You know even when the kids are older they have a hard time grasping all of this.

DD drove home with me after the game (didn't want to take the bus...long story) So we talked on the way home about what's going on and such. I treid to tell her that her dad does love her. And she just kept saying no he doesn't. He hasn't come to very many of my soccer, swim meets or softabll games. He had told her he would be there this past Monday and never showed. He didn't show up today either. Makes me want to ring his neck.

We talked about the affair and how I would still like to work on my M. She was very angry about that. Mom HE LEFT US... HE DOESN''T CARE ABOUT US.
He won't change and he will just hurt us again. She also told me don't let him think you are waiting for him like a doormat. Just get the D over with.

Now I'm thinking am I going to lose the respect of my DD's because I want to work on my M.

I told her I still love daddy... he was a good man he's just making really poor choices right now. And Daddy would have to come back very remorseful and ready and willing to do the hard work. People can change if they want to. She thinks I'm looney.

Am I wrong and crazy to want to save this?

Still

You are wrong to expect her to have your POV. You are the W and she is the daughter choosing to protect you.

Let her know you love her care and need to protect. Don't minimize it. Let her know that her candid opinions are being and will be given proper consideration. That her POV is important.

What you need t/d is NOT share your hopes vs hers. She is hurting for you. U R both on the same side. Don't estrange her.

Let her know that you appreciate her need to be swift. You though are weighing that with being complete. That your actions must be thought through carefully. It may end in a D or not. Right now you are still out weighing the options and her input is valuable.

That should suffice for now. In the meantime work on getting your mind and heart in sync. You can ask for her assistance on this also.

Btw, she knows her dad doesn't care like he should. Don't deny that. She trusts you. Do NOT betray that trust in defending the WS to his children.

JMHO,
L.

still,

I agree with Orchid on the vast majority of what she said. Your DD is a smart girl and is no longer a little child, and she can tell that her father is not behaving in the way that a loving father does (i.e., a loving father is truthful, does not leave, is dependable, etc.). Thus, it is not reasonable for her to SEE her father behaving in an immoral, unparental way and then have her mother tell her that what she SEES happening is not really happening!! Can you see how that would be confusing and painful to her??

What WOULD be reasonable is for her to express her pain/anger at being hurt by her father, to express her pain/anger at his choice to break up her family, to express her pain/anger at his lack of attendance at her games, to express her pain/anger at his lack of interest in HER and her life and what hurts her...and then to have her mother say, "DD, I hear you saying that the way your father treats you hurts you. I hear you saying that his choices make you angry and bring pain to you. And I even hear you saying that you are upset with the way that he has treated me!! And I wanted to tell you that what you're feeling is completely NORMAL and REASONABLE, because it is not right for a man to leave his children and expect them to not be hurt. It's not moral for a husband to leave his wife for another woman or for a dad to leave his child. What goes on between your dad and I is 'our' relationship and as you know you don't know everything about 'our' relationship anymore than I know everything about the relationship you and your dad have...cuz that's between you and him. But I can really understand what you're saying and I think you are very smart to discern these things on your own!!"

The reality is that love is a CHOICE and a BEHAVIOR, and right now your WH's choices and behaviors are not "loving" toward your DD...and she needs someone who will validate that what she sees happening is NOT RIGHT. For example, you might say, "I don't believe the way your dad is acting is typical of him, but yeah--right now he's not really acting very loving toward you is he? That must hurt you like HECK!" and then give her the opportunity to talk to someone! It doesn't always have to be this great, moral lesson you know. Sometimes a kid just needs to know that what they think/feel is "understandable"...and still, if he is lying to her and blowing her off and doesn't care about how he's hurting her, then IN REALITY right now he is not ACTING in a loving way!! So if she's angry/hurt about that, she has a right to be!!!

I suspect you are trying to "cover" for your WH's poor choices and "cover" for your DD so she doesn't feel as much pain...but the natural consequence of having a parent ignore you, blow you off, and lie to you is that you are HURT. The fact is that your WH is REALLY damaging his relationship with his DD, and it is not loving of you, dear still, to deny him the chance to experience the consequence of his choices!! If he were to experience her hurt and pain and anger--and realize that it is from HER and a direct result of how he has chosen to treat her--he might more quickly mend his ways and treat her better! But by standing in the way and "covering" for him and not calling his bad behavior exactly what it is, then your WH is denied the opportunity to experience what he needs to experience in order to grow.

