a growth-filled perception. Would you consider you hate feeling pain...and know that pain is necessary for growth? [/color] I've been through it twice before and they just don't compare whatsoever. I have never been so serious and so committed and so totally devoted and so totally broken. [color:"green"] Are you saying you weren't as committed and serious in your first two marriages, the second one to the mother of your children? [/color] I can't honestly tell you what I really feel or think about it.

[color:"green"] I hear you feel pain, feel confusion, shut-out of a process incredibly important to yourself, children and life...and you don't know what to make of it, how to think of x3W right now. I think that's great sharing...and knowing what you feel right now (it changes) and what you choose to think about it. JMO. [/color]

But what could I have done by going to court? I can't object. The sad truth is I have no say in my ex wife's choice to divorce. I had no say in her choice to separate. I had no say in her choice to refuse to speak to me since. I had no say in her choice not to even give me a reason. I have had no say or options in any of this. I think to go would have only brought more pain. [color:"green"] My post to you was to consider what you act from...the way you worded your previous post was that because of who x3W was, you wouldn't choose to do...which puts you in the dependent position in your perspective...rather than owning you choose. Now I hear you saying you chose not to be present because you didn't want to experience MORE pain. That's a reasonable boundary about you, around you...not based on who someone is or what they may or may not feel. Something inside me said that this is the life lesson you've been desiring your whole life.

I could be wrong. I don't believe it's not about right or wrong. When we make our choice of action based on possible response, we are living in fantasy...we are making our choices dependent on others'...and our DJs have a field day in promoting this fantasy, and there are a lot of consequences living this way. When we base our choice of action from our own code, our boundaries around ourselves, and let go the outcome, then we insure one thing...that we are not betraying ourselves. We have clear lines and hold ourselves to them...so we can experience incredible freedom and real responsibility...not all the loops and tangles of fantasy responsibility. We find and know our part.

Ownership, not blame. Opens the gates to reality, true intimacy. I believe you long for this with the deepest part of you...where you can thrive in your relationships, your life, within your self. [/color]

And I can't know what her reasons are, I really can't.

But what I do know is this. No matter what happened between us, her kids truly loved me and I truly loved them as if they were my own. Let me tell you the scene when I went to pick up my stuff after the told me to leave. She had her kids next door at her parents house. I asked if I could just tell her children bye. I promised her I would not say a word other than bye to them. She said no. I fell to the ground crying. I barely had the strength to get up and walk away.

[color:"green"] I felt your pain in your post...please know you are sharing your stuff (your thoughts, feelings, perceptions, beliefs, perspective). That's brave and true.

What I don't understand is you limiting your choices to her permissions...you can write to her children, could have chosen to walk over and say goodbye to them without her permission. You could talk about what choices your children have...in writing to her, emailing...talking about her. Through sharing, we heal. Takes time. A lot of sharing. We do heal.

If you believe x3W left you no choices...total attack on your marriage through divorce, then you are saying the partner you choose has all the power. Not true. You are half of every relationship you have on this earth. Half the power...that's your limit. When you choose to limit yourself through others (they will think/feel/believe--DJs), then you are the one harming the relationship through assumptions, creating a lot of pain and fear inside yourself, not the other person. That you control...not the other person. [/color]

Then I had to go to a hotel room and face and start thinking about how I was going to explain to my own children how I was going to tell them that yet another "mom" in their lives was turning her back on them as well. They loved her too. They loved her children too. They talk about her and about her children to this day. I have tears rolling down my face right now thinking about my children's pain and about her children and the fact that I will likely never see them again and that she will not even give me the courtesy of telling me that they passed school or if they are ok. See for a long time I wrote letters and just begged her to tell me how the kids were doing. She has not so much as asked how my kids were.

And so I don't know the truth about what happened between us. I am too hurt to discern it right now. But what I know is that when an adult can so cold heartedly turn their back on other children they know loves them and doesn't even care about it, then I can confidently say that person doesn't even deserve my time to make an appearance in court.

[color:"green"] Again...your appearance in court wouldn't have been about her...only you. If being there to witness the actual death of your marriage (finality, closure) would help in your own healing...seating yourself in reality in that way...help you to get through the unreal sense of this very fast marriage and divorce...then that would have been an act of SELF care and love to go. Not about her. Not about her, what she may or may not deserve.

When you spend your focus on others, trying to figure out their stuff...their whys...then you miss your own. Three times, three marriages, I really want you to focus on you and your own whys and why nots. Your permissions and habits...your LBs and ENs...so you hold reality with both hands. Will not change others...will totally transform your life experience. [/color]

If that's not what you meant, I do want to understand, I really do. I appreciate opinions including those that are critical of me and my choices and actions.

[color:"green"] I'm allergic to the word critical, criticism...I was a hypercritical person...stands to reason I'm gonna fear choosing to act that way. The middle ground is asking if you would choose to see yourself, your choices and actions, differently, through choosing a different perspective, different actions. Not critical...not my way or the highway...only way. New way. Another road you may love walking down. [/color]

I know that I am in a state of pain and I know that breeds poor logic and choices and so I am interested.

[color:"green"] Knowing what you're feeling (pain) is healthy. Knowing where that pain is coming from (tracing the signal/emotion back to the belief that is sending it) is a great choice. Rather than reacting to what you feel...act from what you choose to believe, far healthier. What is logic, btw? Is it "If I hit myself in the head, I'll feel angry, have a bruise and rue the day I did it?" Is that logic? What if you laughed, felt embarrassment, not anger? Would that be illogical?

And no, I don't know where that question came from. Sure wasn't where I was going, uhm, logically. [/color]

And don't think for a moment that I don't wish there was some way that I could fight for my marriage. I pray every day. I pray for my ex wife still. I wish that I had faith and felt that there was hope, but I don't know that I can honestly say that I feel that way.

[color:"green"] You know, I have no idea of whether fighting for your third marriage is what is healthy or a unhealthy. Wasn't this a very short relationship? What do you pray for your x3W? I'm not being critical by referring to her as x3W (not of her or you). I'm being real. She is your third wife...third woman you've vowed to and been divorced from. My intent is to reflect that reality...because part of what I'm working out is which marriage would be healthy to fight for? [/color]

Everytime I felt progress was made, I get slapped in the face. [color:"green"] Judging progress of a relationship can be distraction from understanding your choices right now (and by that, I meant back then right now. Oh, crud.) It's the beliefs behind the actions I'm asking about...not the actions. When you felt slapped...can you trace that signal (anger, pain and fear) back to what belief it came from? [/color] I prayed for a Christian to be put in her path. [color:"green"] Purifying your prayers may well change your life, also. When you direct God (put a Christian influence in her path and make her vulnerable to another human's influence based on their Christian belief) is directing. Not praying. Again...not bad or wrong...get behind what you're asking for to the meat of your desire...you wanted your x3W to change her mind, soften her heart, stop taking harmful actions...you wanted clarity...pray for clarity...you want to do your half...pray for your half...and lift her up, as the whole, complete, marvelously made creation of God, to God, through your heart...period. No directing...no solving/fixing...taking what is God from God...for he reaches for every one of his creations every day.

If you back up and recognize that part of God's design is a person allows or disallows other human influence...you can't put a powerful person to influence someone else...that would come from your belief if only YOU were more something, then she would have reacted, chosen differently. Super painful, untrue, unreal belief. I had that one...for about 40 years or so. Until I learned that God designed us with inherent choice...even choosing how much another influences or not...setting whom, the level of influence...by choice, right now. Wow.

Understanding how much you wanted to be a major influence on your x3W...that's awareness...really healthy awareness. Not bad or wrong...acknowledging you wanted through anyone, even through God, for her to change...tells you that your focus was where it had no control...not on you. Which made her more powerful than she was in your stuff...because you gave your power away. [/color] A Christian was and she ended up saved. Do you know what happened next? That Christian a few days later stood in favor of divorce and encouraged me to not write letters and not seek reconciliation and told me that I should stop wanting to know how her children were doing (note I'm not calling her or harassing her or showing up, I would write a letter every so often asking how they were doing, send a card for Christmas, mother's day, etc.). [color:"green"] God answered your prayer...he showed you your direction's consequences...not you doing it...him choosing...because he loves you and wants you to see how much you want to control and that you have NO control over others...not their influence on each other, their choices, nothing. Same for all of us on this planet. And I very much struggled with control. Why we let the outcome go...and do not act to manipulate it...because it's not real, it's not respectful and it's one long downward spiral. Let Go and Let God isn't a slogan, it's a truth.

You know what got in the way of my relationship with God again and again? Others. You know what really helped my relationship with God? Others. I had to be aware of my own choices, my own focus, to see where I worshipped my DH instead of God...my parents...and choose differently. And be aware of others' stuff...not as my doing...to know the gift of being shared with...so I could hear God. [/color] In a confrontational meeting with that person, I asked what they believed the Biblical basis for divorce was in our case and she said it was to live in peace, since my wife was in peace without me that was Biblical grounds for divorce. Every time I get my hopes up, I get slapped. Every step forward gets returned with step after step backwards.

[color:"green"] IMO, Sharing is not convincing others what they believe, think, feel or perceive is wrong...it's sharing our stuff and respectfully agreeing to disagree.

That way, we won't get trapped in rhetoric...proving wrongness through our own interpretation of scripture leaves the door open for other believers to prove their rightness through feelings. Peace is like love, TD...it's a choice, which, when we act on it, results in feelings of peace. Feelings cannot tell us we are just, right or safe...the Holy Spirit resonates within us for guidance through our beliefs. Yeah, we can experience like a split nanosecond into a feeling. [/color]

And I try to look forward. I know my pain is great and I am broken in many ways. [color:"green"] You've shared this before, in other posts...your belief that you are broken, fixing yourself. What books have you been reading to guide you? How exactly are you fixing yourself and what makes you think you are really broken, or in what ways? You are working on trust...and my suggestion is that you work on trusting God first, then yourself, then others. If you think you're broken, then you won't be able to trust yourself, will you? Would you consider for every time you betrayed yourself, choosing your actions based on possible response of others, you broke your own self-trust? So each action you take based on your own code would be a step to rebuild your trust? Since what you do for yourself determines what you will do for others...would you then rely on God to know you will get to where you will trust others to be who they are? [/color] I look for hope, I've just yet to find it. [color:"green"] Hope is a choice. A really wise choice. We are taught to scour the earth for evidence of hope, love, trust...how's that working for you? [/color] Thanks for taking the time to post and I hope you'll expand on what you've said because I didn't fully understand it.