So validate your DD, and step out of the way so your WH is allowed to experience her hurt and pain--so he can GROW. It is the natural consequence of his choices to be a bad dad--and he needs to experience it if he's going to choose it.

Your faithful friend,



CJ

CJ, Orchid

Thanks so much for replying. Just to let you know I didn't include all of our conversation. I do let her know that it is okay to be angry and hurt... yesterday maybe I was doing old habits and covering for her dad. I just wanted her to know that at one time he was a very loving man. And if he choses he can become that man again.

I don't expect her to have my POV on wanting her dad back, She has been crushed just like I have been. And I think it is affecting her more because at one time they had a very close relationship.

I guess I was just trying to explain my reason for wanting her dad back if he were to be remorseful.

He disappointed her again today. She had a game and he didn't show. She doesn't want me to say anything. What kills me is I remember him telling me how hurt he used to be when his dad didn't show up for his games. She says she doesn't care but I know she does.

Oh I just want to pound some sense into his fogged out brain.

Still

Now this is what I would let him know. Remind him that his actions sure sound like what his dad did to him. Hm.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

You gave us your reasons for telling her (your daughter), you need to make sure she understands your reasons and not coming to a different conclusion due to misinformation. Remember also, she is still a child so she may not be able to digest the info in the same manner.

JMHO,
L.

Orchid,

Even though I'm in plan B I should let him know?

This is what I would e-mail him if it's okay to do

WH,

I just need to let you know that DD is very hurt and disappointed that you didn't come to any of her games this week. She was expecting you to be there on Monday. She was also upset that last week you came during the last 2 innings when she wasn't even playing.

I remember you telling me how hurt you were that your Dad didn't make any of your games... remember how that feels?

Still

Well some may disagree but this communication is not about you or him, it is about your daughter. Is she part of your plan B items? For me plan B excluded communication on mail, money and child visitation (son was 6 at the time). On those subjects I did either VM or e-mail.

I would word your e-mail something like:

WH,

I just need to let you know that DD is very hurt and disappointed that you didn't come to any of her games this week. She was expecting you to be there on Monday. She was also upset that last week you came during the last 2 innings when she wasn't even playing.

I recall you saying me how hurt you were that your Dad didn't make any of your games... can you help her cope with that same kind of disappointment?

Thanks,
BS

L.

Still, I communicated with my WH via email when it was in referece to our DS. I never discussed me or him, just finances and our son.

I did get an intermediary, but I didn't necessarily need it for discussion about DS, just to detach from WH myself.

I think that parents need to be aware of the effect their decisions have on the kids. You are there to know what your decisions do, he is not.

JMHO, but I feel that communication with him reagarding your DD would be enabling him...it is not your job to foster the relationship between him and your DD...

I understand that she is hurt and she has right to be; however, this is between her and him...

Sometimes you have to know when to stop putting the pillow under WH's butt so that he can fall in it!

I will continue to think about this.

I can see both sides of the issue and agree with both. Can he be that much in a fog that he can't even see this? Yes I guess he can becasue just thinking back on things he said to myoldest DD around Christmas time.

I know my WH and he will twist this around to make it my fault and be very defensive. He will point out that I should be explaining to her he has to work blah blah blah. Things that I would normally do for my H. The thing is she does see him (also in the past) getting out of work for hockey and his own sports.

I think I will see how she is doing in the morning and Saturday I ahve IC and discuss it there.

I just think he will see this as an attack and not how it is meant to be.

Still

I remember Jennifer telling me that if the kids had something they wanted to say, I could help them write a letter to WW. Like you, I could argue this one either way.

SDGuy,

I've decided that my WH needs to strep up to the plarte with his relationship with DD17.

The more I thought of it the more I realized that the person who he is today would just place the blame on me. I am already dealing with enough... this is his problem,

Plus the fact that DD17 doesn't want me to say anything to her dad.... right now my allegiance is with her, She knows I would move mountains for her and her siblings. I think she wants to see if WH moves his butt to the plate and puts her first. She knows she can talk to me anytime about anything,
She also knows i love her dad and I want our family whole.... but not with the way he is behaving now.

What is sad is that WH is almost to the point of losing this lovable young lady, all for a wh*re. When i got home tonight... mom don't look in the fridge or here because I'm working on your mothers day present. I wouldn't hurt this child for anything in the world.

I'm still commited to working on this if WH is willing to step up to the plate. If it doesn't happen all I know is I lost someone who lies adn cheats and shows no remorse. He loses a wife who would forgive and is willing to work hard on her M. He loses the respect og his children. He gets a woman who has cheated on 2 husbands. Who is the real loser.

Still

PS
Sorry for the long post.

Still,

Ithink you are right on the mark.

Your post above shows a strength and a bit or rightous anger that I have not seen from you in a while.

It is Good to see!

It sounds to me like the darkness of Plan B may be starting to pay off for YOU. Which is the POINT!

Keep it up!

Still...you've got a wonderful daughter...and you sound stronger today.

Happy Mother's Day (early) to you!

((((still)))

LS

I agree with Bugs...now that's a great change in you...you are sounding really strong and healthy...

that's what I was saying about using your anger to your advantage! Make it work for you!

Kudos! Pat yourself on the back!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bugs, LilSis, Rin

Happy Mothers Day to all of you also...you are wonderful women and your children are very lucky.

Will post more later got to go to IC

Do I really sound stronger?

Still

Doesn't this sound stronger to you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll state the obvious (to all of US I'm sure), there are those strong days, and then there are those yucky days. EVER SO SLOWLY, waaaaay too slowly, there are more strong days than yucky days, and fewer yucky moments in the midst of the strong days.

You posted that on a strong day! Remember when there were NO strong days???

I'm to a point now where the yucky days are the exception, not the rule. They are still there, but the scale is tipping. Every strong day is one more weight added to the RECOVERED side of that scale.

I think we are all getting there, are we not?

Happy Mother's Day to you Still. You sound much more grounded now. You sound like you are beginning to get that you cannot control your WH, not even for your children. However, you do what is best for them and reassure them that they can come to you.

Yes I guess I am stronger. At least last night and today.

Alot of things are way out of my control. Mistakenly drove by MOW house and it looks like a wedding party was at her house. Bride outside and bridemaids. Now I'm thinking the WH is probably going to a wedding today. Got to wonder if he'll think of our wedding day or be dreaming of his wedding to her someday.

Not going to let that occupy my mind too much today. had a great session with IC. Got to discuss how at times I feel I may have caused my WH to be the way he is. And also how I wish I could help him , but know I can't. I am coming to grips with many things I have done wrong in my M. I look back and feel really ashamed of some of the things I did. It's in the past and I can learn not to act that way anymore. I think I have matured and grown through all of this. IC also says that to just be there for DD and encourage her to express herself to her dad. And when she says it won't change anything let her know it may not but it will help her getting it off her chest.

I still have hope and pray that my wish of WH coming home ready to work on our M. I will not let that stop me from continuing to grow and heal.

LilSis... I'm hoping that the yucky days get fewer and fewer also. And I do think no contact is helping.

Still

Still (and SL):

I have a confession to make. I wake up every morning and think of WH. I hate that. He is the first thing that pops into my mind when I roll over and hit the alarm.

It occurred to me yesterday morning (in the shower and chastising myself for thinking of this man who thinks nothing of me) that this is my own withdrawal. If it is this difficult for me to untangle my heart, untangling the heart of a FWS must be brutal. And the WH has to CHOOSE this. I have had no choice in the matter; the choice was made for me.

And I wonder when my withdrawal began (start of Plan B?), or if I really am in withdrawal if I think of him all the time.

Grrrr....frustated with myself.

But I wonder, can you relate to this at all? or you, SL? I'd post in on our Killer Bee thread, but it would be a downer....

Thanks, guys. And happy Saturday. It is beautiful here; just waiting for the grass to dry enough to mow. Once a week isn't enough, but I can't fit it in with my schedule.

sis